GUILTY NC - Jason Corbett, 39, murdered in his Wallburg home, 2 Aug 2015 #2

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I am seeking tests that will show a reliable time of death which I believe is fundamental to this case
this article states that perimortem fractures contain biomechanics that are present in antemortem fractures, but , because of death- the healing never took place
Source- http://www.academia.edu/2364375/Distinguishing_Between_Antemortem_Perimortem_and_Postmortem_Trauma

Throughout the years, forensic scientists and pathologists have searched for a definitive method of determining time of death, yet at present there is no single reliable method. Moreover, it is impossible to fix the exact time of death; hence, we refer to an estimated time. Based on an appreciation of a large number of variables, an experienced pathologist can arrive at a reasonable estimation of time of death; usually placing it within a range of hours. The process is subject to error, especially if some crucial piece of information is omitted. It should be noted, however, that this estimation certainly represents more than just an educated guess. It is a scientifically derived opinion based on a totality of specific factors distinctive to each particular case compared with ordinary time factors attributed to the pathological changes that occur in a human body.
Source- http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/LOmar2007.htm its written from perspective of homicide investigator as opposed to pure forensic pathology.

on same subject. I found this exciting development http://www.forensicimage.co.uk/index.php/forensic-test-can-pinpoint-exact-time-death/

here is another brief article wit useful links from a pathologist interested in forensicshttp://www.pathguy.com/TimeDead.htm
 
emmalpage81 said:
One of my main gripes has been whether CPR was actually performed on JC as suggested by the 911 call. At no point after commencing CPR do either MM or TM sound as though they are out of breath or tired. CPR is hard work. I was also surprised that the autopsy report did not remark on any injuries to the sternum or ribs which is, it seems, quite common.

I am not a doctor and have only done general first aid. I did find this link http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15036733 which tallies with what I was informed during my said first aid course although this only deals with 19 cases.

I also found this study http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0300957215001136 which is somewhat informative.
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Excellent research on your part - well done. I am not a medical expert but I would have expected extensive injuries to the sternum if the person performing CPR found the patient unresponsive. Surely they would have pushed down harder and harder to get a response which would have almost certainly caused the type of injuries mentioned in the research?
 
peregrino said:
Excellent research on your part - well done. I am not a medical expert but I would have expected extensive injuries to the sternum if the person performing CPR found the patient unresponsive. Surely they would have pushed down harder and harder to get a response which would have almost certainly caused the type of injuries mentioned in the research?
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One of the main things that jumped out at me on the 911 call is when they turned Jason over and TM said 'He's a mess' and the operator said he would need to clear the blood to commence CPR, TM sends Molly to the en suite for a washcloth. It has always struck me as odd, surely if they were frantically trying to save him, they would have grabbed a sheet from the bed/a piece of disgarded clothing/something more readily to hand rather than wasting minutes leaving the room to get a washcloth?
 
Logic-lady said:
One of the main things that jumped out at me on the 911 call is when they turned Jason over and TM said 'He's a mess' and the operator said he would need to clear the blood to commence CPR, TM sends Molly to the en suite for a washcloth. It has always struck me as odd, surely if they were frantically trying to save him, they would have grabbed a sheet from the bed/a piece of disgarded clothing/something more readily to hand rather than wasting minutes leaving the room to get a washcloth?
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I think it is quite likely he was already dead when they made the eMT call.
A question that may be asked in court from the link I shared yesterday is frequently @why did you call emergency services before attempting to help the victim?'
Even a basic first aider would be able to determine death.

If that is true, the call was made with the sole intention of trying to prove in court they did not intend to kill Jason. It shows forethought and fore planning of their defence, its possible it even shows a time window when a plan like this could have been made.
 
Logic-lady said:
One of the main things that jumped out at me on the 911 call is when they turned Jason over and TM said 'He's a mess' and the operator said he would need to clear the blood to commence CPR, TM sends Molly to the en suite for a washcloth. It has always struck me as odd, surely if they were frantically trying to save him, they would have grabbed a sheet from the bed/a piece of disgarded clothing/something more readily to hand rather than wasting minutes leaving the room to get a washcloth?
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Absolutely! That has always bothered me too. It was TM's almost horror that he would have to clear the blood away that I found shocking. It didn't strike me as the reaction of someone who was frantically trying to save a life. Very disturbing.
 
peregrino said:
Absolutely! That has always bothered me too. It was TM's almost horror that he would have to clear the blood away that I found shocking. It didn't strike me as the reaction of someone who was frantically trying to save a life. Very disturbing.
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It was his reaction to Jason's face that made me think initially that Molly may have acted alone...was his obvious revulsion more the fact that his daughter could inflict such injuries, rather than someone recognising the damage they had just inflicted themselves?
 
Stomach contents from autopsy
The stomach contains approximately500 ml of thick, tan chyme with masticated fragments of green vegetable matter. The gastric andduodenal mucosae are intact and unremarkable. The small and large intestines and appendix areunremarkable to inspection and palpation.

Regarding the night of the murder and in an effort to figure what happened between the arrival of the senior martens at 20.30 and Jason's death I am putting forward some links to forensics on the amount of time food remains in the stomach while the patient is alive. Some of these contradict others but some are quite interesting

http://www.mitchpileggi.net/Deep_Background/resources/forensics/bodies.htm 'a light meal is out of the stomach in 60-90 minutes. Remember, no digestion or changes take place following death - to the movement of gastric contents to the duodenum.
This is interesting because it it would suggest Jason consumed food less than an hour before he died.!!! Maybe much less than an hour..

It suggests he ate some food very very late at night and it suggests equally that he may have died much earlier than we have been informed.


http://intranet.tdmu.edu.ua/data/ka...tion of early and late changes in a body..htm

this is a very comprehensive lecture, in it he states that tea/coffee(chyme) leaves the stomach in 15-20 minutes. Its worth a read though its long.

If we are to conclude Jason had food and drink LESS than 15 minutes before he died, are we to assume he ate and drank while naked, or was he undressed following his murder (i know miss marple would have a shot of sharon running through the golf course with a black bag of bloody clothes at this point, but we have no evidence she did anything at all)
or he was murdered immediately after eating or during eating??
 
Dumbfounded2 said:
Please do not be sorry. We are all here seeking the truth. I do not know the force or how may blows. Hinge fractures appear to be so rare that there are not a lot of references. Most, if not all references, always refer to a heavy blow to the side of the head, a fall from an extreme distance or a horrific motorcycle accident. References about the amount of force to cause skull fractures included mathematical equations that did not help me to understand. I have no idea about the amount of force needed or how many blows it took to cause Jason’s skull base to split in half. Based on the references below it must have been a compression and crushing blunt force trauma.
Sheriff Grice advised that Jason was bludgeoned to death with a baseball bat. Why was a baseball bat and landscaping paver used? Please see Baseball Bats: A Silent Weapon. Finger injuries are important, but minor compared to the catastrophic head injuries detailed in Jason’s Autopsy Report.
REFERENCES
Forensic Investigation of Cranial Injuries Due To Blunt Force Trauma (BFT): Current Best Practice: Lots of good info related to timing, types, etc.
[FONT=&amp]Classification of Cranial BFT[/FONT][FONT=&amp]: … Hinge fractures are defined as crushing injuries, such as compression of the head between the ground and a heavy object (ie, a car tire).[SUP]1,17,18[/SUP] Transverse hinge fractures extend across the dorsum sellae of the skull, and can separate it into two.[SUP]1,17,18 [/SUP][/FONT]
Table 2 Terminology of blunt force injuries on the skull (Truncated)
http://forensicholmes.blogspot.com/2013/11/skull-fracture.html: Puppe's rule states “The later fracture will terminate at (that is, not cross) the earlier fracture line”.
http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/pathology/head-injury/skull-fracture/
[FONT=&amp]Skull fractures may be classified by their appearance (Saukko and Knight 2004);[/FONT]
Linear – straight or curved fracture lines, which may radiate from a depressed region, or occur at a distance from the impact site, and tend to occur at ‘unsupported’ regions of the skull (e.g. across the supra-orbital ridges). Linear fractures in children or young adults may pass through the suture lines (‘diastatic fracture’). ‘Hinge’ fractures occur when the linear fracture passes across the middle cranial fossa, separating the skull base into 2 halves, and may be caused by a heavy blow to the side of the head (e.g. in motorcycle accidents).
Click to expand...

Hi Dunfounded2. This is a brilliant piece of research on your part. I do have a question though. If the skull fractures were caused by "crushing blunt force trauma" would that not suggest the other side of Jasons head was against something - perhaps a wall or the floor - as the blow was administered, to cause those sort of injuries i.e. it had to be crushed against something? That would not be consistent with a blow administered from behind if he were attacking Molly surely? If it were his forehead would have hit her head, wouldn't it?
 
Truthseeker79 said:
I take whatever she said on her Facebook page with a large pinch of salt. The Irish family are executors of the estate are they not? As I said I wasn't questioning who is actually selling it just surprised that legally it could be sold that's all.
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I believe the estate is frozen pending the outcome of the trial . That is why there was "uproar" about the removal of items. Molly would not be permitted to remove items deemed part of the estate of monetary value only personal belongings. This should have been done with either the executor or a representative for him present so an itemised list of items removed could be agreed on . There is an article on on Kates thread http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...2015-Media-Links-Documents-Only-No-Discussion
 
I did think previously that Jason may have been killed earler, but nowI am thinking that if Jason died hours before the EMT arrived, the EMT would notice the body temperature had cooled.
 
Logic-lady said:
One of the main things that jumped out at me on the 911 call is when they turned Jason over and TM said 'He's a mess' and the operator said he would need to clear the blood to commence CPR, TM sends Molly to the en suite for a washcloth. It has always struck me as odd, surely if they were frantically trying to save him, they would have grabbed a sheet from the bed/a piece of disgarded clothing/something more readily to hand rather than wasting minutes leaving the room to get a washcloth?
Click to expand...

I found it strange that two individuals trained (certified even) in first aid would have to be told to start cpr. Any first aid course would tell you to start it before calling for emergency services. The washcloth I find very strange.
 
emmalpage81 said:
I found it strange that two individuals trained (certified even) in first aid would have to be told to start cpr. Any first aid course would tell you to start it before calling for emergency services. The washcloth I find very strange.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, constructing an alibi was the first order of business.

I think Jason had been dead for quite awhile. How could they think that the two of them could inflict such a beating, and Jason would get up and go back to bed?
 
stmarysmead said:
In my opinion, constructing an alibi was the first order of business.

I think Jason had been dead for quite awhile. How could they think that the two of them could inflict such a beating, and Jason would get up and go back to bed?
Click to expand...
Could be difficult for them to prove strangulation attempt when he drank a cup of coffee less than 10 minutes before he died.. not exactly what one would do, is it? Bearing in mind the beating, though possibly not the fatal blow or blows would have taken a several minutes to complete?
 
kittythehare said:
Could be difficult for them to prove strangulation attempt when he drank a cup of coffee less than 10 minutes before he died.. not exactly what one would do, is it? Bearing in mind the beating, though possibly not the fatal blow or blows would have taken a several minutes to complete?
Click to expand...

Always remembering the an old man and a small woman had not a scratch on them.
 
stmarysmead said:
Always remembering the an old man and a small woman had not a scratch on them.
Click to expand...
If we were to go with their scenario
Jason ate some greens, drank a large mug of coffee or two, got naked, and attempted to strangle molly, thats assuming attack commenced in the bedroom and not the kitchen which is another possibility.. It was on the same floor as the bedroom in which the emergency staff found him, its also a possibility that part of the attack occurred in the kitchen and the remainder in the bedroom.
 
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.town...-11e5-80a2-cb827408349b/568fd60db6a63.pdf.pdf
This has probably been posted here already so apologies for double posting if so. The warrant was issued 18th August and in two weeks they had decided to cite First Degree murder as the reason for filing....a few things struck me reading it 1. MM and TM both admitted to striking JC, so she never claimed she never touched him 2. They say SM stayed in the basement the whole time? 3. Every rationale behind each search request was based on info provided by the deceased family and all was in pursuit of evidence to seek a murder charge against the 2 people, now of course there was no one else suspect so on one level that makes perfect sense. But, was there any search warrants issued at all throughout the investigation that sought to look into the self defence claims? Why SM stayed in the basement the whole time I don't know, perhaps the kids woke and she brought them down there to keep them away. Would have thought she would ring the police while down there though. One thing is we don't know what the searches showed up. Did they find the second baseball bat if there was one? Why would the child be describing his baseball bat and the colour of it and where it was kept with a grief counsellor? Bit odd.
 
kittythehare said:
Stomach contents from autopsy
The stomach contains approximately500 ml of thick, tan chyme with masticated fragments of green vegetable matter. The gastric andduodenal mucosae are intact and unremarkable. The small and large intestines and appendix areunremarkable to inspection and palpation.

Regarding the night of the murder and in an effort to figure what happened between the arrival of the senior martens at 20.30 and Jason's death I am putting forward some links to forensics on the amount of time food remains in the stomach while the patient is alive. Some of these contradict others but some are quite interesting

http://www.mitchpileggi.net/Deep_Background/resources/forensics/bodies.htm 'a light meal is out of the stomach in 60-90 minutes. Remember, no digestion or changes take place following death - to the movement of gastric contents to the duodenum.
This is interesting because it it would suggest Jason consumed food less than an hour before he died.!!! Maybe much less than an hour..

It suggests he ate some food very very late at night and it suggests equally that he may have died much earlier than we have been informed.


http://intranet.tdmu.edu.ua/data/ka...tion of early and late changes in a body..htm

this is a very comprehensive lecture, in it he states that tea/coffee(chyme) leaves the stomach in 15-20 minutes. Its worth a read though its long.

If we are to conclude Jason had food and drink LESS than 15 minutes before he died, are we to assume he ate and drank while naked, or was he undressed following his murder (i know miss marple would have a shot of sharon running through the golf course with a black bag of bloody clothes at this point, but we have no evidence she did anything at all)
or he was murdered immediately after eating or during eating??
Click to expand...

kitty---love your sense of humor and your knowledge of medical issues. It gets a bit too technical for me

Thanks for all your hard work :cheers:
 
wildebeest said:
kitty---love your sense of humor and your knowledge of medical issues. It gets a bit too technical for me

Thanks for all your hard work :cheers:
Click to expand...
I should have done it weeks ago, but I had a mental block on analysing it deeply.
Thanks to Dumbfounded for shifting that block very quickly.
Its the only evidence we have and so much can be discovered by reading it, researching it, it was worth the journey.
 
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