Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #24

[sunflowers]

I'm with RD on this one.

From the side of the road it would take quite a few steps to get to the "pond", more steps than someone would want to take to dump a body. A dead body is heavvvvy.

I don't think she was found in the "wet" part.

how heavy would nancy's body be, do you think? if she normally weighed 120 pounds, do you suppose she's weigh closer to 200 pounds dead? even if bc is tall & an ironman, would it be difficult for him to carry her very far?

 

[raisincharlie]

how heavy would nancy's body be, do you think? if she normally weighed 120 pounds, do you suppose she's weigh closer to 200 pounds dead? even if bc is tall & an ironman, would it be difficult for him to carry her very far?

Why would she weigh any more dead than alive ?

 

[SleuthyGal]

how heavy would nancy's body be, do you think? if she normally weighed 120 pounds, do you suppose she's weigh closer to 200 pounds dead? even if bc is tall & an ironman, would it be difficult for him to carry her very far?

hee. No a 120 lb body continues to be 120 lb when dead...dead weight of course. Awkward, but still only 120 lbs. He was strong; he could lift her and probably not throw his back out.

 

[sunflowers]

Yep! And the green dress, the shoes, the red top, the black jogging bra...

and again (I keep harping on this) but was Nancy's body found wearing a bra of any kind and, specifically, a jogging bra? I know none of us know, but this remains uppermost in my mind.

absolutely significant, i agree.

 

[sunflowers]

hee. No a 120 lb body continues to be 120 lb when dead...dead weight of course. Awkward, but still only 120 lbs. He was strong; he could lift her and probably not throw his back out.

oh, LOL, i had no idea. so, he actually could have carried nancy out of the house to the car trunk, and from the car trunk to where he dumped her without wincing when he was walking & "searching" for Nancy.

makes sense that he carried her

 

[CyberPro]

Horrifying idea. we don't know when the kids normally woke up, but he absolutely wouldn't have taken them in the car while dumping their mother. i sure hope anyhow. that's unimaginable & unfathomable to me.

so, that would either speak to dumping nancy's body when doing his HT run around 4:20 a.m

OR leaving the kids at home & quickly driving over to the "dump site" closer to 7 a.m. Huge problem at that hour because it was light

I have considered and rejected the possibility that the dump was done after, say, 4AM. I even considered the possibility that she was not dumped until after LE did the "look around" in the home. Like she might have been in the trunk of the car and was dumped later, but if this were true, I would think even a rookie LE would be able to tell someone as being extremely nervous about the body being discovered while they were looking around.

I feel strongly that the dump was in the early AM hours, well before daylight, and probably followed by a quick stop by the convenient HT store to stock up on detergent.

Unless there was an accomplice, which I do not believe at the moment, the kids were left alone while this trip was completed. After some time passed, the extra trips to the HT were made, and the phone call. Then BC the "White Tornado" performs his mighty feats of house cleaning, laundry, partial car detailing while juggling 2 young children with one hand tied behind his back. No problem at all if you are IRON MAN!

CyberPro

 

[jilly]

Nope I think they are all 'working' pathologists. The volume and budget probably dictate that he do his share of cases, though probably fewer than the others since he has administrative functions in addition.

Thanks for that SG. I guess I'm just used to seeing Clarke's name in the Young case and Eric Miller.

 

[EntreNous]

Unfortunately not in this case. It takes at least a few hours after death (and up to 1 or 2 days), per Lawrence Kobaliski, for the hair banding to start in a cadaver's hair. Any hair that Nancy shed as she was either in the house or put in the trunk or dumped would not (yet) show this banding pattern. No banding pattern = can't prove whether head hair came from a corpse.

Who is that SG? I've never heard of him.

We were taught the banding can start in as little as a couple of hours, especially during warmer weather.

If she was killed after the party, say around 1 am or so and was dumped at around 4 am I would say that's certainly enough time for banding to start.

 

[SleuthyGal]

oh, LOL, i had no idea. so, he actually could have carried nancy out of the house to the car trunk, and from the car trunk to where he dumped her without wincing when he was walking & "searching" for Nancy.

makes sense that he carried her

Yes he could. Remember this guy trained for Ironman competitions...11+ hours of continuous hardcore exercise using every muscle in his body. Oh yeah, he could do it, and with adrenaline running as it surely was that night...no problemo!

 

[sunflowers]

Why would she weigh any more dead than alive ?

i've always thought that expression "dead weight" meant that somehow in death, our bodies became heavier & much more difficult to move & carry. Crazy idea, now that I think about it, but somehow I've always thought that was what "dead weight" meant. Clearly I should not plan any career moves!

 

[SleuthyGal]

Who is that SG? I've never heard of him.

We were taught the banding can start in as little as a couple of hours, especially during warmer weather.

If she was killed after the party, say around 1 am or so and was dumped at around 4 am I would say that's certainly enough time for banding to start.

Kobalinski is a noted forensic scientist expert who appears on Nancy Grace, Larry King Live, and other similar shows when they have such discussions of forensic evidence. It was his quote that I found that said it can start anywhere from 'a few hours after death up to 2 days, but there haven't been that many studies on it.' It would be GREAT if such evidence was found in this case. It would nail things down quite nicely. I'm sure the crime lab will be looking for such banding and will make note of it.

 

[momto3kids]

We all agreed when we saw it that this was a quick 'drop 'n run' scenario. Just where she was found compared to how absolutely dense the foliage/shrubbery was around the pond area. This dumping was done in a hurry, from the edge of the paved area, in our humble opinions.

I absolutely agree it looks like a quick drop....but what if she wasn't totally dead and he did dragged her to the brush or behind the white tarp and she was able to barely crawl, but no energy once she rolled into the silt pond. It wasn't much of an incline for her to have crawled from the brush area around the small basin..

 

[raisincharlie]

i've always thought that expression "dead weight" meant that somehow in death, our bodies became heavier & much more difficult to move & carry. Crazy idea, now that I think about it, but somehow I've always thought that was what "dead weight" meant. Clearly I should not plan any career moves!

I'm not picking at you - honest Lack of muscle tension would make a body seem much heavier than the actual weight is all.

 

[Star12]

We all agreed when we saw it that this was a quick 'drop 'n run' scenario. Just where she was found compared to how absolutely dense the foliage/shrubbery was around the pond area. This dumping was done in a hurry, from the edge of the paved area, in our humble opinions.

Indeed we did. And the report did say the body was found "in front of" the silt fence - not in back of, nor beyond, nor on the other side of. And there were tons of dried footprints around the area where we believe the body had been left.

 

[sunflowers]

I have considered and rejected the possibility that the dump was done after, say, 4AM. I even considered the possibility that she was not dumped until after LE did the "look around" in the home. Like she might have been in the trunk of the car and was dumped later, but if this were true, I would think even a rookie LE would be able to tell someone as being extremely nervous about the body being discovered while they were looking around.

I feel strongly that the dump was in the early AM hours, well before daylight, and probably followed by a quick stop by the convenient HT store to stock up on detergent.

Unless there was an accomplice, which I do not believe at the moment, the kids were left alone while this trip was completed. After some time passed, the extra trips to the HT were made, and the phone call. Then BC the "White Tornado" performs his mighty feats of house cleaning, laundry, partial car detailing while juggling 2 young children with one hand tied behind his back. No problem at all if you are IRON MAN!

CyberPro

i agree. He would have wanted to dump Nancy's body when it was dark & before there was much activity (cars, runners, etc). and before the girls woke up.

he would have added the HT trip so that he could "explain" why he was out at that hour, if anybody saw his car going or coming. plus, he needed to do some cleaning! apparently, a lot of cleaning.

 

[SleuthyGal]

i've always thought that expression "dead weight" meant that somehow in death, our bodies became heavier & much more difficult to move & carry. Crazy idea, now that I think about it, but somehow I've always thought that was what "dead weight" meant. Clearly I should not plan any career moves!

Well think of picking up a huge bag of ... potatoes or mulch or something that is heavy and awkward. That is 'dead weight' cause the thing cannot 'help' you in any way to lift it...it just lays there and you have to do allll the lifting.

 

[jilly]

Brownish/green vegetable material....I don't think they would have said "vegetable" if they didn't mean it. I think they could tell it was some type of vegetable. Something she ate the night beofre?

Had to come back to this post....

It sure sounds like it would be something edible otherwise they would have said vegetation, wouldn't they?
It could be something anybody was eating in her car and dropped on the floor. I know when I had small kids we were always eating in the car.

 

[momto3kids]

Horrifying idea. we don't know when the kids normally woke up, but he absolutely wouldn't have taken them in the car while dumping their mother. i sure hope anyhow. that's unimaginable & unfathomable to me.

so, that would either speak to dumping nancy's body when doing his HT run around 4:20 a.m

OR leaving the kids at home & quickly driving over to the "dump site" closer to 7 a.m. Huge problem at that hour because it was light

I just wish the HT trip and LTF could be uncovered before trial, but we know it won't be.
At least 4am has now been spoken about since I have harped on this since my 1st post.. He was up at 4am and it wasn't reading nursery rhymes.:waitasec:

 

[CyberPro]

i've always thought that expression "dead weight" meant that somehow in death, our bodies became heavier & much more difficult to move & carry. Crazy idea, now that I think about it, but somehow I've always thought that was what "dead weight" meant. Clearly I should not plan any career moves!

Sunflowers,

Unless you have picked up a dead or seriously unconcious person, you would not understand, but if it helps, think sleeping child. They are not helping you lift them at all, are bulky, and they tend to bend at the joints when you would rather they would not.

During my EMS days, I was supposed to pick up one end of a 13 year old who was nearly toxic from alcohol. She was not wearing a shirt, and had been sweating and vomiting. I placed my hands under her shoulders to lift her onto the stretcher, and when I tried to lift her, the shoulders flexed forward and her chest bent slightly in the center, and she slipped back to the floor. It was like picking up a slippery, heavy, rag doll.

Now, to this mixture, add:

1. Serious dose of panic
2. Generous amount of fear
3. 2 quarts of WTH have I done?
4. Double portion of "will I be caught"?

I feel sure that even with these factors, he could have picked her up with no problems, adrenelin is handy that way.

CyberPro

 

[EntreNous]

Kobalinski is a noted forensic scientist expert who appears on Nancy Grace, Larry King Live, and other similar shows when they have such discussions of forensic evidence. It was his quote that I found that said it can start anywhere from 'a few hours after death up to 2 days, but there haven't been that many studies on it.' It would be GREAT if such evidence was found in this case. It would nail things down quite nicely. I'm sure the crime lab will be looking for such banding and will make note of it.

Interesting. I'm going to have to look him up.

I guess that's what I get for not watching Nancy Grace. But if I did, I'd have to punch her. She grates so badly on my nerves.:crazy: