Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #7 Pam Buckley & James P Freund

[Warwick1991]

That is petty much spot on, invaders settled into the West European countries many hundreds of years ago. Scotland, Ireland, France, UK and Germany. Eventually migrating in to America, Canada and Australia. Jane or Jock could absolutely be of French Canadian origin however the Gedmatch pie charts are so broad and goes back thousands of years its hard to determine. Ancestry has a more definitive breakdown into the specific regions will pinpoint down to the areas that one shares the most DNA with. All thou I look at those regions and ultimately think ... isotope ..lol and we know how well those have worked in the past 50/50 shot.

From various pie charts out there, it seems that German ancestry would be labeled North-Central Europe instead of North Atlantic. So British Isles, Ireland, and Normandy would be more likely for North Atlantic.

 

[leilarose68]

Found this blog where someone posted their Canadian father's half-french admixture... looks similar to Jock and Jane's

French Canadians – Finding My Ancestors

"For someone who can be said to be 50% French, 25% Italian and 25% Ukrainian, you can see that deeper than that, his French people likely descend from Celtic tribes – you see this in the British Isles-y, Iberian Peninsula-y bit. "

 

[T rex]

Does anyone know if Frisian is considered Baltic?

 

[dotr]

Baltic states | History, Map, People, Languages, & Facts
Baltic states, northeastern region of Europe containing the countries of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, on the eastern shores of the [URL='https://www.britannica.com/place/Baltic-Sea']Baltic Sea.

[/URL]
The Baltic states: Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.

Regional Snapshot : North Atlantic Region
''North Atlantic region extends from Maine to Virginia and encompasses the marine coastlines of 11 states, as well as Vermont and the Connecticut, Delaware, Hudson and Susquehanna river watersheds. It varies from the largest city (New York City) to the smallest state (Rhode Island). This area is rich with history, culture and economic opportunities. It is characterized by several large scale geographic features including the Gulf of Maine and Cape Cod Bay and estuarine systems including Long Island Sound, New York Bight, Delaware Bay and Chesapeake Bay.''
rbbm.

 

[Warwick1991]

Does anyone know if Frisian is considered Baltic?

I think Frisian is a dialect that is mainly limited to the coastal Netherlands and adjacent areas of Germany and then Denmark. Not on the Baltic....

 

[Tighthead]

Baltic states | History, Map, People, Languages, & Facts
Baltic states, northeastern region of Europe containing the countries of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, on the eastern shores of the Baltic Sea.

The Baltic states: Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.

Regional Snapshot : North Atlantic Region
''North Atlantic region extends from Maine to Virginia and encompasses the marine coastlines of 11 states, as well as Vermont and the Connecticut, Delaware, Hudson and Susquehanna river watersheds. It varies from the largest city (New York City) to the smallest state (Rhode Island). This area is rich with history, culture and economic opportunities. It is characterized by several large scale geographic features including the Gulf of Maine and Cape Cod Bay and estuarine systems including Long Island Sound, New York Bight, Delaware Bay and Chesapeake Bay.''
rbbm.

I don’t think North Atlantic refers to the US in this context.

 

[Warwick1991]

Baltic states | History, Map, People, Languages, & Facts
Baltic states, northeastern region of Europe containing the countries of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, on the eastern shores of the Baltic Sea.

The Baltic states: Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.

Regional Snapshot : North Atlantic Region
''North Atlantic region extends from Maine to Virginia and encompasses the marine coastlines of 11 states, as well as Vermont and the Connecticut, Delaware, Hudson and Susquehanna river watersheds. It varies from the largest city (New York City) to the smallest state (Rhode Island). This area is rich with history, culture and economic opportunities. It is characterized by several large scale geographic features including the Gulf of Maine and Cape Cod Bay and estuarine systems including Long Island Sound, New York Bight, Delaware Bay and Chesapeake Bay.''
rbbm.

I think the various genetics companies use definitions of North Atlantic that differ from the way people in the US and Canada use the term. It is hard to find a uniform definition, but many include the British Isles, Iceland and Ireland. If someone can find a site with detailed definitions for DNA regions, it would be helpful...

 

[dotr]

I think the various genetics companies use definitions of North Atlantic that differ from the way people in the US and Canada use the term. It is hard to find a uniform definition, but many include the British Isles, Iceland and Ireland. If someone can find a site with detailed definitions for DNA regions, it would be helpful...

Not sure if this Ancestry article helps define the regions or not, but it might..fwiw
AncestrySupport
''List of AncestryDNA® Regions
More than 1,000 global regions make up the ethnicities displayed in our DNA test. As DNA science improves, the number of regions we test for (and the countries covered in each region) may change''

 

[Warwick1991]

Not sure if this Ancestry article helps define the regions or not, but it might..fwiw
AncestrySupport
''List of AncestryDNA® Regions
More than 1,000 global regions make up the ethnicities displayed in our DNA test. As DNA science improves, the number of regions we test for (and the countries covered in each region) may change''

Ancestry is very detailed, probably the most detailed. The North Atlantic region is used by GEDmatch, but I don’t have a GEDmatch guide.

 

[dotr]

Ancestry is very detailed, probably the most detailed. The North Atlantic region is used by GEDmatch, but I don’t have a GEDmatch guide.

Again, no idea if these links are any help..fwiw.
A Guide to Ancestry
Eurogenes Genetic Ancestry Project

 

[AliceInPain]

These are the only populations listed in the calculator used for Sumter Does.
So North Atlantic here includes pretty much all of Western Europe from top to bottom.

(Those are my numbers)

 

[Awsi Dooger]

What a nice surprise! Thank you DDP!

I have no idea what it actually means, but looking at the other UIDs on there, some look very similar to theirs.
Compare Jane to Chattanooga JD for example, they are very close.
I wonder if this is typical admixture for caucasian north americans?
I'm half Swedish, half Russian/Finnish and show equally large amounts of North Atlantic and Baltic. A little similar to Bedford Jane Doe.

Yes, I am seeing similarities all over the place, beyond the DNA Doe Network cases alone. The breakdown of slightly less than 50% North Atlantic and either side of 25% Baltic seems to be extremely common. In a quick Google I found this lady's chart which is very similar to Jock in particular:

Playing with percentages

She says she is 50% German and 50% colonial American mutt. But within the comments she emphasizes that German can be indistinguishable in the test results from Dutch and Scandinavian countries.

It's a 2013 post but her blog is still active so she might be a good one to ask.

Regardless, very thoughtful of DNA Doe Project to provide this. And I'm glad we spiced things up around here. The over/under on removed posts in a Sumter County Doe thread wouldn't have been particularly high.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Yes, I am seeing similarities all over the place, beyond the DNA Doe Network cases alone. The breakdown of slightly less than 50% North Atlantic and either side of 25% Baltic seems to be extremely common. In a quick Google I found this lady's chart which is very similar to Jock in particular:

Playing with percentages

She says she is 50% German and 50% colonial American mutt. But within the comments she emphasizes that German can be indistinguishable in the test results from Dutch and Scandinavian countries.

It's a 2013 post but her blog is still active so she might be a good one to ask.

Regardless, very thoughtful of DNA Doe Project to provide this. And I'm glad we spiced things up around here. The over/under on removed posts in a Sumter County Doe thread wouldn't have been particularly high.

Actually I was looking at the wrong chart. The one I linked was more similar to Jane, not Jock, in terms of percentages.

We have a pie chart but not numerical percentages. In doing a bit of research on the Eurogenes K13 Admixture, what I see on many specialized sites is users listing their numbers in each category, and then other users help interpret the numbers. For example, this site:

Eurogenes K13 calculator - yourDNAportalforum

I have looked at several sites like that. And the basic distribution of the Sumter County Does comes up quite frequently...slightly less than 50% North Atlantic, somewhere near 25% Baltic, and somewhere around 13% West Mediterranean.

Let me emphasize this is quick check of small sampling. But there is a distinct trend. Most of the users with that breakdown say their heritage is either United Kingdom or Germany.

Of course, that is generations past. The Sumter County Does could have been born and raised in North America but with European ancestry, like tens of million others

 

[ntt1]

Here is a Eurogenes K13 chart I found that is very similar to the one for Jock:

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

The person was of European descent with significant percentages estimated for the British Isles (Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England) and Baltic states/East Europe by MyHeritage and FTDNA.

Hard to make any comparisons or draw anything out of this, either way.

 

[Betty P]

Just weighing in here as an amateur genealogist. Have also followed the case several years.

One noteworthy part of the DNA Analysis (or ethnicity estimate) is that Jane's DNA shows a small percentage of American Indian ancestry. That's a very strong indicator that she was born in the US, possibly Canada. Most genalogy DNA databases draw their Native American DNA samples from people descended from tribes in the United States, primarily the southwestern US.

American Indian's don't have a history of migrating to other continents to live and raise families. So odds are very strong that Sumter Jane Doe's lineage is from the US. I can't imagine how she could be from a European, South American, Asian or similar region while having a DNA from American Indian ancestry.


JMO

 

[Tighthead]

Just weighing in here as an amateur genealogist. Have also followed the case several years.

One noteworthy part of the DNA Analysis (or ethnicity estimate) is that Jane's DNA shows a small percentage of American Indian ancestry. That's a very strong indicator that she was born in the US, possibly Canada. Most genalogy DNA databases draw their Native American DNA samples from people descended from tribes in the United States, primarily the southwestern US.

American Indian's don't have a history of migrating to other continents to live and raise families. So odds are very strong that Sumter Jane Doe's lineage is from the US. I can't imagine how she could be from a European, South American, Asian or similar region while having a DNA from American Indian ancestry.


JMO

I was wondering about that, but didn’t know if American Indian also included South American indigenous people.

I wouldn’t be shocked if after all of our speculation about Argentina, Quebec, Europe etc., they turn out to be born and raised in the lower 48.

 

[Betty P]

I was wondering about that, but didn’t know if American Indian also included South American indigenous people.

I wouldn’t be shocked if after all of our speculation about Argentina, Quebec, Europe etc., they turn out to be born and raised in the lower 48.

In Ancestry.com, the indigenous populations are classified according to certain parts of the US, Mexico, South American, etc. The largest databases for US indigenous groups on Ancestry are among southwestern and plains tribes. If they were from South America, their ethnicity estimates would probably have a greater percentage of American Indian percentage, with much less European DNA. The proportions would be opposite, if they had a strong database of South American indigenous DNA.


I don't recall what it was about this couple that made them appear to be from Europe. It's still possible they could be from Canada, though.

 

[retrometro]

I don't recall what it was about this couple that made them appear to be from Europe. It's still possible they could be from Canada, though.

Thank you for the insights, Betty P! I’ve always thought that the speculation about their ethnicity/place of origin was highly circumstantial at best. Even the French-Canadian claim (the origins of the Jacques/Jock name) was based on the report of a single person who didn’t contact LE until months after murders.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Regarding the DNA Doe Project file, I noted that once in a while the top cM drops from one update to the next. Not often but there are several examples.

What would cause that? Is that a user who opts out?

Also, the one aspect I miss from a year or so ago is the percentage of matches that DNA Doe Project cannot see. They used to include that every update on every case. It's a depressing number after the policy change, but at least the percentage was slowly going down. I remember watching from 83% to 82% and so forth. I wish they still had it, if not for every case maybe an estimate of the entire user base.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Switching away from DNA briefly, I'm still interested in exactly where the crime took place on Locklair Road. Last night I watched a YouTube video that had some information I'd never heard before. This guy referenced several articles from the Greenville News during the immediate aftermath. He said that the murders were actually several hundred yards away from the Locklair intersection, and not nearby.

The summary from law enforcement is that the killer drove several hundred yards down Locklair and apparently intended to commit the murders in a densely tree covered area further toward the center of Locklair, but was prevented from doing so by tall fences that blocked the road. So he forced the couple out and committed the murders right there at the side of the road. Then he used the pathway of a nearby tobacco hut to pull in and then back out, before speeding away.

I appreciate how much research this guy did. It makes sense because it seemed obvious to me when I visited Locklair last year that the topography had changed significantly since 1976. It didn't make sense for so many tall healthy pine trees to be in the center of Locklair on both sides, and nowhere else. The newspaper photo from 1976 clearly shows pine trees on both sides of Locklair.

Based on that video info I now believe the murders occurred in the area of this photo that is now wide open farmland, maybe just prior to where the dirt looks much darker. That would fit with the 400m estimate to I-95 from another recent video.

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Then over time the pine trees, tobacco stand and fencing were removed toward a farmland attempt that has not been overly successful, from the look of things.

This is the video with the info on the site of the murders, specifically from the 8 minute mark to the 9 minute mark. There is other good material as well, including a photo of the caskets being exhumed for DNA testing: