NC - Five kids, ages 8-17, killed in murder-suicide, Pleasant Garden, 20 Nov 2011

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NCMOM said:
Exactly, something smells rotten. This is a terrible tragedy! Listen to the 911 call from his WIFE. She is stalling. This all doesn't add up to make any sense at all.
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I would like to listen to the 911 call, could someone give me a link, pretty please?
 
LizzyV said:
We have no idea what went down Saturday afternoon, Saturday night - there could have been a tipping point Saturday night that pushed her over the edge....

...saw another quote today from the Crouch father that said she had recently "found THE ONE"....who knows, maybe it fell apart, maybe her older son was ready to leave the nest, maybe a child wanted to live with the father, we only know the tiny drips we're getting from a few news sources, the rest is a big guess and we all have different conclusions..

Eventually we'll know some of the forensic facts and maybe some details from her letters.

All I know is I've only dealt a bit with the courts in my lifetime, all of this court drama and lawsuits and custody stuff in these lives, wow!
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I've been following this one from the first and I just have the feeling that there is more to the story.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
But didn't she go to meet Randy and then shot him? If she feared him why would she go there?
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This is what Randy told police. No witnesses saw her meet him at GTCC and there is no video. All of this is Randy Lamb's word. And then instead of calling 911 he called his wife and drove 15 mins home after she shot him at GTCC. His wife called 911. I just find that all very strange.

But also she met him Sat night at Walmart to give him the $$.

I don't know, it's all so convoluted. All of the parties involved clearly had major issues.
 
Waitingfortheverdict said:
Rocky Smith, MAH's ex husband said he saw no indication anything was wrong and that she bought a car load of groceries the day before the shootings.
Who stocks the refrigerator the day before killing everyone that lives in the home?

http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-sto...asant-garden-shootings-111128,0,7343431.story
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This is a crazy case, but just the fact she didn't seem suicidal the day before doesn't mean much. There was a famous soccer coach (or some sports team) in the UK who just killed himself over the weekend and had been on talk shows and hanging out with fans right before he hung himself. People can snap in a second.

If the suicide notes are found to be legit, that's good for me. I do find it curious about why the ex-boyfriend called his wife insted of 911 and why there was a long delay from that call to the wife's 911 call. That seems very suspicious. But I understand the police saw Holder kill a child in the car and then herself. Sounds like she was spiraling out of control over something.
 
...i'm interested in the toxicology reports on MAH...just don't seem right...i don't understand y in the world a man shot twice in the shoulder would not call 911 instead of his wife....u know there had to be some pain with this injury....and how could he drive 15 minutes with wounds of this sort....a mother that talks to her oldest daughter 50 times a day...(as reported by mAH oldest daughter)....and then shoots her children, and then herself....just don't make sense.....where was jennifer during all of this...and has her whereabouts been confirmed...just asking....
 
joybell said:
...i'm interested in the toxicology reports on MAH...just don't seem right...i don't understand y in the world a man shot twice in the shoulder would not call 911 instead of his wife....u know there had to be some pain with this injury....and how could he drive 15 minutes with wounds of this sort....a mother that talks to her oldest daughter 50 times a day...(as reported by mAH oldest daughter)....and then shoots her children, and then herself....just don't make sense.....where was jennifer during all of this...and has her whereabouts been confirmed...just asking....
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I think it was a flight to safety and once he was in his car he just kept heading home....we don't know if he indeed went to work that morning and she intercepted him near work or if she called and said either meet me or I'm coming to your house, we really don't know...

In this interview with her daughter and ex, neither seems to express any doubt she's the shooter, and when reporter quotes what police state there is no use of the word "alleged" in regards to her being the killer of the children.
http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-sto...asant-garden-shootings-111128,0,7343431.story

As the daughter states in interview.... ""I believe that everything has happened for a reason that led up to this moment. I will never know those reasons. I don't think I need to know those reasons," said Christina...
 
joybell said:
...i'm interested in the toxicology reports on MAH...just don't seem right...i don't understand y in the world a man shot twice in the shoulder would not call 911 instead of his wife....u know there had to be some pain with this injury....and how could he drive 15 minutes with wounds of this sort....a mother that talks to her oldest daughter 50 times a day...(as reported by mAH oldest daughter)....and then shoots her children, and then herself....just don't make sense.....where was jennifer during all of this...and has her whereabouts been confirmed...just asking....
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Maybe he was afraid MAH was coming for his wife & the call was partly to warn her & he was rushing home to protect his wife.
 
Just speculation...what if someone else shot everyone but MAH and her one son? If she witnessed the shootings, she may have gone to pick up her son and felt so desperate that she did shoot herself and him.

It is possible for someone to shoot themself in a non-lethal way or even to ask someone else to shoot them (to frame someone else).

I just hope there's a full investigation becuz I think that most want the truth, whatever it is.
 
Cazzie said:
Just speculation...what if someone else shot everyone but MAH and her one son? If she witnessed the shootings, she may have gone to pick up her son and felt so desperate that she did shot herself and him.

It is possible for someone to shoot themself in a non-lethal way or even to ask someone else to shoot them (to frame someone else).

I just hope there's a full investigation becuz I think that most want the truth, whatever it is.
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No, I don't think it's possible.
 
...I do believe there is more to this case...there is alot of things that really don't add up....
 
BrownRice said:
This is a crazy case, but just the fact she didn't seem suicidal the day before doesn't mean much. There was a famous soccer coach (or some sports team) in the UK who just killed himself over the weekend and had been on talk shows and hanging out with fans right before he hung himself. People can snap in a second.

If the suicide notes are found to be legit, that's good for me. I do find it curious about why the ex-boyfriend called his wife insted of 911 and why there was a long delay from that call to the wife's 911 call. That seems very suspicious. But I understand the police saw Holder kill a child in the car and then herself. Sounds like she was spiraling out of control over something.
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The police have stated they did NOT actually see Holder kill herself or Zack in the car. Only that he saw a puff of smoke as he approached the car.
 
So by law, i could marry a fella in NC -have a bit on the side- and my hubby can make them pay big $
The wife of Mr Lamb asked that he pick up the $10,000 cheque- Mr Lamb says i'm going to enjoy driving my new car (please don't make me look for those quotes)
I've seen some comments that say she knew he was married - well i'm sure she did - but the way i see it - he caused the problem - he was even low enough to take money from her. It was his choice wander from his wife -- if there is a law - it should be for the one that forgot they made legal promises.
Other than being ashamed that your mom commited suicide, which is selfcentered - i don't understand death of the young - and poor grandma and family - i don't even want to try to imagine what they are going thru- some times theres nothing right to say
 
Yes, the law exists and it's called "alienation of affections." I don't believe it exists in every state. But where the law does exist, if somebody fools around with married man or woman the wronged spouse can file a civil lawsuit claiming "alienation of affections."
 
jjenny said:
No, I don't think it's possible.
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Actually there are several cases where the guilty have injured themselves to make it look as if someone else did it. Jeffrey McDonald stabbed himself during the crime of murdering his entire family. The Justin Barber case was a real doozie. He goggled on where he could shoot himself and not die. He was convicted of the murder of his wife on a beach in Florida. He shot himself four times I believe.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sIjGBQ&usg=AFQjCNEdegynFmlQmVpyFHMdAi1VWu5HQw
 
lonetraveler said:
Actually there are several cases where the guilty have injured themselves to make it look as if someone else did it. Jeffrey McDonald stabbed himself during the crime of murdering his entire family. The Justin Barber case was a real doozie. He goggled on where he could shoot himself and not die. He was convicted of the murder of his wife on a beach in Florida. He shot himself four times I believe.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sIjGBQ&usg=AFQjCNEdegynFmlQmVpyFHMdAi1VWu5HQw
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I was responding to the first part of that post. The idea that somebody witnessing a series of murders committed by somebody else then decides to kill herself and her son makes no sense.
 
If I remember correctly, that Alienation of Affection law was an archaic law still on the books until a woman used it in a case here several years ago. I think we should have it taken off the books. It was made for a different time (and may have been a good idea for then).

My heart goes out to the friends and family in this case. So sad :(
 
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