Nancy Grace - 10/16/08 Thursday

[Brini]

NG show was even more appalling than usual this evening, I had to turn it off 20 minutes into the show. Well, it's just a prosecutor's take on the case, it's so one-sided obviously, that's a given. But still, it's pretty amazing the things that some people will say on national TV about someone they've never even met, without the facts even having been heard in court yet. And they've repeated these comments every night for 3 months now. I wish the station would give us an hour of coverage of the case with a different moderator, for example, Chuck Roberts or somebody, you know, just an even-handed news program about it, without the burn her at the stake mentality. Many people on the show don't even seem to have read much about the case, they don't even seem to know about all the players, it's like they think Casey and Caylee were just alone on an island together or something when Caylee disappeared. They're not raising any useful questions. I thought the show had improved slightly just lately, but it was extra awful tonight. The way they misquote people too, especially the defense, and twist words around, it's just too gross.

The scary thing is that the investigation by LE appears to have been just as limited. And they're not supposed to be prosecutors, they're supposed to be investigators. Again, I say appears, I'm judging by what's been in the media, we certainly hope there was much more investigation and that it is ongoing....But judging from appearance, only a handful of the people KC and Caylee had been around during the time frame seem to have even been questioned. Little or no forensics done in the homes in question or in anybody's car, etc (apparently). Do they even care that one of the people she was hanging around the first week of July, a person who talked here on WS about supposedly using chloroform on detainees when he was in the military (I sure hope he was only joking, it didn't seem like a joke), has now taken a job overseas and is moving or has already moved out of the country? This is only one example, I don't mean that that particular person is guilty of anything, he is presumed innocent as are they all, and as is KC. But if you were LE wouldn't you have investigated all these people and be surveilling and so on, taken the cadaver dogs to all of these places, just as a matter of routine investigation? I don't believe that one guy was even questioned. This kind of thing, that's what I'll never understand. ....How will they ever find Caylee or find out what may have happened to her and who was involved? Well like I said, I hope a WHOLE lot of investigation went on that has not been made public. Hope they didn't have tunnel vision in this case.

All of the death evidence was found in KC's car, is the issue. And, there's a TON of it.

 

[Pondering Mind]

You know, I think in the end, something as simple and normal as this could turn out to be what actually happened. Usually it does seem like the simplest explanation turns out to be the truth. As many have said here before, if something like this did happen, it's even possible she has been in a state of shock since then and can't allow herself to face what happened, will only let herself remember the last time she dropped Caylee off with the babysitter.

I have to tell you that I lost my oldest child to SIDS when I was 16 and I found him. My ex-husband (who was 20) and I were both in shock, but it didn't stop me from running next door to call 911 while he was doing CPR, even though we both realized (LATER) that it was already too late. I NEVER had a problem remembering it, could tell you everything about it even now 34 years later. So, I really have a problem buying that.

 

[Themis]

Why hang around? Well, that's because most convicts are stupid. They are unsuccessful criminals -- they got caught. Happens all the time. Our prisons are full of them.

 

[seagull65]

I assume you are using the word "accident" to mean KC didn't intend to kill Caylee. However, in the law, if KC did something that put that child in the gravest danger even neglectfully, it may be enough to support a homicide charge. Therefore, her specific intent regarding an "accident" is not going to be a complete or successful defense.

As to "so many theories" when it gets to court if the defense wants to parlay one of those theories into a defense they are going to have to come up with some hard evidence that one or more of those things happened. Just arguing them isn't going to negate the prosecution's case.

Not attacking you. Just discussion. Just sayin'

It's actually the prosecution who are going to have to present a convincing case of guilt.

Yes, I understand that's true that an accident that occurred during the commission of another crime can legally be "homicide". Not that I agree with it, but there it is.

I'm not saying either that KC won't be convicted of murder, whether or not she ever committed a murder. Generally I do trust juries though. But the climate in this case has been awful. She was convicted of murder in the media before any facts were known in the case at all. LE seemed to conclude that she had killed her child during DAY 1 of the investigation, they told her this more or less. They do not appear to have investigated other possibilities or any other parties in any detail at all.

 

[OneLostGrl]

If KC committed a crime, if she fatally harmed Caylee in some way, why hang around? Her continuation of normal behavior makes me tend toward the belief that she didn't realize the gravity of the situation yet, i.e. thought Caylee would be coming back, thought she was in good hands, thought the nanny had her for the summer, whatever. Either that or it's also possible that KC is completely delusional or has a cognitive problem of some kind. Could be memory, could be irrationality, could be delusions, could be a lot of things. It is pretty weird about the absinthe bottle in the party pictures. When the absinthe revival began I thought it must not really be the same old absinthe, it must be a new drink that's just called that to be funny. But no, it really is absinthe making a comeback.

Are you suggesting she may have been blacked out on absinthe when something happened to Caylee?

 

[SewingDeb]

No, you're right, she has always insisted that this particular nanny has, or at least took, Caylee. If KC really believes this nanny has the child, (it's possible), I have wondered if she actually saw the nanny take possession of Caylee or if she just believes that happened because she dropped the child off there but didn't actually watch until the nanny had Caylee. Or even if she had actually left the child with other friends or acquaintances, something happened during their watch, Caylee got lost or wandered off, they found out somehow that woman had been there, thought she took Caylee...or a tragic accident occurred while friends were watching Caylee, KC was afraid of incriminating them or herself or was afraid of facing her parents with that, concocted the nanny story...Or even that some friend or acquaintance harmed Caylee but convinced KC the nanny has her and she believed them and elaborated from there. I honestly don't know what happened, there are simply so many possible scenarios regarding the nanny. I do still think it's within the realm of possibility that somebody, even this particular nanny, acquaintance, whatever she really was, actually has Caylee.

They're keeping Caylee's body?

 

[Themis]

Seems to me the point of an investigation is to find answers; not to see how many pointless questions can be raised. :waitasec:

 

[Pondering Mind]

Seems to me the point of an investigation is to find answers; not to see how many pointless questions can be raised. :waitasec:

I'm dizzy now. :banghead:

 

[Brini]

There's nothing wrong with grey shag carpet. Just add a couple floppy bean bag chairs and you're all set.

Don't forget the lava lamps!;-)

 

[Ocean Lover]

Yeah, but I've looked at missing children websites plenty of times. That's what the pictures on the milk cartons are all about, isn't it? Or the posters in the post office? To make you stop and look. Haven't lots of people looked at the Missing Children's Center website before, just wondering, are there any children in my area that need to be found or whatever? I mean, how does looking at missing children on a website connect with then supposedly murdering ones own child? I never got what that line of thinking was exactly.

KC had had a social life and a baby for three years, why all of a sudden would she want to murder her child? It doesn't add up for me.

The reason is that she suddenly got caught stealing from her grandmother and also couldn't go on the trip with her friends. In my opinion that if her parents would have held her accountable for her actions all her life then maybe just maybe this wouldn't be happening now.

 

[Themis]

It's actually the prosecution who are going to have to present a convincing case of guilt.

Indeed that is their job. There are people who will never be convinced no matter what evidence is presented. What will matter is what the jury decides.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Seems to me the point of an investigation is to find answers; not to see how many pointless questions can be raised. :waitasec:

Why are they pointless? How do we know what he is saying isn't what happened?

 

[Boston]

You know it is hard. I also want to see Caylee brought home & given the proper burial. But I also know it is just her little body out there, not her soul. Her soul is in heaven. You see it in the blue sky, the stars at night. I think God just cries at man's inhumanity. I happen to believe Caylee's body will be found, but either way, I believe people like Casey should be punished by death. It is not my place nor the court's to have mercy on Casey's soul. A child is a beautiful gift from God, so innocent, so pure & should be loved, guided & cherished. Casey took the life of someone who could not defend herself. Caylee counted on all those around her to love & protect her. I still have decided if the DP is supposed to be a deterrent or a punishmen. For some I guess it's neither........my daughter, a law student & I debate this often In the past we were foster parents to many abused children. I just don't get how anyone can harm a child. So yeah, because I know in my heart Caylee is in heaven, I would still opt to give Casey the DP. Maybe her choice should be the needle ( pretty kind in my book ) IF she tells them where Casey is OR the chair ( not the way I would want to go ) if she doesn't tell.

I agree with everything in your post & you almost changed my mind....it's very thought provoking

When you say that "her soul is in heaven" I couldn't agree with you more but the reason I would still say "yes...offer KC the deal" it's not so much for the sake of just finding Caylee's remains & giving her a proper burial but it's also to give people some closure.

I think when LE finds itself in a situation like this they feel a certain responsibility to the child's remaining family. Though most of us could care less about Cindy & George having closure, Caylee has a Great Grandmother & Grandfather & I'm sure there are many other friends & relatives out there, as well as strangers, who just want to see Caylee brought home even if that means sparing the life of the monster who killed her.

Anyway....Hopefully Tim Miller finds Caylee's remains - If that were to happen I would hope that LE wouldn't offer her anything other than a last meal.

 

[Themis]

Why are they pointless? How do we know what he is saying isn't what happened?

Who is the "he" you are referring to?

 

[Themis]

Don't forget the lava lamps!;-)

Macrame plant hangers. :crazy:

 

[Boston]

Seven-year-old Danielle Van Dam's killer, David Westerfield, was negotiating a plea bargain when they found the little girl's body. San Diego case. IIRC, he was working a deal to take them to the body and get LWOP instead of DP. He lives near Scott Peterson now -- San Quentin. I followed that case very closely and the entomology stuff was just heartbreaking.

THAT'S THE ONE...!!!

Thank you .....It was driving me nuts!

Didn't the lawyer catch a lot of heat after the trial because he knew that his client was guilty & he knew where the Body was?...Not exactly sure what it was..

Anyway,,,,,,Thanks again

 

[Brini]

Without getting on my pontifical horse too much I am appalled at this whole family's behavior. When your child is ill or missing you step up to the plate. You put aside everything to heal or find the child. You don't spend your time waylaying the significance or counter balancing with lies...you do it.

This family doesn't deserve the amount of sympathy being elicited. Better to turn the attention to finding Caylee and seeking justice and then educating other families about enabling personality disordered people.

I agree.

 

[SewingDeb]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absinthe#USA

A faux-absinthe liquor called Absente, made with southern wormwood (Artemisia abrotanum) instead of grande wormwood (Artemisia absinthium), is sold legally in the United States. This was the first US approval referring to "absinthe" on the front label; the front label says "Absinthe Refined" but the TTB classified the product as liqueur.

In 2007, TTB relaxed the US absinthe ban, and approved several brands for sale.[75] These brands must pass TTB testing, which is performed by the Gas Chromatography-Mass Spectrometry method[76]. The TTB considers a product to be thujone-free if the FDA’s test measures less than 10ppm (equal to 10mg/kg) thujone.[77] A US distillery also began producing and selling absinthe, the first US company to do so since 1912.[78]

 

[sweetmop]

Did you guys read the new PEOPLE?

JG seems convinced that Caylee died in an accident

He's quoted as saying that .....

"I don't believe KC would ever hurt Caylee on purpose"

"Sometimes Casey would go outside to use the phone & leave Caylee in the living room"

"Caylee would hang out in the living room while KC was in the computer room"

"Caylee had a habit of picking up rocks off the ground & putting them in her mouth"

"Caylee was drawn to the pool "

"If something did happen.....I almost believe that KC would take Caylee & put her somewhere & then tell herself a new story, a new reality of what happened"


Just thought I'd share these comments with you guys incase you missed them

I haven't seen People this week. I'll have to get one tonorrow.
This info Jesse has given doesn't surprise me at all though. Casey didn't watch her toddler daughter. It sounds like little Caylee was on her own! And we already pretty much knew that. it just doesn't make sense to me that if Caylee had some type of accident or injury, why would Casey call 911? If it were truely an accident !
Somehow, I can't buy the accident theory. What about the chloraform?
Thanks for this Boston.

 

[Oakley]

Seems to me the point of an investigation is to find answers; not to see how many pointless questions can be raised. :waitasec:

Succinct, precise, and to the point.