Nancy Grace.. 09.10.08 8PM

[TxLady2]

Because it may cause a riot, because more than likely someone is going to end up getting hurt and then the county/city may be held accountable because they were aware of the volatile situation and did nothing about it? I'm sorry but I think the entire thing is a mistake and I wish the cops would put an end to it. This is not going to end in a good way.

There has already been a fist fight, 2 people have been shoved and now someone has had there stuff taken from them and thrown away. Gee, I wonder what's going to happen next.. certainly Caylee isn't going to pop out of their signs or loud mouths. They are not doing this for her.. they are doing this out of their own needs.

So what is being accomplished, are they proving that these people are upset and not thinking straight? That they are unstable.. that they are most likely hiding something? We already know this stuff. Standing in their yard screaming at them isn't going to turn them into good people. It's turning them into angry people.

I just don't get why people would continue to go there when they know how bad it is.. it's like they WANT to be hit or harmed. They want to be the next one on camera, the next victim.. they want to scream or beat sense into the A's.. make them "tell what they know" but it simply isn't going to happen. Come on, life doesn't work that way esp. with this family... they play some pretty interesting games

If anything, this stuff will make them closer... they will have a fight they can fight together, they will have the same enemy.

This family is not like the rest of you... they are made from a completely different mold.

IMO!

BRAVO!!! I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Annbelle]

I'm convinced.....this attorney is doing damage control. Cindy and George have legal problems coming down the pike, IMO.

yep. I agree.

It's bit late for MJ to be coming into this. Try as he might he can't unring the bell. Maybe he needs to check the the replays of inconsistances. Grief and grieving, ok, fine... perhaps...but things do not make any sense. Separating the A's from their daughter? Good plan, but they are already deeply in the doo doo.
The A's have already done the damage with THEIR behavior.
Some may listen to his spin and perhaps change their minds.
I give him credit for mentioning LE and the searchers and how wonderful they are.
Other than that, not buying any of it.
WS's are too smart for that.

 

[pizmex]

Good for you Nance!! Keep grilling him!

Oh yeah. Nancy's really grilling the family attorney. Scoring big points. Not!

Nancy couldn't grill a melted cheese samwich.

So what exactly did Nancy do here that would qualify as grilling? What deep secret did she manage to extract from the family lawyer. How did she trip him up? Cause I sure didn't see it. I saw a reasonable and professional acting lawyer, well spoken and articulate, tone down the shrieking Nancy, putting her in her place.

 

[pizmex]

The worst part of this show was when they were discussing death theories, and Nancy decided -wrongly- that if Casey had killed Caylee with chloroform accidentally, (i.e. -not intending and planning to kill her, but mistakenly thinking that the chloroform would've induced sleep) a Murder One charge would apply.

Nancy doesn't even get the law right. When a lawyer panelist tried to correct Nancy, she mockingly shot back, in sing-song fashion, something like "oh yeah, and if I point a gun at your head, trying to play an innocent prank, and the gun goes off accidentally and I kill you, I suppose that's not murder one either".

Actually Nancy, it isn't. Bad analogy. No. Actually it was a dumb analogy.

 

[CiCi]

Oh yeah. Nancy's really grilling the family attorney. Scoring big points. Not!

Nancy couldn't grill a melted cheese samwich.

So what exactly did Nancy do here that would qualify as grilling? What deep secret did she manage to extract from the family lawyer. How did she trip him up? Cause I sure didn't see it. I saw a reasonable and professional acting lawyer, well spoken and articulate, tone down the shrieking Nancy, putting her in her place.

I 100% agree. Although I do love Nancy, her show is so sensationalized.

The attorneys typically on her show have an agenda ( like selling their book)
and they will put up with her huffing and puffing and belittling them.

Nejame totally put her in her place.

 

[softsoul]

yep. I agree.

It's bit late for MJ to be coming into this. Try as he might he can't unring the bell. Maybe he needs to check the the replays of inconsistances. Grief and grieving, ok, fine... perhaps...but things do not make any sense. Separating the A's from their daughter? Good plan, but they are already deeply in the doo doo.
The A's have already done the damage with THEIR behavior.
Some may listen to his spin and perhaps change their minds.
I give him credit for mentioning LE and the searchers and how wonderful they are.
Other than that, not buying any of it.
WS's are too smart for that.

Most people are too smart for that. He can try to separate Cindy and George from Casey all he wants, but as long as they don't separate themselves from her no one will buy it.

 

[italianangel2411]

:behindbar
On Nancy Grace last night, I definitely understood Nancy's frustration with Cindy and George's CRIMINAL DEFENSE atttorney. This entire case is making me so mad, and I disagree with Nancy about the grandparents not having involvement. They don't care about finding Caylee anymore, maybe that first call of 911 perhaps. But, not anymore. Their main focus is to cover their butts and their daughter Caseys. The motion is beyond ridiculous that Casey's attorney filed yesterday. AND WHAT IN THE WORLD 4 LEADS CAN THEY POSSIBLY HAVE? Its a bunch of B.S., I guarantee there is no new leads she is alive. Last nights show was one of the best though.

 

[Samijeansg]

The worst part of this show was when they were discussing death theories, and Nancy decided -wrongly- that if Casey had killed Caylee with chloroform accidentally, (i.e. -not intending and planning to kill her, but mistakenly thinking that the chloroform would've induced sleep) a Murder One charge would apply.

Nancy doesn't even get the law right. When a lawyer panelist tried to correct Nancy, she mockingly shot back, in sing-song fashion, something like "oh yeah, and if I point a gun at your head, trying to play an innocent prank, and the gun goes off accidentally and I kill you, I suppose that's not murder one either".

Actually Nancy, it isn't. Bad analogy. No. Actually it was a dumb analogy.

On the chloroform subject. When has it become normal to put your child to sleep with chloroform? How could there by any other charge other than murder if someone dies because of it's use? I don't understand that it seemed the discussion was on whether it was intentional or not. I have never heard of someone using chloroform to make their child sleep or knock them out! It should be MURDER 1 regardless to me! I don't understand this at all!

 

[pizmex]

The worst part of this show was when they were discussing death theories, and Nancy decided -wrongly- that if Casey had killed Caylee with chloroform accidentally, (i.e. -not intending and planning to kill her, but mistakenly thinking that the chloroform would've induced sleep) a Murder One charge would apply.

Nancy doesn't even get the law right. When a lawyer panelist tried to correct Nancy, she mockingly shot back, in sing-song fashion, something like "oh yeah, and if I point a gun at your head, trying to play an innocent prank, and the gun goes off accidentally and I kill you, I suppose that's not murder one either".

Actually Nancy, it isn't. Bad analogy. No. Actually it was a dumb analogy.

On the chloroform subject. When has it become normal to put your child to sleep with chloroform? How could there by any other charge other than murder if someone dies because of it's use? I don't understand that it seemed the discussion was on whether it was intentional or not. I have never heard of someone using chloroform to make their child sleep or knock them out! It should be MURDER 1 regardless to me! I don't understand this at all!

This is a good question, and I'll explain. First of all, it's not normal for someone to put their child to sleep with chloroform. No one ever said it was normal. I didn't. Nancy didn't. And none of Nancy's guest panelists said it was normal. In fact, normalcy is mostly irrelevant to this discussion. Criminal defendants aren't sent to the electric chair for doing things that aren't normal.

Nancy wrongly implied that Casey would be convicted of the highest murder charges even if she chloroformed her child to death by accident. Even if Casey's intent was never to kill Caylee - but only to put Caylee to sleep for a few hours... even if Casey mistakenly thought that all that would happen was that Caylee would sleep for a few hours so Casey could have some time to herself.

Now of course, Casey would face very serious homicide charges even if Caylee accidentally died from chloroform exposure under the above scenario. Casey's behavior would be seen as criminally reckless, grossly negligent or insensitive to the rights of Caylee, and punishable by very serious and strict terms.

But that act wouldn't trigger the most serious murder charge available, the kind of murder charge that could put Casey behind bars for the rest of her life and even trigger death penalty considerations --and that's where Nancy was wrong. In order for a criminal defendant to qualify for those strictest charges, it must be shown that the defendant intended to kill the victim, planned the murder ahead of time, and engaged in the kind of actions that the defendant reasonably knew and understood would result in the death of her intended victim. This is a far cry from the hypothetical situation discussed on the show where Casey killed Caylee with chloroform accidentally, never really intending to kill Caylee, but simply unaware of the consequences of her actions.

No one is saying that Casey will get off scott free if the jury determines that Caylee died from chloroform under that somewhat accidental scenario. Casey will be subject to a long prison term on some count of homicide/manslaughter, etc. But it wouldn't be the strictest murder charge available. Although Nancy apparently thinks otherwise. Nancy's wrong. And it's a disgrace that she would flub this, given that she is broadcasting to a National cable TV audience and that she herself is a former prosecutor. And it wasn't enough that Nancy would totally screw up this basic first-year law student criminal intent standard. She openly mocked one of her guest panelists who tried to correct Nancy. Of course, he was interrupted, cut-off and sing-songed in mock-child style.

There is a big difference in whether, on the one hand, Casey intended to kill Caylee with chloroform, or whether Casey merely intended to use the chloroform mistakenly thinking that all that would happen is that Caylee would fall asleep for a few hours. Yesterday, Nancy failed to appreciate the differences, and this is unacceptable.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Nejame keeps saying it’s not CA or GA fault that Casey won’t tell what happened to Caylee. He said CA IS THE ONE who first called LE and went looking for Caylee.
Well big deal ~ she is also the one who pulled out both barrels slinging at LE and covering up everything KC said.

She went on national tv running her mouth and defending the actions of KC who lied to LE from the get go!!

This is why there is NO sympathy left for the Anthony family. They should have kept the focus on Caylee and let KC pay for her own mistakes!!! :behindbar

 

[Gaia713]

Because they are still mad from the last time... from the last ones. Their anger has to go somewhere and their disfunction keeps them from dealing with what is real. They avoid it, they invent other seemingly more urgent "have to be dealt with NOW" issues.

For me this family is very interesting to watch.. I was raised in a home with similar disfunction, Cindy and my mother could be the same person.. the lies and games and attention getting etc. What interests me most though is that I have never seen a family in which every member has this amount of disfunction.

Although Cindy can't keep her mouth shut and says too much sometimes, something is eating at George.. he is the weak link and seems to be falling apart. My guess is that (unless he hurts someone else and ends up in jail) it will be him that cracks and "confesses" to what he knows... hell maybe he'll kill himself.

Anyway... the entire thing is so sad to watch.

I'm nobody and I know close to nothing- these are just my own thoughts and opinions

They need to direct their anger towares Casey. She's the missing link in all this and the only way she'll cave is with a lot of pressure (if even then). I believe the oritesters are there to get to Casey - I don't recall a lot of them when she was in jail.

 

[Gaia713]

I'd like to see Nancy Grace being allowed to be alone with them for an hour. She's GOOD- she's mean, ruthless and doesn't hold back. I personally do not like her show because of that but who cares, in this case she is perfect for the job.. she is one tough cookie!

I gotta say, I love what she did to Melinda Duckett, I'm just sad we didn't get to find out what she did with her son before she killed herself. Though I don't think she would have ever told the truth either. Killing herself was her way of maintaining control of the situation.. she knew she was screwed so she chose how it would end before anyone else could.

MO

I missed Nancy with Melinda Duckett. I just know how passionate she is for the VICTIMS and I admire that. She has no fear when it comes to protecting the victims. Yes, Cindy and George are victims. They are victims of their own daughter. Caylee is the true victim here. She's out there dead or alive (probably dead) and no one in her family is looking for her.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

snip

But that act wouldn't trigger the most serious murder charge available, the kind of murder charge that could put Casey behind bars for the rest of her life and even trigger death penalty considerations --and that's where Nancy was wrong. In order for a criminal defendant to qualify for those strictest charges, it must be shown that the defendant intended to kill the victim, planned the murder ahead of time, and engaged in the kind of actions that the defendant reasonably knew and understood would result in the death of her intended victim. This is a far cry from the hypothetical situation discussed on the show where Casey killed Caylee with chloroform accidentally, never really intending to kill Caylee, but simply unaware of the consequences of her actions.

No one is saying that Casey will get off scott free if the jury determines that Caylee died from chloroform under that somewhat accidental scenario. Casey will be subject to a long prison term on some count of homicide/manslaughter, etc. But it wouldn't be the strictest murder charge available. Although Nancy apparently thinks otherwise. Nancy's wrong. And it's a disgrace that she would flub this, given that she is broadcasting to a National cable TV audience and that she herself is a former prosecutor. And it wasn't enough that Nancy would totally screw up this basic first-year law student criminal intent standard. She openly mocked one of her guest panelists who tried to correct Nancy. Of course, he was interrupted, cut-off and sing-songed in mock-child style.

There is a big difference in whether, on the one hand, Casey intended to kill Caylee with chloroform, or whether Casey merely intended to use the chloroform mistakenly thinking that all that would happen is that Caylee would fall asleep for a few hours. Yesterday, Nancy failed to appreciate the differences, and this is unacceptable.

Hi, respectfully disagree. All lawyers make mistakes. Contrary to popular belief, they are human, they err.

This is certainly acceptable...

Actually, the correct charge in this set of circumstances, as referenced above , is second degree murder.

Here is the Florida Indictment format for second degree murder. It fits Nancy's scenario as well as the chloroform scenario.


(b) As to second degree murder:

Unlawfully by an act imminently dangerous to another, and evincing a depraved mind, regardless of human life; that is to say, by firing her or his shotgun into the store of _____ (or by striking _____ with an adz, as the case may be) but without a premeditated design to effect the death of any particular person, did kill _____ in said county.


That covers the chloroform scenario. I am not so sure that second degree murder doesn't carry life in the state of Florida. I'll look it up.
But, if it does carry life, it would be completely acceptable for a poster to have stated that Casey isn't looking at life, such as the way you did.
Sheesh. We all make mistakes.

jmo

 

[Gaia713]

Hi, respectfully disagree. All lawyers make mistakes. Contrary to popular belief, they are human, they err.

This is certainly acceptable...

Actually, the correct charge in this set of circumstances, as referenced above , is second degree murder.

Here is the Florida Indictment format for second degree murder. It fits Nancy's scenario as well as the chloroform scenario.


(b) As to second degree murder:

Unlawfully by an act imminently dangerous to another, and evincing a depraved mind, regardless of human life; that is to say, by firing her or his shotgun into the store of _____ (or by striking _____ with an adz, as the case may be) but without a premeditated design to effect the death of any particular person, did kill _____ in said county.


That covers the chloroform scenario. I am not so sure that second degree murder doesn't carry life in the state of Florida. I'll look it up.
But, if it does carry life, it would be completely acceptable for a poster to have stated that Casey isn't looking at life, such as the way you did.
Sheesh. We all make mistakes.

jmo

IIRC Nancy also explained that premeditation needs only take a few minutes.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

(snipped)

But that act wouldn't trigger the most serious murder charge available, the kind of murder charge that could put Casey behind bars for the rest of her life and even trigger death penalty considerations ... Yesterday, Nancy failed to appreciate the differences, and this is unacceptable.

Ummmm, if you look up second degree murder in Florida, it does carry a life sentence.

Second-degree murder under s. 782.04(2)(3), F.S., is a
first-degree felony, punishable by a term of years not
exceeding life imprisonment


If I am wrong it is acceptable though.

Casey is looking at life . If evidence exists which can prove premeditation.....well then she's looking at death.

jmo

 

[MiraclesHappen]

IIRC Nancy also explained that premeditation needs only take a few minutes.

Yup, that is why there arises so much confusion in the question of
heat of passion manslaughter vs thought about it /premeditated murder.

 

[LaLaw2000]

As far as NeJame is concerned, you never get a second chance to make a first impression. My first impression is certainly not good. I have dismissed him in my mind now as just another ineffective blowhard. Nowhere on his site does he claim to be a media/image consultant.

NeJame, IMO, is just another figure now in this circus of mistruths and halftruths (Cindy's words for LIES).

 

[pizmex]

Hi, respectfully disagree. All lawyers make mistakes. Contrary to popular belief, they are human, they err.

Of course it's OK for a person to make a mistake. But it's not OK for Nancy to have made that mistake. Not under those circumstances. Nancy should know the facts of this case, and know the potential range of homicide/murder charges Casey faces, which aren't that many. She needn't have memorized the entire Florida Penal Code to stay informed. And above all, she should know the difference between Murder One and Murder Two, which is first year law school stuff. Especially if part of her deal is to embarrass and mock her panelists.

Which is what she did. In pure Nancy style, she compounded her mistake by then mocking, trying to humiliate her guest panelist, who was only trying to correct Nancy.

I find it inexplicable that you would defend Nancy under those circumstances.

 

[pizmex]

IIRC Nancy also explained that premeditation needs only take a few minutes.

This has nothing to do with premeditation, which, by the way, could happen in just a few seconds, not necessarily minutes. A person who accidentally chloroforms her kid to death, mistakenly thinking that the chloroform will merely induce sleep, unaware of the fatal consequences, and never intending to kill the child in the first place, premeditates nothing, as far as murder is concerned.

The issue is that in the accident hypothetical discussed on the NG show, there was no premeditation for a Murder One charge.

 

[pizmex]

Ummmm, if you look up second degree murder in Florida, it does carry a life sentence.

Second-degree murder under s. 782.04(2)(3), F.S., is a
first-degree felony, punishable by a term of years not
exceeding life imprisonment


If I am wrong it is acceptable though.

Casey is looking at life . If evidence exists which can prove premeditation.....well then she's looking at death.

jmo

Ummm, if you read my post, that was exactly my point. Nancy incorrectly stated that this was Murder One, not Murder two.

Ummm, I wrote that Casey faces serious charges even if she accidentally chloroformed Caylee to death.

Nancy incorrectly maintained that an accidental chloroform death was Murder One. First Degree Murder. That's what the One in Murder One is for. First Degree. Otherwise Nancy would've said Murder Two. Second Degree Murder. Which she didn't.