NC - Five kids, ages 8-17, killed in murder-suicide, Pleasant Garden, 20 Nov 2011

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Can someone explain what this check was for? Why would she need to avoid an Alienation of Affection lawsuit if they were reconciling?
 
Shelby2 said:
Can someone explain what this check was for? Why would she need to avoid an Alienation of Affection lawsuit if they were reconciling?
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I think it's just a *advertiser censored** you from the spurned spouse to the former lover. Basically, you disrupted my life (albeit temporarily) and you'll pay for it. From what I've read there was no court ruling on it, so it was settled out of court - which I found odd. Why on earth would Holder settle? And where did she get $10k? I wonder if the check was even payable? She was a single mom with 5 kids working at a temp job. More questions than answers.
 
Originally Posted by BrownRice "I think it's just a *advertiser censored** you from the spurned spouse to the former lover. Basically, you disrupted my life (albeit temporarily) and you'll pay for it. From what I've read there was no court ruling on it, so it was settled out of court - which I found odd. Why on earth would Holder settle? And where did she get $10k? I wonder if the check was even payable? She was a single mom with 5 kids working at a temp job. More questions than answers. "

I can't recall which paper I read this in or whether it was in Sheriff's statement on local newscast, but he definitely stated she had the money to cover the check....which my mind immediately wondered "how?" Raising all those kids and a basic admin job....maybe an inheritance? A lot to have in the bank for most 2 income homes these days in my mind.

I believe she probably paid the $10K to avoid dirty laundry while she was fighting for custody of the Suttles kids. I can't get my mind around the fact she was stating the kid's dad wasn't good enough to raise them yet she took their lives.....and re-reading the Suttle's mom obit "She was preceded in death by her sister, Mary Leigh Hunt; her brother, John Ross Hunt"... so a lot of upheaval in all those families (and different last names, Hunt, Smith) ...and why didn't her own brother Robert have her kids rather than Mary Ann? Very complicated & messy lives there all around.....
 
I thought their real dad did not have his kids because he abused his wife, hurting her badly enough that she went into labor with the baby she had right before she died. I am pretty sure that was in one of the articles linked here.
 
From LizzyV's link:

Holder was there again — and not the father — when Carrie Suttles gave birth to Shianne earlier this year.

Brian Suttles hurt his estranged wife badly enough to send her into labor Feb. 12, Holder said. Shianne arrived on Valentine’s Day, her life already in turmoil; the hospital placed Carrie Suttles under protection, banning Brian Suttles from the grounds.
It’s unclear whether anyone filed a police report. Suttles declined to be interviewed for this article.
Things grew more grim. By Feb. 19, the new mother had pneumonia and was hooked to a ventilator.
http://www.news-record.com/content/2011/11/26/article/answers_elusive_in_rampage
 
Shelby2 said:
From LizzyV's link:

Holder was there again — and not the father — when Carrie Suttles gave birth to Shianne earlier this year.

Brian Suttles hurt his estranged wife badly enough to send her into labor Feb. 12, Holder said. Shianne arrived on Valentine’s Day, her life already in turmoil; the hospital placed Carrie Suttles under protection, banning Brian Suttles from the grounds.
It’s unclear whether anyone filed a police report. Suttles declined to be interviewed for this article.
Things grew more grim. By Feb. 19, the new mother had pneumonia and was hooked to a ventilator.
http://www.news-record.com/content/2011/11/26/article/answers_elusive_in_rampage
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Oh, I completely agree he was obviously unstable and not a man who deserved custody of his kids, but I'm guessing the kids would have survived a childhood with him as many children do and they would have gone onto living whatever lives they were meant to live - she took that option away playing God. That's what was in my mind with my earlier post.....just sad for it all.
 
I'm still thinking there is more (!) to this story, as if it isn't convoluted enough...

If Mary Ann killed anyone, NOT that I condone it, but I can certainly understand her wanting to, based on what happened to Carrie and her baby, and all the other "stuff" that went on. If she did it, perhaps she saw no way out, no good future for those kids, and thought she was saving them from you-know-who. Perhaps the system failed her, and them...IDK.

Very tragic...and I hope that LE is investigating thoroughly.
 
BrownRice said:
Yea, it seems pretty open and shut to me. In the local media, I read some of the comments of her friends/family saying there is more to the story, but if there are 2 letters she left saying she did it, what am I missing?

I "get" how she would want to kill herself and her ex-lover (I understand it, don't really get it). But, it makes no sense why all the kids.
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I live in Greensboro. It's not so open and shut just yet. LE says they *think* Mary Ann Holder was the lone shooter but they are still investigating. They said "Randy Lamb is not a suspect AT THIS TIME." They are running ballistics tests on all guns, etc. Recovered fro Lamb's house was a box of ammunition with 7 bullets missing = 7 people were shot. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not.

The 8y.o. and 17 y.o. Ricky Suttles that both died (all 6 kids are dead now) were her niece and nephew. The woman that died in March was her SIL AND best friend. MAH was in court on Nov. 18 to file for permanent custody of these 2 kids plus the infant that her older daughter (only survivors besides Lamb) that she has been taking care of. TWo days after filing for legal custody, she shoots her kids? It just doesn't make sense.

LE has stated in several local newspapers that the 2 letters found were written in 2 different handwritings. They have not released them.

Also curious to me is that MAH called her son Zack from the deceased teenage girl's cell phone - she called from her phone to arrange to pick him up from the sleepover. Why use the girl's phone she's just shot? Why not use her own phone or house phone? Makes me think someone else was there. And why was a 15 yo in the backseat of the car when she picked him up. LE has also stated they *think* they saw her shoot herself, they aren't certain. They saw smoke in the car, that is all. And why kill the son's girlfriend? MAH also had an older daughter who was taking care of the infant daughter of her dead SIL - why not kill her too?

I will wait until ballistics come back before I believe MAH did all the shootings. Maybe she did but there is so much that does not add up. And add to the fact that the dad of the 3 nieces/nephews was a drug dealer that recently wanted custody back and MAH went to fight it 2 days before the shootings, it to me brings another possible motive/suspect.
 
jjenny said:
Well I am not surprised to see a post like this considering a woman is accused of all these murders. If this was a man people are generally not that "understanding."
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I totally agree with you !!! Really, some women can be SO MUCH SCARIER compared to men, especially when they dead-set want something and are the type to let NOTHING get in their way.

just my opinion
 
It just keeps getting messier and messier with more questions.

Local Fox 8 TV news here in Greensboro just reported LE has uncovered 2 civil court injunctions MAH filed in late July. The first restraining order she filed expired in July (she had one against the Lambs and vice versa). MAH then filed two injunctions against Randy Lamb and his wife, Jennifer, separately stating they were not to come near her or her children - that she had been threatened by them repeatedly (which was also stated in her restraining order). The injunctions did not expire until 2013.

Also in the injunction MAH asked that charges be dropped against her brother, James Holder, for threatening Randy Lamb with a gun. It was not clear when this happened but prior to July. Charges were dropped.

The fact her brother threatened Lamb with a gun makes me think MAH was being threatened by the Lambs. Not that it was right for her brother to threaten Lamb with a gun, but I can understand wanting to protect your sister if her life or children's lives are being threatened.

If you'll notice, the restraining order that Jennifer Lamb filed against MAH did not say MAH was threatening her - only preventing reconciliation with her husband with texting, calls, etc. It did say MAH tried to run her car off the road though. MAH filed a restraining order saying Randy Lamb harassed her, calling 100 times in one day, driving by her house and threatening her.

These latest findings make me believe that MAH was afraid for her life and her kids in order to file not just another restraining order but an injunction. I may be wrong and maybe MAH did snap and kill those kids, but there are so many questions and things not adding up. The sheriff was interviewed during this news story and stated that ballistics are being done on all of the Lamb's guns and the 2 guns MAH had in her car when they found her. I think I heard them say FBI has these. Not sure when reports will come back. They are also doing an autopsy on MAH to see if any drugs were in her system.

This was all just reported on the 6pm news. When there is a link I will post.
 
Tigerlily said:
It just keeps getting messier and messier with more questions.

Local Fox 8 TV news here in Greensboro just reported LE has uncovered 2 civil court injunctions MAH filed in late July. The first restraining order she filed expired in July (she had one against the Lambs and vice versa). MAH then filed two injunctions against Randy Lamb and his wife, Jennifer, separately stating they were not to come near her or her children - that she had been threatened by them repeatedly (which was also stated in her restraining order). The injunctions did not expire until 2013.

Also in the injunction MAH asked that charges be dropped against her brother, James Holder, for threatening Randy Lamb with a gun. It was not clear when this happened but prior to July. Charges were dropped.

The fact her brother threatened Lamb with a gun makes me think MAH was being threatened by the Lambs. Not that it was right for her brother to threaten Lamb with a gun, but I can understand wanting to protect your sister if her life or children's lives are being threatened.

If you'll notice, the restraining order that Jennifer Lamb filed against MAH did not say MAH was threatening her - only preventing reconciliation with her husband with texting, calls, etc. It did say MAH tried to run her car off the road though. MAH filed a restraining order saying Randy Lamb harassed her, calling 100 times in one day, driving by her house and threatening her.

These latest findings make me believe that MAH was afraid for her life and her kids in order to file not just another restraining order but an injunction. I may be wrong and maybe MAH did snap and kill those kids, but there are so many questions and things not adding up. The sheriff was interviewed during this news story and stated that ballistics are being done on all of the Lamb's guns and the 2 guns MAH had in her car when they found her. I think I heard them say FBI has these. Not sure when reports will come back. They are also doing an autopsy on MAH to see if any drugs were in her system.

This was all just reported on the 6pm news. When there is a link I will post.
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But didn't she go to meet Randy and then shot him? If she feared him why would she go there?
 
NCMOM said:
Your right, it makes no sense. If she was so enraged by the lover and his wife, she goes ahead and gives them the 10K and THEN kills her kids and herself? All shot in the head, but he gets off with a flesh wound in the shoulder. I call BS on this one. Those poor innocent children were massacred because of these adults stupidity.
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I agree, why pay the $10,000 if you are going to kill your family and yourself? Doesn't make sense.
 
lonetraveler said:
I agree, why pay the $10,000 if you are going to kill your family and yourself? Doesn't make sense.
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We have no idea what went down Saturday afternoon, Saturday night - there could have been a tipping point Saturday night that pushed her over the edge....

...saw another quote today from the Crouch father that said she had recently "found THE ONE"....who knows, maybe it fell apart, maybe her older son was ready to leave the nest, maybe a child wanted to live with the father, we only know the tiny drips we're getting from a few news sources, the rest is a big guess and we all have different conclusions..

Eventually we'll know some of the forensic facts and maybe some details from her letters.

All I know is I've only dealt a bit with the courts in my lifetime, all of this court drama and lawsuits and custody stuff in these lives, wow!
 
I thought the police saw the puff of smoke come from the gun inside of the SUV she was in and that is when they found one of her son's shot in the head and she had also shot herself.

imo
 
the one timeline from a previous link showed definitively that it was well past lambs 911 interaction when zach was eventually picked up by mom, etc. and multiple articles described the puff of smoke you mention

imo
 
LizzyV said:
the one timeline from a previous link showed definitively that it was well past lambs 911 interaction when zach was eventually picked up by mom, etc. and multiple articles described the puff of smoke you mention

imo
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Yep. No doubt after 911 call the guy was taken to the hospital so that's pretty good alibi if you ask me. I am guessing some people can't believe a woman can do all of what this one is accused of, and thus think a man has to be involved somewhere.
 
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