Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #24

[maconrich]

Star your quote (sig line) is from the paragraph that had me seeing red and showed BC's controlling nature to the point I wanted to b-slap him into next week!!

page 5, paragraph 2: 'Brad Cooper confirmed that NC planned to move to Canada with both children, but these plans were changed by BC. BC stated that he suggested multiple alternatives to N and she refused all the offered alternatives.' That he'd taken the passports of both children but offered to give her the passport of one of the children so they could both be sure neither would attempt to leave taking the children. Said he had possession of the passports and said N had refused to 'hold' a passport of one of the children.

HE changed the plans to move. HE suggested multiple alternatives. She refused all of the OFFERED alternatives. HE OFFERED to give her one passport.

 

[Star12]

Star your quote (sig line) is from the paragraph that had me seeing red and showed BC's controlling nature to the point I wanted to b-slap him into next week!!

page 5, paragraph 2: 'Brad Cooper confirmed that NC planned to move to Canada with both children, but these plans were changed by BC. BC stated that he suggested multiple alternatives to N and she refused all the offered alternatives.' That he'd taken the passports of both children but offered to give her the passport of one of the children so they could both be sure neither would attempt to leave taking the children. Said he had possession of the passports and said N had refused to 'hold' a passport of one of the children.

HE changed the plans to move. HE suggested multiple alternatives. She refused all of the OFFERED alternatives. HE OFFERED to give her one passport.

HE was SO the BOSS of her. She planned to go to Canada. HE changed her plan.

Now Nancy IS in Canada. And so are her children.

 

[stillblv]

Star your quote (sig line) is from the paragraph that had me seeing red and showed BC's controlling nature to the point I wanted to b-slap him into next week!!

page 5, paragraph 2: 'Brad Cooper confirmed that NC planned to move to Canada with both children, but these plans were changed by BC. BC stated that he suggested multiple alternatives to N and she refused all the offered alternatives.' That he'd taken the passports of both children but offered to give her the passport of one of the children so they could both be sure neither would attempt to leave taking the children. Said he had possession of the passports and said N had refused to 'hold' a passport of one of the children.

HE changed the plans to move. HE suggested multiple alternatives. She refused all of the OFFERED alternatives. HE OFFERED to give her one passport.

He offered(???) to give her one passport? Were they his to offer???? Did he own them?

 

[Star12]

He offered(???) to give her one passport? Were they his to offer???? Did he own them?

Of COURSE they were his. Just ask him.

 

[jmflu]

Unfortunately not in this case. It takes at least a few hours after death (and up to 1 or 2 days), per Lawrence Kobaliski, for the hair banding to start in a cadaver's hair. Any hair that Nancy shed as she was either in the house or put in the trunk or dumped would not (yet) show this banding pattern. No banding pattern = can't prove whether head hair came from a corpse.

So if I'm understanding correctly, banding does not occur on hair that has already come off the head. It must still be attached to the head in order for banding to occur?

 

[tarheellvr]

Just want to throw in my 2 cents worth. I find the theory of being hit/run over in the garage a very plausible one, especially with the hair on the car, etc.

I still feel she came home, went upstairs, and a fight ensued up there. With his "being up with Katie at 4" comment, I'll bet she surely was up....hearing noises from the altercation. Nancy was probably injured at this point and Brad got Katie back to bed. Then to make it look like an accident, could he have placed her on the floor of the garage and then run over her to show marks on her body like a "hit and run"? Was she still alive when he dumped her? I think the probabilities are very high she indeed was. Poor, poor Nancy.....OMG how she must have suffered, especially knowing it was BC doing this to her.

The post regarding some truth being told in statements where suspects lie made me think a lot. I honestly don't think he meant to kill her. Things got out of hand and his rage pushed him over the edge. Unlike the premeditation of JY, I feel BC seriously injured her during his fit of rage and then had to do something to cover himself. Rather than get her medical attention, he chose to kill her. This way he wouldn't be at fault. This way he wouldn't be the "bad guy". This way would in no way mar his reputation.

Yes, he's intelligent. Yes, he thought he could carry out the perfect crime. BUT.....he ran out of time, he had a bigger mess to clean up than he realized, he had to deal with the girls, and no matter how cold and calculating he is at some point emotions took over and he made mistakes. NO, NO not emotions of sorrow for his actions or Nancy, but complete fright of being caught and discovered.....fear for HIMSELF only.

I still contend those precious little girls were privy to some of it....especially early on. The thoughts of him driving to the dump site with them in their car seats and Mommy right behind in the trunk is beyond horrendous.....I honestly have no words to describe how this makes me feel inside.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I don't think he took the girls with him in the car when he dumped her body. I think he did it at/around 4am then went to HT to get detergent, then went back home and then made 2 more trips. I believe the girls were asleep at home and not in the car.

 

[CyberPro]

ETA: The "White Tornado" (Cyber's name for Brad) meets "Hurricane Heather".

In the spirit of full disclosure, the term "White Tornado" originated on a commercial for a cleaning product. I think it was Ajax liquid, on the commercial you would open the bottle and a cartoon White Tornado would come spinning out of the bottle and leave everything behing spotlessly clean.

To this day, when we have a major cleaning project going on at home, we refer to it as cleaning like a White Tornado.

I keep looking at the store for the bottle that actually contains the White Tornado that does the cleaning for you, but I have not found it yet.

CyberPro

 

[SleuthyGal]

So if I'm understanding correctly, banding does not occur on hair that has already come off the head. It must still be attached to the head in order for banding to occur?

It has to do with when decomposition occurs/gets to the point where a band of that dark color would form. If hair is shed immediately after death, then the chemical changes from the decomp process that take place in the body, that cause the banding, would not yet have started to occur. Hair is shed as decomp proceeds. Those hairs shed at that point in the decomp process would likely show some banding. Nancy was *probably* already at the dump site when her decomp progressed to the point of hair banding. Thus it's likely that any hair shed that would be found on/in BC's car may not show any banding.

 

[raisincharlie]

N&O reported today that the covers were car seat covers. They were not listed as coming from the car.

They must have a different copy of the inventory list than what we have seen then, I don't see anything that indicates the seat covers came from either car or are "car" seat covers.

 

[jilly]

Just want to throw in my 2 cents worth. I find the theory of being hit/run over in the garage a very plausible one, especially with the hair on the car, etc.

I still feel she came home, went upstairs, and a fight ensued up there. With his "being up with Katie at 4" comment, I'll bet she surely was up....hearing noises from the altercation. Nancy was probably injured at this point and Brad got Katie back to bed. Then to make it look like an accident, could he have placed her on the floor of the garage and then run over her to show marks on her body like a "hit and run"? Was she still alive when he dumped her? I think the probabilities are very high she indeed was. Poor, poor Nancy.....OMG how she must have suffered, especially knowing it was BC doing this to her.

The post regarding some truth being told in statements where suspects lie made me think a lot. I honestly don't think he meant to kill her. Things got out of hand and his rage pushed him over the edge. Unlike the premeditation of JY, I feel BC seriously injured her during his fit of rage and then had to do something to cover himself. Rather than get her medical attention, he chose to kill her. This way he wouldn't be at fault. This way he wouldn't be the "bad guy". This way would in no way mar his reputation.

Yes, he's intelligent. Yes, he thought he could carry out the perfect crime. BUT.....he ran out of time, he had a bigger mess to clean up than he realized, he had to deal with the girls, and no matter how cold and calculating he is at some point emotions took over and he made mistakes. NO, NO not emotions of sorrow for his actions or Nancy, but complete fright of being caught and discovered.....fear for HIMSELF only.

I still contend those precious little girls were privy to some of it....especially early on. The thoughts of him driving to the dump site with them in their car seats and Mommy right behind in the trunk is beyond horrendous.....I honestly have no words to describe how this makes me feel inside.

Hi Tarheellvr! I agree with you on the bits of truth these guys throw in and I would tend to agree with you in that they woke up Katie. If Katie did wake up, I think there's a good possibility that he took her with him when he dealt with the disposal of his wife. I just have the feeling she wouldn't have gone back to sleep right away without the comfort of mommy putting her back to bed and I don't think Brad would leave her in the house alone....awake....would he?

I don't see how he could run over her in the garage, though. Any garage I've been in, you hardly have room to swing a cat once the car is parked in it. Plus it seems nowadays people have their garages crammed with other stuff. I guess if he left her on the garage floor, backed out and then came back in but he might not want to risk the neighbors seeing or hearing that commotion. I kinda think that he put her in the trunk in the privacy of a closed garage and then took her out somewhere to stage a hit and run. Like someone else reminded us - Brad's lawyer was screaming about the autopsy report.

I'm not exactly 'sold' on this yet though. What puzzles me is the hair found under the right front bumper and if he did run over her, didn't he think that there might be tire marks which could be traced to his vehicle?

I don't think that he meant to kill her either - to begin with. It's ironic how these guys like Brad and Young screw up in the aftermath which I believe which is what will be the result of them both being convicted.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Once he got started though he was damned sure he was going to finish the job. And that is the very definition of premeditation.

As for Jason Young...well he planned the whole thing out.

 

[jilly]

Once he got started though he was damned sure he was going to finish the job. And that is the very definition of premeditation.

As for Jason Young...well he planned the whole thing out.

I don't think young planned on beating Michelle to death. I think he thought strangulation was gonna be a breeze but you're right, he did make a plan to kill her in advance and what he would do afterwards.

I'm with you on the premeditation (according to the law) on both cases.

What's your take on LE taking the pillow? Do you think Brad tried to smother her first? Do you think LE had a preliminary report from the ME?

ETA - Things must be heating up on the Caylee forum - having great difficulty trying to post here.

 

[sunflowers]

Hi Tarheellvr! I agree with you on the bits of truth these guys throw in and I would tend to agree with you in that they woke up Katie. If Katie did wake up, I think there's a good possibility that he took her with him when he dealt with the disposal of his wife. I just have the feeling she wouldn't have gone back to sleep right away without the comfort of mommy putting her back to bed and I don't think Brad would leave her in the house alone....awake....would he?

I don't see how he could run over her in the garage, though. Any garage I've been in, you hardly have room to swing a cat once the car is parked in it. Plus it seems nowadays people have their garages crammed with other stuff. I guess if he left her on the garage floor, backed out and then came back in but he might not want to risk the neighbors seeing or hearing that commotion. I kinda think that he put her in the trunk in the privacy of a closed garage and then took her out somewhere to stage a hit and run. Like someone else reminded us - Brad's lawyer was screaming about the autopsy report.

I'm not exactly 'sold' on this yet though. What puzzles me is the hair found under the right front bumper and if he did run over her, didn't he think that there might be tire marks which could be traced to his vehicle?

I don't think that he meant to kill her either - to begin with. It's ironic how these guys like Brad and Young screw up in the aftermath which I believe which is what will be the result of them both being convicted.

what do you all think brad thought would be in the autopsy report that would vindicate & clear him? he must have believed/known that they would find something that would clear him since his lawyers mentioned it more than once.....

 

[SleuthyGal]

what she was wearing (or not wearing) + COD is my guess.

 

[SleuthyGal]

What's your take on LE taking the pillow? Do you think Brad tried to smother her first? Do you think LE had a preliminary report from the ME?

ETA - Things must be heating up on the Caylee forum - having great difficulty trying to post here.

Well they took her sheet, some clothes, a pillow would be natural esp if they think she might have been attacked in her bed or somehow ended up there at some point or yes, smothered. I'm sure the ME verbally told LE what the COD was, absolutely.

The Caylee case is heating up bigtime: some cadaver dogs MIGHT have hit on something out near the airport and chloroform was found in Casey's car trunk + she searches for chloroform on her computer.

 

[raisincharlie]

Well they took her sheet, some clothes, a pillow would be natural esp if they think she might have been attacked in her bed or somehow ended up there at some point or yes, smothered. I'm sure the ME verbally told LE what the COD was, absolutely.

The Caylee case is heating up bigtime: some cadaver dogs MIGHT have hit on something out near the airport and chloroform was found in Casey's car trunk + she searches for chloroform on her computer.

She (Casey) is one sick, despicable witch- glad she is in FL - they don't mess around real long in applying the death sentence. She is IMO deserving.

 

[Star12]

She (Casey) is one sick, despicable witch- glad she is in FL - they don't mess around real long in applying the death sentence. She is IMO deserving.

Why, RC, are you so reticent and subtle this evening?

That whole situation is incredibly bizarre. Every now and then, my mind says, yes, but what if that woman did take......and then reality sets back in when I remember the trunk evidence. Poor, beautiful little baby.

 

[raisincharlie]

what do you all think brad thought would be in the autopsy report that would vindicate & clear him? he must have believed/known that they would find something that would clear him since his lawyers mentioned it more than once.....

I think this was bluster - the lawyer knew the autopsy report would not be complete, knew there was no way they would get a copy of it before completion - it simplly does not happen. If that lawyer was serious and Brad was serious he would have put Brad on the stand on that Friday instead of hiding in chambers hashing out the custody issue. Pure D BS

 

[raisincharlie]

Why, RC, are you so reticent and subtle this evening?

That whole situation is incredibly bizarre. Every now and then, my mind says, yes, but what if that woman did take......and then reality sets back in when I remember the trunk evidence. Poor, beautiful little baby.

Star there are very good reasons why I don't follow cases that involve children. Anyone that harms a child in any way, shape or form, IMO needs to be shot in the head like a rabid dog and tossed out for fish food. I loose all capability to reason :crazy: