NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #2

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Nancy Grace has now covered the case with her own set of "experts":
Friday Crime Stories: Will mystery note left at murder scene crack case of murdered UNC Chapel Hill co-ed Faith Hedgepeth?
Pretty much all re-hash that doesn't move the case along, but at least she has a wide audience and reach that will introduce the case to further people.
The one new bit (I didn't recall hearing before) was an assertion from one of her guests that the cell-phone provider involved in the famous butt-dial call DID have a "glitch" in service that night that could throw the time-stamp off by 2 hrs. -- is that just some rumor, or does anyone know if that's been confirmed???
 
Nancy Grace has now covered the case with her own set of "experts":
Friday Crime Stories: Will mystery note left at murder scene crack case of murdered UNC Chapel Hill co-ed Faith Hedgepeth?
Pretty much all re-hash that doesn't move the case along, but at least she has a wide audience and reach that will introduce the case to further people.
The one new bit (I didn't recall hearing before) was an assertion from one of her guests that the cell-phone provider involved in the famous butt-dial call DID have a "glitch" in service that night that could throw the time-stamp off by 2 hrs. -- is that just some rumor, or does anyone know if that's been confirmed???

I had heard the same thing early on into the investigation and haven't heard an official comment on it. Which is interesting.
 
Thinking out loud:
Does anyone believe that CHPD knows who was involved? If so, what do you think is holding up an arrest? There is so much physical evidence. Anyone know the actual cellphone provider and could verify that there indeed was a time-stamp glitch? Does anyone believe the DNA is a red herring? Possibly being from an actual consenting encounter? IMO-I think it is just a little too convenient the DNA was found on Faith and on a note and pen yet nothing on the note? IMO- sloppy staging. What do you guys think? I apologize, I'm all over the place.
 
Thinking out loud:
Does anyone believe that CHPD knows who was involved? If so, what do you think is holding up an arrest? There is so much physical evidence. Anyone know the actual cellphone provider and could verify that there indeed was a time-stamp glitch? Does anyone believe the DNA is a red herring? Possibly being from an actual consenting encounter? IMO-I think it is just a little too convenient the DNA was found on Faith and on a note and pen yet nothing on the note? IMO- sloppy staging. What do you guys think? I apologize, I'm all over the place.

I don’t think CHPD has much of a clue (other than perhaps suspecting some haven't told all they know)… this has been a hugely embarrassing case for them, and am sure they’d love nothing more than to solve it if they could …sometimes I even worry there could be an eventual rush-to-judgment in the desire to put the case behind them :(

…and I don’t think the DNA is a red herring — CHPD has been sketchy about a lot of things, but has always held steadfast that the multiply-found DNA IS that of the perp. I think this was a crime of sudden impulse/rage without much time for any rational “staging” (just my take); though admittedly I still don’t comprehend the note & bag???
...as far as a time-stamp glitch; I don't know, again CHPD always seems firm that they believed the time as recorded was accurate.
 
Does anyone believe that CHPD knows who was involved?

I really don't think so. I think they maybe initially strongly suspected a few people, but were forced to conclude, based on the DNA evidence, that they weren't the killer. They've made the statement multiple times to the effect that they have great evidence but no one to connect it to.


Does anyone believe the DNA is a red herring? Possibly being from an actual consenting encounter? IMO-I think it is just a little too convenient the DNA was found on Faith and on a note and pen yet nothing on the note? IMO- sloppy staging. What do you guys think?

Alright. Let's think for a minute about the series of events that would have to happen for that to work.

1. Either Faith or Karena has to have sex with this guy within a day or two of the killing (that stuff doesn't stay in gelatinous form forever).
2. The consenting partner has to be a total stranger with no connection to either woman, since the investigation reaches 800+ people, but never him.
3. Faith or Karena, whichever it was, has to not say anything about this hook-up to anyone, or else someone would have mentioned his existence by now.
4. Assuming a condom was used, it had to remain in the apartment between the encounter and the murder (it could have just been thrown away in the garbage, but it's far more common for people to flush them).
5. The killer had to either know of its existence or randomly stumble upon it in the garbage and realize its utility.
6. The killer not only has to plant the semen on Faith to stage a sexual assault, but also somehow plant matching contact DNA on the pen, bottle, and note (I'm virtually certain that the note also had DNA on it, though I would have to go back and look for a source.).

To me, that all seems very, very unlikely. I've never seen any reason to believe that the DNA evidence was anything other than what it appears to be.
 
Nancy Grace has now covered the case with her own set of "experts":
Friday Crime Stories: Will mystery note left at murder scene crack case of murdered UNC Chapel Hill co-ed Faith Hedgepeth?
Pretty much all re-hash that doesn't move the case along, but at least she has a wide audience and reach that will introduce the case to further people.
The one new bit (I didn't recall hearing before) was an assertion from one of her guests that the cell-phone provider involved in the famous butt-dial call DID have a "glitch" in service that night that could throw the time-stamp off by 2 hrs. -- is that just some rumor, or does anyone know if that's been confirmed???
I have this in my notes and I personally have to give LE the benefit of the doubt that they would not discount it without valid reason:
Police “used multiple sources to corroborate” timestamp of 01:23AM on voicemail. Based on the timestamp it occurred in The Thrill when FH was still alive. Based on: Expert, police dispute voicemail in Faith Hedgepeth case
 
I really don't think so. I think they maybe initially strongly suspected a few people, but were forced to conclude, based on the DNA evidence, that they weren't the killer. They've made the statement multiple times to the effect that they have great evidence but no one to connect it to.




Alright. Let's think for a minute about the series of events that would have to happen for that to work.

1. Either Faith or Karena has to have sex with this guy within a day or two of the killing (that stuff doesn't stay in gelatinous form forever).
2. The consenting partner has to be a total stranger with no connection to either woman, since the investigation reaches 800+ people, but never him.
3. Faith or Karena, whichever it was, has to not say anything about this hook-up to anyone, or else someone would have mentioned his existence by now.
4. Assuming a condom was used, it had to remain in the apartment between the encounter and the murder (it could have just been thrown away in the garbage, but it's far more common for people to flush them).
5. The killer had to either know of its existence or randomly stumble upon it in the garbage and realize its utility.
6. The killer not only has to plant the semen on Faith to stage a sexual assault, but also somehow plant matching contact DNA on the pen, bottle, and note (I'm virtually certain that the note also had DNA on it, though I would have to go back and look for a source.).

To me, that all seems very, very unlikely. I've never seen any reason to believe that the DNA evidence was anything other than what it appears to be.

Agree with all of this... but... it's far more common to flush condoms than to toss them in the trash?!? I trust your word since you're a guy, but I had no idea. I don't think that's true in my experience, but then again, I've never been the end user, so.....................
 
Forgive me and my memory, as I am sure this has been discussed- but did LE ever confirm the DNA left on Faith and the pen/note was semen? After having just watched Making a Murderer Season 2, they discuss the 4 types of DNA that can be tested for at a crime scene. Blood, semen, saliva and sweat. Imagine a scenario where the killer is so enraged, that after he bashes her with the bottle, he spits on her. You see this often in fights, sports etc when guys get "amped up". I also think this is a deep form of disrespect. If the guy was someone who knew her, who's advances she had shunned. Or maybe someone she had a run in with that night at the club, or at Time Out etc. Now imagine, he's also sweaty from the murderous act, and its his sweat touch DNA they are able to pick up from the pen and note. I have a hard time connecting semen- presumed to have been left on Faith, with semen also on a pen and note. Did he rub it on the pen and note? seems strange
 
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Forgive me and my memory, as I am sure this has been discussed- but did LE ever confirm the DNA left on Faith and the pen/note was semen? After having just watched Making a Murderer Season 2, they discuss the 4 types of DNA that can be tested for at a crime scene. Blood, semen, saliva and sweat. Imagine a scenario where the killer is so enraged, that after he bashes her with the bottle, he spits on her. You see this often in fights, sports etc when guys get "amped up". I also think this is a deep form of disrespect. If the guy was someone who knew her, who's advances she had shunned. Or maybe someone she had a run in with that night at the club, or at Time Out etc. Now imagine, he's also sweaty from the murderous act, and its his sweat touch DNA they are able to pick up from the pen and note. I have a hard time connecting semen- presumed to have been left on Faith, with semen also on a pen and note. Did he rub it on the pen and note? seems strange

not clear to me where your confusion over the DNA stems from... semen was on Faith, and I've always presumed (but admit I don't recall if it was specifically reported) that the DNA on bag, pen, and I believe the bottle, were all from touch DNA (that matched the semen DNA). (I've even heard it reported that there was other matching touch DNA in the apt., but not sure if that's accurate, though certainly possible the perp touched many more areas.)
 
not clear to me where your confusion over the DNA stems from... semen was on Faith, and I've always presumed (but admit I don't recall if it was specifically reported) that the DNA on bag, pen, and I believe the bottle, were all from touch DNA (that matched the semen DNA). (I've even heard it reported that there was other matching touch DNA in the apt., but not sure if that's accurate, though certainly possible the perp touched many more areas.)
Right. I've read every reply on both threads, and looked at Gaspo and watched 20/20....I just don't remember if it was actually semen that was found on her. Did the autopsy say she was sexually assaulted for sure? I guess I am reaching for straws with my theory of the DNA being saliva and sweat instead of semen. Not like it would matter anyway, it's been 6+ years and still nothing
 
Right. I've read every reply on both threads, and looked at Gaspo and watched 20/20....I just don't remember if it was actually semen that was found on her. Did the autopsy say she was sexually assaulted for sure? I guess I am reaching for straws with my theory of the DNA being saliva and sweat instead of semen. Not like it would matter anyway, it's been 6+ years and still nothing

There was semen on her.
 
Do you have a link for that? I thought the last news doc we watched explained the autopsy as showing no signs of sexual assault?

Here's one example:

Is this the face of UNC student Faith Hedgepeth’s killer?

"Hedgepeth, 19, was found beaten to death Sept. 7, 2012 and semen was collected in a sexual assault kit."

If you're going by the Breaking Homicide episode, there was a lot in there that wasn't consistent with what had previously been reported.
 
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We really have to take these little website news articles with a grain of salt CADwrest.

I think we learned from investigation discovery that the autopsy reported no semen on or inside Faith. So there was no sexual assault kit to test.

Who Killed Faith? | Breaking Homicide

At this point I've reverted back to my original theory. I think there may have been something brewing between Faith and her roommate. The downstairs neighbor reported hearing a loud thump on the appartment floor shortly after the pair returned from the bar. The sound of that seems very telling to me.

As far as the DNA, it could have come from anywhere.

Touch DNA?

Maybe?
 
I think we learned from investigation discovery that the autopsy reported no semen on or inside Faith. So there was no sexual assault kit to test.

What Breaking Homicide did was have an expert examine the autopsy report. He said that since there were no injuries to her vagina and the report did not mention semen being found inside her, he could rule out her being raped. The show then made the rather egregious error of assuming that no semen was found at all, despite that fact being widely reported in earlier media reports, and despite that sort of information being in the purview of the crime scene investigator and not the coroner. As I said at the time, it was a massive research failure on the part of the show, and if there's something that needs to be taken with a grain of salt, it's Breaking Homicide.
 
  • Except Faith texted BE 4 minutes before KR started her consecutive phone calls to BE. Faith texted at 3:40 and then again at 3:43 to correct first text. IMO, I always thought that was odd. Usually, IMO, if you make a mistake texting you usually see it right away and send the correction immediately. In texting world 3 minutes is a long time. IMO. Faith then texts Ty at 3:52...KR calls BE: 3:44,3:52,3:55, and 4:14. I find the timing of the texts and calls suspicious. IMO, there seemed to be a lot of desperation in the calls and content of the text messages. The fact her Facebook page was accessed around 3:30-3:40 (cannot remember the exact time at the moment) and it has mostly been stating “someone” accessed her Facebook makes me think LE knows it wasn’t her, which is why I question if it was actually Faith making those text messages. IMO, I think Faith was killed in Karena’s presence. The first thought of whoever was involved was to get either Ty or BE to come to the apartment to “discover” Faith. Leaving the door unlocked would make it easy for either one of them to just walk in. JMO. I am further more concerned that the CI, from what I’ve been told, is a relative of ETJ. Perhaps something happened that the CI saw, knew, or participated in...which could create quite the mess for the department he “worked” with...all IMO. Just thoughts. It’s late so if it doesn’t make sense-my apologies. #JusticeforFaith
 
Just to avoid retreading endlessly over things that have already been covered, and to spark some discussion, I’ll just share where I am in my thinking of the case.

In the time since I’ve really been looking at it, I’ve lurched between several different scenarios, from ETJ doing it through an intermediary, to a kind of beta male from the club or school getting obsessed with her and deciding to surprise her at home, to where I am now, which is thinking it was a random male who lived close to her at the apartment complex.

Acknowledging that police have repeatedly say they don’t think that’s the case, I think that makes the most sense for two reasons.

The first is that, as wide as the investigation spread, they never were able to connect the DNA evidence with anyone in her social circle or several levels beyond it. Even if this person wasn’t someone with an immediately obvious connection to her, at some point, in some interview, someone who knew her would have looked at the DNA phenotype picture and said “Oh, I know him, he was the guy Faith knew through (whatever).” That’s apparently never happened, or if it did, the lead turned out to be false.

The second reason is because, of all the trails the investigation followed, it seems the one LE put the least stock in was “random killer who did not know the victim.” And honestly, that made sense at the time. One suspect had directly threatened to kill her; another had a disturbing history of stalking her; another was an on and off again hometown boyfriend who had reason to be jealous; one was her roommate who had engaged in suspicious behavior the night she died; and beyond all of those, there was the fact that she’d visited a rowdy club hours before she died, so who knows what attention she may have attracted there?

If you look at the history of the investigation, you see a lot of attention on the obvious suspects at first (ETJ, TM, Alex), then a shift to the less obvious ones (JB, several of the club guys) about six months later. But one of the Gaspo blog posts mentions that they didn’t seriously interview the people in the complex until a full year later. That was a lot of time for the trail to go cold.

At this point, I really think there’s a simple answer here. That night, some sketchy guy was awake and out and about in the complex. He was probably just staying with someone there short term. He might not have even been thinking about committing a crime, or if he was, I seriously doubt he had murder on his mind. I think maybe he was nearby and noticed when KR and JM left, so he decided to go try the door; finding it unlocked, went in to see what he could steal. He grabbed a couple of bottles of alcohol from the kitchen, maybe a few other things, then went into the bedroom to see what he could steal there. I think he was shocked to see Faith there, and she either woke up or started to, and he panicked and attacked her with what was in his hand, the Bacardi bottle.

I don’t think the assault lasted long or made much noise, and I don’t think she fought him beyond instinctively trying to fend off the bottle with her hands, which is where the injuries to her fingers and hands come from. Once she was dead, he ejaculated on her either as a sign of disrespect or even to suggest a motive that wasn’t there. He wrote the note on the first thing he saw (the Time Out bag) for the same two reasons. Not wanting his true motive (burglary) to be obvious, he didn’t take anything with him. He was probably out of the apartment less than ten minutes after Faith was dead.

I think he was probably gone the next day, and whoever he was staying with probably didn’t think anything of it, both because he was never supposed to be there permanently, and because it was widely assumed early on, by both the immediate neighbors and police, that ETJ had committed the murder.

So… go ahead, tear my theory to shreds. If there’s something inconsistent with the facts as we know them, or you find some aspect of it totally implausible, point it out. Convince me I’m wrong!
 
I dont know CADwrest. The scenario you are describing would have made a great deal of noise, and probably would have awakened the very observant neighbor that lived in the appartment below.

It really seems like the murderer was filled with rage of somesort. Usually burglars are calculated and quiet.
 

Scadagirl28, you bring up some very good points. The timing of the Facebook login/text messages seem very inconsistent with someone that would be preparing for sleep after a long/day night. I dont think this activity was committed by Faith.
 
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