Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - Pamela Buckley & James Freund #10

[branmuffin]

Radial tires have been around for far longer than 60 years, but were still not as common in 1976.
Winter tires back then (called mud and snow tires), even radials, had a blocky open tread design, especially back in 1976. if you bought a 4 wheel drive truck new back then, it came with "mud and snow" tires, like the image of a 1976 Ford Bronco below. Eventually "mud and snow" tires evolved into all season tires (Ok for light snow, but a more closed tread design), winter tires (with a softer tread compound), and all terrain tires (for 4x4s that went off road).
But in 1976, the same snow tire that might be used in Pennsylvania or Colorado would also be the mud tire used on back roads of South Carolina. That's why I don't think the presence of these tires proved the van belonged to Jim or Pam though it could have,

We've done this subject to death, I think. We're getting into semantics now so for me the whole issue of tires is a dead one. Lets agree to disagree and move on to the subject of the vehicle and whether it belonged to either James or Pam or whether they were hitchhiking and met their worst nightmare.

My personal opinion, is that the vehicle belonged to them. I don't really care what the vehicle was and they either picked up a hitchhiker or got involved with some people from the area and ultimately were forced out of the vehicle and murdered. The way they were killed always get my brain whirring. They didn't just get shot, they were executed. The sequence of shots were deliberate, imo, and for some reason the killer chose not to obliterate their faces. I doubt that had anything to do with some altruistic notion to allow them to be identified by family members but rather had something to do with either sending a message to some unknown quantity or a message of mission accomplished.

I know that seems like I'm getting into conspiracy thinking but it just doesn't make sense to me. And to further the mystery if they were executed, then why? I know here on WS the majority of members always view the deceased as unfortunate victims of crime but sometimes we know that deaths occur because of criminal activity they were involved in. I'm not saying that's what occurred here but there's a reason that the weapon was found in the possession of a local and it had a storied history, none of which LE really seemed to follow.

 

[Betty P]

We've done this subject to death, I think. We're getting into semantics now so for me the whole issue of tires is a dead one. Lets agree to disagree and move on to the subject of the vehicle and whether it belonged to either James or Pam or whether they were hitchhiking and met their worst nightmare.

My personal opinion, is that the vehicle belonged to them. I don't really care what the vehicle was and they either picked up a hitchhiker or got involved with some people from the area and ultimately were forced out of the vehicle and murdered. The way they were killed always get my brain whirring. They didn't just get shot, they were executed. The sequence of shots were deliberate, imo, and for some reason the killer chose not to obliterate their faces. I doubt that had anything to do with some altruistic notion to allow them to be identified by family members but rather had something to do with either sending a message to some unknown quantity or a message of mission accomplished.

I know that seems like I'm getting into conspiracy thinking but it just doesn't make sense to me. And to further the mystery if they were executed, then why? I know here on WS the majority of members always view the deceased as unfortunate victims of crime but sometimes we know that deaths occur because of criminal activity they were involved in. I'm not saying that's what occurred here but there's a reason that the weapon was found in the possession of a local and it had a storied history, none of which LE really seemed to follow.

Looking back over the old articles from the days and weeks after their murder, local and state police believed the couple were

1 from out of town
and
2 driving a vehicle

The early theory, often repeated, was that the two picked up hitchhikers who murdered them, perhaps for their vehicle. Of course, the gun used in the murders was later found in a search of the vehicle of a local man. The decision regarding driving a vehicle was based on their grooming, cleanliness, clothing and condition of their shoes that led them to believe they weren't hitchhiking.

 

[Valiant]

My personal opinion is it’s quite likely one of them had a vehicle, whether it was the van or not. The vehicle could have been disposed of or sold with a fake ID as there would be no one to report it stolen.

But I don’t think the type of killing is what is usually associated with a robbery. It seems like they maybe crossed the wrong person. How? Of course drugs could have been involved.

I have to wonder if the local caught with the weapon was told to dispose of the gun and the car and only did part of the job.

 

[Betty P]

My personal opinion is it’s quite likely one of them had a vehicle, whether it was the van or not. The vehicle could have been disposed of or sold with a fake ID as there would be no one to report it stolen.

But I don’t think the type of killing is what is usually associated with a robbery. It seems like they maybe crossed the wrong person. How? Of course drugs could have been involved.

I have to wonder if the local caught with the weapon was told to dispose of the gun and the car and only did part of the job.

That was a big theory back in the day, but the investigation and autopsy revealed no trace of drugs in their systems or on their clothing. Another theory is that someone just wanted to steal their vehicle, which was probably either a van or truck.

 

[Cedars]

We've done this subject to death, I think. We're getting into semantics now so for me the whole issue of tires is a dead one. Lets agree to disagree and move on to the subject of the vehicle and whether it belonged to either James or Pam or whether they were hitchhiking and met their worst nightmare.

My personal opinion, is that the vehicle belonged to them. I don't really care what the vehicle was and they either picked up a hitchhiker or got involved with some people from the area and ultimately were forced out of the vehicle and murdered. The way they were killed always get my brain whirring. They didn't just get shot, they were executed. The sequence of shots were deliberate, imo, and for some reason the killer chose not to obliterate their faces. I doubt that had anything to do with some altruistic notion to allow them to be identified by family members but rather had something to do with either sending a message to some unknown quantity or a message of mission accomplished.

I know that seems like I'm getting into conspiracy thinking but it just doesn't make sense to me. And to further the mystery if they were executed, then why? I know here on WS the majority of members always view the deceased as unfortunate victims of crime but sometimes we know that deaths occur because of criminal activity they were involved in. I'm not saying that's what occurred here but there's a reason that the weapon was found in the possession of a local and it had a storied history, none of which LE really seemed to follow.

I agree with your points. This was more of a mafia-style execution than an ordinary robbery. The roadways of the US were not, and are still not, littered with bodies of young couples shot execution-style just for car theft, with no indication of sexual assault on the female (the usual motive for such murders, IMO).

Also, ensuring they were abandoned without ID, was IMO deliberate and it worked. Perhaps the killer knew they were not from the area and weren't in touch with their families?

And also your point about the killer(s) seemingly wanting them to be found, not attempting to hide the bodies at all, that's very unusual.

Recalling another case of recent DNA id, the parents of 'baby Holly' were killed around 1980, but their remains concealed in a remote wooded lot (they were found anyway). That case hasn't been solved but it's been suggested they were associating with a religious cult. Their car ended up being sold back to his mother - definitely strange goings-on, not just a case of random robbery.

Unfortunately, in this case we don't know why the two each went off from their family and friends, and never contacted anyone with so much as a postcard about where they were going or why. We don't know how they met or what drew them together or what they did for income, where they'd been staying, how they spent their time, etc, etc.

I think it's likely that they were targetted because the killer knew no one would miss them or identify them. They may have had a fair amount of cash, or as you say, perhaps got drawn into some kind of illegal activity and then were eliminated, rather than paid. I don't think they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and a different, local couple could just as easily have been the victims.

JMO

 

[T rex]

We've done this subject to death, I think. We're getting into semantics now so for me the whole issue of tires is a dead one. Lets agree to disagree and move on to the subject of the vehicle and whether it belonged to either James or Pam or whether they were hitchhiking and met their worst nightmare.

My personal opinion, is that the vehicle belonged to them. I don't really care what the vehicle was and they either picked up a hitchhiker or got involved with some people from the area and ultimately were forced out of the vehicle and murdered. The way they were killed always get my brain whirring. They didn't just get shot, they were executed. The sequence of shots were deliberate, imo, and for some reason the killer chose not to obliterate their faces. I doubt that had anything to do with some altruistic notion to allow them to be identified by family members but rather had something to do with either sending a message to some unknown quantity or a message of mission accomplished.

I know that seems like I'm getting into conspiracy thinking but it just doesn't make sense to me. And to further the mystery if they were executed, then why? I know here on WS the majority of members always view the deceased as unfortunate victims of crime but sometimes we know that deaths occur because of criminal activity they were involved in. I'm not saying that's what occurred here but there's a reason that the weapon was found in the possession of a local and it had a storied history, none of which LE really seemed to follow.

Only the person that made the statement about snow tires would know what they meant by it. They may just have been referring to what we now call mud grips but unless we could ask that person to clarify I have to agree with you, there's not much sense in racking our brains over it.

LE initially said they thought the vehicle at the crime scene was a station wagon or van. They used wheelbase measurements to come to this conclusion, so the only conclusion that I can come to is these measurements must rule out all other vehicles prior to 1976 except for a station wagon and van. I tried to narrow it down but wasn't able to. I once made a post on one of the threads over on city data asking for help but I wasn't satisfied with any of the replies that I got. Maybe this information is compiled somewhere and I just can't find it, I don't know. It's easier for LE because they have the exact measurements, we don't.

The main reason I don't believe it was a car jacking is simply because cars were too easy to steal back then. Someone that knew what they were doing could break the lock on a steering wheel (if it had a lock) and hot wire a vehicle in a minute or less. It's the exact opposite nowadays. Unless you're some kind of master hacker you need the keys in the ignition. That's why car jackings are up and car thefts are down.

When it comes to hitchhiking I think the first thing we need to do is get stereotypes out of our heads.it doesn't have to be some guy standing on the side of the road with his thumb out or a pretty little girl showing some leg, that's mostly just Hollywood. The reality is most hitchhikers could travel hundreds or thousands of miles without much walking or standing on the roadside just by being in the right place. A truck driver could take someone as far as possible, get on a cb radio and have their next ride lined up for them. Having said all this I do not believe Pam and James were hitchhiking (but it's possible). It's my opinion that they were probably traveling with someone that at least one of them knew and this person had a connection to the area and possibly the killers. They may have been one of the killers. In the 2021 press conference Sheriff Dennis was asked if he had any idea where Pam and James were going. It's a simple yes or no question that he did not answer.

All of this is just my opinion.

Although I don't agree with all the recent posts here I did like them all because I like that all of you are still discussing this case and have not forgot about Pam and James. Keep up the good work.

 

[Betty P]

I agree with your points. This was more of a mafia-style execution than an ordinary robbery. The roadways of the US were not, and are still not, littered with bodies of young couples shot execution-style just for car theft, with no indication of sexual assault on the female (the usual motive for such murders, IMO).

Also, ensuring they were abandoned without ID, was IMO deliberate and it worked. Perhaps the killer knew they were not from the area and weren't in touch with their families?

And also your point about the killer(s) seemingly wanting them to be found, not attempting to hide the bodies at all, that's very unusual.

Recalling another case of recent DNA id, the parents of 'baby Holly' were killed around 1980, but their remains concealed in a remote wooded lot (they were found anyway). That case hasn't been solved but it's been suggested they were associating with a religious cult. Their car ended up being sold back to his mother - definitely strange goings-on, not just a case of random robbery.

Unfortunately, in this case we don't know why the two each went off from their family and friends, and never contacted anyone with so much as a postcard about where they were going or why. We don't know how they met or what drew them together or what they did for income, where they'd been staying, how they spent their time, etc, etc.

I think it's likely that they were targetted because the killer knew no one would miss them or identify them. They may have had a fair amount of cash, or as you say, perhaps got drawn into some kind of illegal activity and then were eliminated, rather than paid. I don't think they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and a different, local couple could just as easily have been the victims.

JMO

I've always thought the method of execution to be somewhat unusual, perfunctory. Another suggestion that came up here WRT was when someone suggested the killer had military training. As I recall that opinion noted that 3 bullets for each victim, efficiently delivered, had maximium odds of killing the victims while only using 6 bullets. I can't recall who suggested this, but they said that's the way some LE and military were trained to kill. Two shots to the chest/torso to immobilize and the final kill shot to the head. It would be somewhat difficult to do in the dark on an unlit road.

Remember, too, the gun was found in the possession of a local drunk/problem maker, not exactly the type known for Mafia-style hits.

WS member Rich Kelly, who is verified LE, read through this case and noted that the police found the weapon, that means they found the killer or someone very close to him.

Identified! - Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - Pamela Buckley & James Freund #10

Good points @worldwatcher and reply as well @Betty P , I’ve thought about this quite a bit. It’s another of the many mind benders in this case. Had the weapon not been found locally, I’d be of the mindset that the traveler theory was more plausible. I remember writing earlier in the threads...

www.websleuths.com

Were Henry and/or his brother tied to some people involved in organized crime?

 

[worm]

I keep thinking that even as convenient to 95 as this is, that this killer was local and knew that 6 gunshots at night wouldn't draw a lot of attention.

 

[Cedars]

Remember, too, the gun was found in the possession of a local drunk/problem maker, not exactly the type known for Mafia-style hits....
Were Henry and/or his brother tied to some people involved in organized crime?

A trucker can be a useful courier, that's still how a lot of drugs are smuggled. Mid-70s was exactly when Miami became the established port for cocaine and marijuana smuggling into the Eastern US. Then it had to be moved north - today the best route per google is the I-95, wonder if that was true then?

I think it's far too late to nail down details, but I think there was a legitimate suspicion that Lonnie Henry got the gun from someone who didn't want to get caught with it like Henry, very stupidly, did. I think Henry lied about getting it from his brother - knowing his brother would cover his back. Seeing what the gun had been used for, why would Henry truthfully say who he got it from?

JMO

 

[Betty P]

A trucker can be a useful courier, that's still how a lot of drugs are smuggled. Mid-70s was exactly when Miami became the established port for cocaine and marijuana smuggling into the Eastern US. Then it had to be moved north - today the best route per google is the I-95, wonder if that was true then?

I think it's far too late to nail down details, but I think there was a legitimate suspicion that Lonnie Henry got the gun from someone who didn't want to get caught with it like Henry, very stupidly, did. I think Henry lied about getting it from his brother - knowing his brother would cover his back. Seeing what the gun had been used for, why would Henry truthfully say who he got it from?

JMO

They were able to trace the gun back to Durham, NC, stolen by a burglary ring. Small towns/cities being small, I have a feeling LE knew who might have been involved in the murder but didn't have enough evidence to prove it. When the identities of Pam and JP were revealed, the sheriff said there has long been a list of a couple of suspects and they would look into reopening the investigation again.

Such a shame the killer(s) were never caught, but it seems unlikely anything will happen.

 

[worm]

They were able to trace the gun back to Durham, NC, stolen by a burglary ring. Small towns/cities being small, I have a feeling LE knew who might have been involved in the murder but didn't have enough evidence to prove it. When the identities of Pam and JP were revealed, the sheriff said there has long been a list of a couple of suspects and they would look into reopening the investigation again.

Such a shame the killer(s) were never caught, but it seems unlikely anything will happen.

Sadly enough as it is, I must agree.

 

[T rex]

A trucker can be a useful courier, that's still how a lot of drugs are smuggled. Mid-70s was exactly when Miami became the established port for cocaine and marijuana smuggling into the Eastern US. Then it had to be moved north - today the best route per google is the I-95, wonder if that was true then?

I think it's far too late to nail down details, but I think there was a legitimate suspicion that Lonnie Henry got the gun from someone who didn't want to get caught with it like Henry, very stupidly, did. I think Henry lied about getting it from his brother - knowing his brother would cover his back. Seeing what the gun had been used for, why would Henry truthfully say who he got it from?

JMO

Florence SC was once a major distribution hub for illegal drugs coming up from Florida in large quantities. It had to be determined where everything was going and it then had to be broke down and repackaged. In the meantime there was no better place to keep it than Florence. It could continue north on I95 or it could head west on I20.

 

[T rex]

They were able to trace the gun back to Durham, NC, stolen by a burglary ring. Small towns/cities being small, I have a feeling LE knew who might have been involved in the murder but didn't have enough evidence to prove it. When the identities of Pam and JP were revealed, the sheriff said there has long been a list of a couple of suspects and they would look into reopening the investigation again.

Such a shame the killer(s) were never caught, but it seems unlikely anything will happen.

The brother Henry got the weapon from lived in Durham for many years. I think he was living there during the time in question. I can't really remember how I came to know this but if I do I will try and post a link sometime.

 

[Cedars]

Florence SC was once a major distribution hub for illegal drugs coming up from Florida in large quantities. It had to be determined where everything was going and it then had to be broke down and repackaged. In the meantime there was no better place to keep it than Florence. It could continue north on I95 or it could head west on I20.

Very interesting, thanks. That does make Sumter geographically close to drug smuggling operations.

I know nothing about the area but it doesn't seem to me like a region a young, fancy-free couple would choose to explore, especially in August. Coming from the north, I'd stick to coastal locations if I had a choice.

JMO

 

[T rex]

Very interesting, thanks. That does make Sumter geographically close to drug smuggling operations.

I know nothing about the area but it doesn't seem to me like a region a young, fancy-free couple would choose to explore, especially in August. Coming from the north, I'd stick to coastal locations if I had a choice.

JMO

And then there was Hurricane Belle that could also be factored in to the movement of people that night.

 

[Cedars]

And then there was Hurricane Belle that could also be factored in to the movement of people that night.

Wow, I'd never heard about that. So many people have dug up so much great info related to this case, yet it still eludes us. At most, only a few people ever knew what happened, and since it's been almost 50 years, they're probably gone.

JMO