Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #7 Pam Buckley & James P Freund

[ks-ch]

So prevailing North Atlantic + Baltic components suggest, maybe, French (?) heritage and therefore adding to the speculations -> French Canada?

 

[folieadeuxnola]

Joan has added the admixtures for Sumter County. She will get to other cases as she has time. She has also added an explanation of the process so there is some understanding as to why it takes so long sometimes to see results after a case has been accepted by the DNADoeProject.

Doe Upload.xlsx

YEZ.......... Thank You Joan & Carl

Happy Dance

Happy Dance

 

[folieadeuxnola]

So prevailing North Atlantic + Baltic components suggest, maybe, French (?) heritage and therefore adding to the speculations -> French Canada?

Admix charts are far from being able to determine if one is French Canadian or American.

Here is mine ..... 100% mixed up mutt

It goes back to migration patterns over the past several hundred years. Its not a sure shot of determining where you are from in modern times.

In all its very interesting to look at and read up on

 

[folieadeuxnola]

Jane & Jock

 

[victoriarobinson642]

I can see why people thought they were related-they have very similar backgrounds.

 

[T rex]

I agree 100%. They don't have to give us an update at all. It's not like we're entitled to one or something. The DDP is our best chance at solving this case. I would love to see these people identified (at least one of them). Through all the theories, opinions and speculation it's been a while since any new facts were injected into this case. I guess since they informed us that the victims are not related. It would be great to know their ethnicity or anything else they can give us but they are our best shot and I'll let them do this however they see fit. I'll just take whatever they give when they give it and be grateful.

This is to the best of my knowledge a post I made last night. I have now received an alert notifying me this post was removed for " dissing" on the DNA Doe Project ??? What the hell???

I wasn't doing anything but saying good things about them.
I also noticed that not all the posts in that discussion were deleted including some from moderators. When I read the rules of this forum it didn't say anything about there being two sets of rules so now I give you a reason to delete this post unlike the last time you did it.

JUST PLAIN WRONG

 

[T rex]

I can see why people thought they were related-they have very similar backgrounds.

Yes indeed they have very similar backgrounds. Does anyone think this diminishes the possibility that they met on the road? I'm thinking that it is now more likely that they knew each other beforehand , perhaps from the same community.

 

[Warwick1991]

So prevailing North Atlantic + Baltic components suggest, maybe, French (?) heritage and therefore adding to the speculations -> French Canada?

Could also be Scottish or Irish, with the history of Viking invasions reflected in the mixture of ancestors - North Atlantic and Baltic. And, of course, possibly French Canadian as many have thought..

 

[leilarose68]

Jane & Jock

View attachment 263385 View attachment 263386

Thank you for posting folieadeuxnola and thank you SO much for so kindly posting the admixtures, Joan (the volunteer who runs the chart)! I know we all greatly appreciate the time you took to add all those admixtures! Admixture doesn't tell us anything definite but it's so wonderful to have any kind of information like this about them (and other Does). I'm kind of emotional seeing these pie charts after so many years of wondering who these people might have been. Thanks again

 

[victoriarobinson642]

Could also be Scottish or Irish, with the history of Viking invasions reflected in the mixture of ancestors - North Atlantic and Baltic. And, of course, possibly French Canadian as many have thought..

My info says North Atlantic as well. I think it's basically this area.

 

[retrometro]

Whoa!! The admixtures are super-interesting even they don't tell us a definite country of origin. Thank you for the update!

 

[AliceInPain]

What a nice surprise! Thank you DDP!

I have no idea what it actually means, but looking at the other UIDs on there, some look very similar to theirs.
Compare Jane to Chattanooga JD for example, they are very close.
I wonder if this is typical admixture for caucasian north americans?
I'm half Swedish, half Russian/Finnish and show equally large amounts of North Atlantic and Baltic. A little similar to Bedford Jane Doe.

 

[Giuc0]

DNA determination and understanding is way beyond my paygrade I'm still lost on my maternal side so no help here in explaining.

DNA Geek is educational .... read it but hear the teacher from Charlie Brown talking in my head

I am trying to comb databases about enforced disappeared in South America. You only need Spanish, no DNA education.

I prefer languages over DNA.

But the available databases about detained-disappeared is such that I can't manage it alone.
There are more than 20000 names, and I give a conservative number.
Keep in mind that it was a couple, so double sorting out: if only one sex were mentioned, you could quietly eliminate 50%ca of folks in the database as possible match because they would not be of the right sex.
But one man and one woman means double sorting out!

 

[AliceInPain]

This slide show was recommended, compare "colonial american" to the example chart of an Italian on the previous slide.
GEDmatch: Ancestry Composition Tools

 

[Giuc0]

Jane & Jock

View attachment 263385 View attachment 263386

Can it also mean enforced disappearance in a Latin American country?
Most of them during dictature share a similar background.

There are of course people of peasants, farmers... but most known and notified detained-disappeared in South America share a similar background. At least countries with a military dictature like Argentina and Chile.

Colombia and Venezuela are a whole other ballgame when we look at the cases of enforced disappearances.

Central America and Colombia during the '70 and '80, that's a different story!
Most of them were peasants, farmers, of First Nations...

I don't say that all detained-disappeared in South America are similar to our couple, but most do.
Conversely, in Central America, most cases have zero ethnic similarity with our couple.

 

[Giuc0]

This slide show was recommended, compare "colonial american" to the example chart of an Italian on the previous slide.
GEDmatch: Ancestry Composition Tools

Thank you for this helpful tool!
However, I'll let DNA geeks do it.

Meanwhile, I can do the leg work for French and Spanish languages cases to compare and see if they can be a match.
Furthermore, I haven't found any central base dedicated to detained-disappeared in South America. It would had been very useful in countries involved in Operation Condor, as quite a number of people left only to find another Dirty War: I found a hefty background of Chilean detained-disappeared in Argentina, or Argentinian which remains were found in Uruguay that you can find the same case in the country of origin and the country of destination. Fortunately, I found them with similarities bordering on copy-paste that I don't have to sort out which source is right and which is inaccurate. One less problem to solve!


ETA: maybe we can suggest DDP to compare with cases of enforced disappearances in South America?

 

[Giuc0]

Yes indeed they have very similar backgrounds. Does anyone think this diminishes the possibility that they met on the road? I'm thinking that it is now more likely that they knew each other beforehand , perhaps from the same community.

For me, there are so many people of the same or similar ancestry in America that it can not be a rule-in nor a rule-out.

Both are equally possible.


If our couple were found in the Southern Morocco, or Sfax in Tunisia, that would had been a very different story!
In such case, I would had been very confident about your hypothesis.

In a small country for superficy and population compared to Americas, I would had been confident that they already knew each other before being found together.

But for Northern and Southern America, I don't believe that one possibility prevails over the other.

The fact that so many people in North and South America share a similar admixture makes me think that the possibility of metting each other by case is much more plausible.

So, IMO, your possibility is a 50-50.

 

[Giuc0]

Ok, I found a little bit of a problem with the website Espacio Memoria Memorias de Vida y Militancia - Espacio Memoria

I can find only about people who have been detained-disappeared at the ESMA.

If the detained-disappeared was in another CCD (Centro Clandestino de Detención, clandestine detention center), not at the ESMA, no wonder you don't find a peep!

Espacio Memoria belongs to the ex-ESMA museum btw.

 

[T rex]

For me, there are so many people of the same or similar ancestry in America that it can not be a rule-in nor a rule-out.

Both are equally possible.


If our couple were found in the Southern Morocco, or Sfax in Tunisia, that would had been a very different story!
In such case, I would had been very confident about your hypothesis.

In a small country for superficy and population compared to Americas, I would had been confident that they already knew each other before being found together.

But for Northern and Southern America, I don't believe that one possibility prevails over the other.

The fact that so many people in North and South America share a similar admixture makes me think that the possibility of metting each other by case is much more plausible.

So, IMO, your possibility is a 50-50.

You may be right about that. Maybe all of us around here have more similar backgrounds than I realize.

 

[folieadeuxnola]

Could also be Scottish or Irish, with the history of Viking invasions reflected in the mixture of ancestors - North Atlantic and Baltic. And, of course, possibly French Canadian as many have thought..

That is petty much spot on, invaders settled into the West European countries many hundreds of years ago. Scotland, Ireland, France, UK and Germany. Eventually migrating in to America, Canada and Australia. Jane or Jock could absolutely be of French Canadian origin however the Gedmatch pie charts are so broad and goes back thousands of years its hard to determine. Ancestry has a more definitive breakdown into the specific regions will pinpoint down to the areas that one shares the most DNA with. All thou I look at those regions and ultimately think ... isotope ..lol and we know how well those have worked in the past 50/50 shot.