Nancy Grace - 11/7/08 Friday

[Jolynna]

Casey's actions are what may send her to the electric chair. If she had not chosen to kill little Caylee she would not potentially be facing the death penalty, regardless of how she was raised.

I agree.

My mother isn't responsible for what I do.

 

[Janis396]

Casey's actions are what may send her to the electric chair. If she had not chosen to kill little Caylee she would not potentially be facing the death penalty, regardless of how she was raised.[/QUOTE]

That's an awful big "REGARDLESS..." Like what, the past 22 years have no link, no bearing on what brought us here today... hmmm... this shows tremendous insight Chill... lol. JMO

Exactly. Casey learned to be who she is today from her mother, Cindy. And Cindy continues with her dysfunctional parenting, even to this day, as her daughter is facing life in prison. I'm just glad Cindy will no longer get the chance to inflict her poison on Caylee.

 

[Chilly Willy]

Exactly. Casey learned to be who she is today from her mother, Cindy. And Cindy continues with her dysfunctional parenting, even to this day, as her daughter is facing life in prison. I'm just glad Cindy will no longer get the chance to inflict her poison on Caylee.

Yes, much better that Caylee be dead

 

[Pink Panther]

Yes, much better that Caylee be dead

Not funny. Quite horrible really.

 

[Janis396]

Not funny. Quite horrible really.

Yes, quite horrible what Cindy would have done to Caylee.

 

[Pink Panther]

Honestly, I'm not concerned with the past 22 years. If Casey was raised with violence or was abused I might have a different opinion, but I'm not going to negate what Casey has done by blaming it on Cindy. "Gosh, my mommy was too nice to me and it turned me into a baby killer."

If Casey were a male we wouldn't even being having this discussion.

No. I think its more like "my mommy was too stupid and no matter what I did, I got away with it."

MOO

 

[Chilly Willy]

No. I think its more like "my mommy was too stupid and no matter what I did, I got away with it."

MOO

It's not a matter of whether Casey thought she could get away with it, it's a matter of Casey taking a life, the life of her own daughter. Do you think Cindy taught Casey to be a killer and that Casey didn't know it was wrong?

 

[Pink Panther]

It's not a matter of whether Casey thought she could get away with it, it's a matter of Casey taking a life, the life of her own daughter. Do you think Cindy taught Casey to be a killer and that Casey didn't know it was wrong?

No. I don't think CA "taught KC to be a killer" but I do think she taught her that she could do all kinds of stupid things as long as she lied about them effectively.

 

[Janis396]

No. I think its more like "my mommy was too stupid and no matter what I did, I got away with it."

MOO

You said it, Pink!! :clap:

 

[Chilly Willy]

No. I don't think CA "taught KC to be a killer" but I do think she taught her that she could do all kinds of stupid things as long as she lied about them effectively.

So the responsibility for killing Caylee falls totally on Casey, not Cindy.

 

[Pink Panther]

So the responsibility for killing Caylee falls totally on Casey, not Cindy.

Chilly - I don't believe that the world is black and white. Unfortunately, like it or not, there is a lot of grey. Unfortunately, from what we can see, there is a tremendous amount of enabling in this family and I don't believe that it can be completely ignored. No. I don't think that CA is responsible for what an adult KC did. But I also don't believe that she is completely absolved of responsiblity for what happened to her grand-child who she so resolutely claimed SHE was raising. Her claims. Not mine. So, where was she?

 

[Spangle]

Honestly, I'm not concerned with the past 22 years. If Casey was raised with violence or was abused I might have a different opinion, but I'm not going to negate what Casey has done by blaming it on Cindy. "Gosh, my mommy was too nice to me and it turned me into a baby killer."

If Casey were a male we wouldn't even being having this discussion.

Actually, I think we are all discussing this, cause of all the info we have, all the video of watching the family, etc. To much time 'studing' the family.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Honestly, I'm not concerned with the past 22 years. If Casey was raised with violence or was abused I might have a different opinion, but I'm not going to negate what Casey has done by blaming it on Cindy. "Gosh, my mommy was too nice to me and it turned me into a baby killer."

If Casey were a male we wouldn't even being having this discussion.

You misunderstand. I was not, and have never suggested, that KC is not responsible for her own choices or that she shouldn't pay for her crimes. I am however more interested than you evidently in avoiding this sort of nightmare from repeating by understanding the contributors to this tragedy. If you don't wish to consider this, that is perfectly fine. And then there's no need to wonder what 20 years of the same parenting would have eventually done to Caylee. JMO

 

[kiki the parrot]

Exactly. Casey learned to be who she is today from her mother, Cindy. And Cindy continues with her dysfunctional parenting, even to this day, as her daughter is facing life in prison. I'm just glad Cindy will no longer get the chance to inflict her poison on Caylee.

Can I get a witness?!! Thank you, another voice of reason, another light in the darkness. She didn't have to train her daughter to be a hitwoman for heaven's sake--she just had to teach her that she's entitled to whatever she wants, that other people are easily manipulated and deceived, that she is the center of the universe, that no matter how defiant, unruly, or treacherous she behaves she'll always be excused, that she bears no responsibilities in life, that exploiting others is without penalty, that it is more important to keep up appearances than to admit the truth, that her actions will have no consequences and when all else fails if you mess up just LIE, LIE, LIE. That should do it. JMO

 

[jat]

I am often on the same page as Chilly Willy especially on this topic.

Enabling children is very prevalent in the US. I know I personally see it in probably 1/2 of my friends. A few even to the extent of CA and Casey. I remember it in friends growing up. I see it in some of my relatives. What I have found that enabling encourages is lying. Lying lying and more lying.

Quite honestly, to get personal, if my husband were raising my girls alone...they would probably grow up to be liars 'cause he is a big enabler...the same as his parents enabled his sisters. His sisters are now 29 and 30 and still do not completely support themselves. They make up stories to how they got into car accidents (oh feel bad for me and buy me a new car, etc.) and why they need to find new jobs, etc. It is so infuriating.

My friends who enable their children have little kids that sneak behind your back to smack another kid and then innocently look at their parents like...I don't know what happened? They get in trouble in school and the parents are "helicopter parents" just like CA.

Sorry, I am rambling...the point is...these parents (and we all know them) are not being judged and trashed and blamed for their children's actions. No one is digging into the backgrounds of these children to figure out why they are as they are. Of course, I understand that they don't have a dead/missing grandchild on their record, but THAT IS MY POINT! Not all enabled children grow up to be killers!!! Not even the majority grow up to be killers!!! It isn't CA's enabling that made her a killer! It IS CA's enabling that made her a LIAR! The blood of Caylee is NOT on CA's hands.

Not all enabled people are murderers.
Not all murderers were enabled.

And sure, CA's media appearances, her own lying, etc. do not create a sympathetic character. I wouldn't be her friend my any means. But I also don't feel the need to judge because I can not possibly understand what she is going through. But, by constantly bashing CA and trying to find some way to place even partial blame on her for KC's actions, you are falling right into KC's trap. Couldn't you see her smug face in jail saying to her mother, "YOU made me kill her, mom. YOU made me kill her!"

 

[Chezhire]

:clap:

SNIPPED: "It's not a matter of whether Casey thought she could get away with it, it's a matter of Casey taking a life, the life of her own daughter. ...."

Have to say Chilly, it's not always that I agree with you, but I do agree with what you posted above.
Well said.
Just b/c one grows up in a shadow like Cindy does not mean one will be like her - we all make choices - that's what being a human being is all about.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Sorry, I am rambling...the point is...these parents (and we all know them) are not being judged and trashed and blamed for their children's actions. No one is digging into the backgrounds of these children to figure out why they are as they are. Of course, I understand that they don't have a dead/missing grandchild on their record, but THAT IS MY POINT! Not all enabled children grow up to be killers!!! Not even the majority grow up to be killers!!! It isn't CA's enabling that made her a killer! It IS CA's enabling that made her a LIAR! The blood of Caylee is NOT on CA's hands.

Not all enabled people are murderers.
Not all murderers were enabled.

And sure, CA's media appearances, her own lying, etc. do not create a sympathetic character. I wouldn't be her friend my any means. But I also don't feel the need to judge because I can not possibly understand what she is going through. But, by constantly bashing CA and trying to find some way to place even partial blame on her for KC's actions, you are falling right into KC's trap. Couldn't you see her smug face in jail saying to her mother, "YOU made me kill her, mom. YOU made me kill her!"

Sorry but this goes FAR beyond enablement. I've never presumed to diagnose KC. And unlike most on these threads have refrained from rushing to judgment until we have the totality of evidence because IIRC we don't even KNOW for a fact that KC MURDERED Caylee. (It could still be found a negligence scenario which she has for SOME reason been unable to admit to her mother.) It isn't "victim bashing" to consider the influences which helped to shape KC. Further, it isn't "judging" an individual when it's behavior being faulted. Last as I've said it has nothing to do with whether KC ultimately should or will be held responsible, it's just a shame that this is the first time, apparently, that she ever has. JMO

 

[Spangle]

I am often on the same page as Chilly Willy especially on this topic.

Enabling children is very prevalent in the US. I know I personally see it in probably 1/2 of my friends. A few even to the extent of CA and Casey. I remember it in friends growing up. I see it in some of my relatives. What I have found that enabling encourages is lying. Lying lying and more lying.

Quite honestly, to get personal, if my husband were raising my girls alone...they would probably grow up to be liars 'cause he is a big enabler...the same as his parents enabled his sisters. His sisters are now 29 and 30 and still do not completely support themselves. They make up stories to how they got into car accidents (oh feel bad for me and buy me a new car, etc.) and why they need to find new jobs, etc. It is so infuriating.

My friends who enable their children have little kids that sneak behind your back to smack another kid and then innocently look at their parents like...I don't know what happened? They get in trouble in school and the parents are "helicopter parents" just like CA.

Sorry, I am rambling...the point is...these parents (and we all know them) are not being judged and trashed and blamed for their children's actions. No one is digging into the backgrounds of these children to figure out why they are as they are. Of course, I understand that they don't have a dead/missing grandchild on their record, but THAT IS MY POINT! Not all enabled children grow up to be killers!!! Not even the majority grow up to be killers!!! It isn't CA's enabling that made her a killer! It IS CA's enabling that made her a LIAR! The blood of Caylee is NOT on CA's hands.

Not all enabled people are murderers.
Not all murderers were enabled.

And sure, CA's media appearances, her own lying, etc. do not create a sympathetic character. I wouldn't be her friend my any means. But I also don't feel the need to judge because I can not possibly understand what she is going through. But, by constantly bashing CA and trying to find some way to place even partial blame on her for KC's actions, you are falling right into KC's trap. Couldn't you see her smug face in jail saying to her mother, "YOU made me kill her, mom. YOU made me kill her!"

Correct. But it goes along way towards opening up peoples eyes to a very real problem. Societies ills and school problems have been blamed on parents not doing enough with their children. That children should be protected from everything, etc.

Maybe some folks might realize that they themselves might need to back off a little bit, in their own personal life.

 

[MD MOMMY]

No. I don't think CA "taught KC to be a killer" but I do think she taught her that she could do all kinds of stupid things as long as she lied about them effectively.

Or lied about them ineffectively, but was never forced to suffer consequences/being called out..take your pick.

 

[MOMto5]

No. I don't think CA "taught KC to be a killer" but I do think she taught her that she could do all kinds of stupid things as long as she lied about them effectively.

Or lied about them ineffectively, but was never forced to suffer consequences/being called out..take your pick.

ITA. Whether KC "learned" the behavior or CA "taught" the behavior, the results are the same. But being allowed to lie without consequence taught her that this was an effective solution to any confrontation.