Just the Fax
Justice For The Fisher's
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NC - Kathy Taft, 62, Raleigh, 6 March 2010 - #1
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laces
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Somehow i missed this early on. i did not realize that police got DNA samples from the neighbors to eliminate them as suspects early on.
diphi
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Reckon she has read these boards?
If so, she better make a quick run to Mexico
My bet will be that she or her representatives have not...yet.
Noway
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Video http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/7298404/
They "promised" to only use the DNA in the Kathy Taft case and the evidence will be destroyed when the investigation is over.
ETA
BTW, the link above did not bring me right to the article but I saw it at the bottom ... http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/7293676/
This was today that they were asking for DNA from what I understand. They must have DNA on Kathy because neighbors' DNA might be elsewhere in the house. JMO
Noway
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Officers went door-to-door asking for voluntary samples last week, neighbors said. Two residents who provided samples said investigators told them the DNA was collected in an effort to eliminate suspects.
Experts say “elimination samples” are collected to help investigators focus on other suspects. Raleigh Police have declined to comment on this part of their investigation into the death of 62-year-old Kathy Taft.
ETA
Googled "elimination samples" and want to read but thought I'd post here at same time.
http://www.dna.gov/postconviction/h...s/pretestingconsiderations/eliminationsamples
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/bc000614.pdf
When DNA evidence is found at the scene of a crime, it can be compared to DNA obtained
from five classes of individuals. First, suspects in ongoing investigations may volunteer to supply
DNA samples, or they can be ordered to give samples by a court or grand jury. For brevity, we call
these “suspect samples.” Second, samples may be obtained purely to eliminate an individual as a
possible source of DNA left by the perpetrator of a crime. These can be called “elimination
samples.”1 Third, “victim samples” come from victims of violent crimes. Fourth, relatives of missing
persons sometimes provide DNA samples to assist in the identification of remains.2 Finally, DNA
profiles derived from “convicted offender samples” are routinely checked against crime-scene
samples.
http://homepages.law.asu.edu/~kayed/pubs/genlaw/ncfdna-nor-01.pdf
So it seems they have the perp's DNA and want to eliminate neighbors as suspects?
Experts say “elimination samples” are collected to help investigators focus on other suspects. Raleigh Police have declined to comment on this part of their investigation into the death of 62-year-old Kathy Taft.
ETA
Googled "elimination samples" and want to read but thought I'd post here at same time.
http://www.dna.gov/postconviction/h...s/pretestingconsiderations/eliminationsamples
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/bc000614.pdf
When DNA evidence is found at the scene of a crime, it can be compared to DNA obtained
from five classes of individuals. First, suspects in ongoing investigations may volunteer to supply
DNA samples, or they can be ordered to give samples by a court or grand jury. For brevity, we call
these “suspect samples.” Second, samples may be obtained purely to eliminate an individual as a
possible source of DNA left by the perpetrator of a crime. These can be called “elimination
samples.”1 Third, “victim samples” come from victims of violent crimes. Fourth, relatives of missing
persons sometimes provide DNA samples to assist in the identification of remains.2 Finally, DNA
profiles derived from “convicted offender samples” are routinely checked against crime-scene
samples.
http://homepages.law.asu.edu/~kayed/pubs/genlaw/ncfdna-nor-01.pdf
So it seems they have the perp's DNA and want to eliminate neighbors as suspects?
crocus
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They went door to door asking for voluntary samples???? No way (no pun intended....LOL) would I agree to this. Not in a million years. Not without probable cause warrant for such a request.... Such a request , to me, would have to be based on real factual dealings with the victim. And seeing as how this victim was only visiting, chances are slim to none the neighbors knew her.
diphi
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In her blog, WRAL's reporter Amanda Lamb discusses why it takes so long to solve a murder case.
"I have three recent examples. One is the investigation into the murder of state school board member Kathy Taft. It is just a few weeks old which is still young by the standards of most murder investigations in Wake County but dragging on according to a public eager to have answers about the safety of their community. Unfortunately, unlike television crime dramas, murder cases are not solved in an hour."
"In Wake County, for example, it used to take about a year for a murder case to come to trial. Now it can take as long as two years depending on the complexity of the case."
http://www.wral.com/news/local/blogpost/7296537/
"I have three recent examples. One is the investigation into the murder of state school board member Kathy Taft. It is just a few weeks old which is still young by the standards of most murder investigations in Wake County but dragging on according to a public eager to have answers about the safety of their community. Unfortunately, unlike television crime dramas, murder cases are not solved in an hour."
"In Wake County, for example, it used to take about a year for a murder case to come to trial. Now it can take as long as two years depending on the complexity of the case."
http://www.wral.com/news/local/blogpost/7296537/
Just the Fax
Justice For The Fisher's
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Not DNA from anyone that had "factual dealings" w/ Kathy Taft.
Elimination samples (fingerprints and DNA) are collected from anyone that was known to be in the house. Rest assured, there are unmatched prints and DNA from numerous guests of the homeowner, John Geil. Anyone that has been in the house needs to be eliminated. It is hard to believe they tested random neighbors that have not entered the house.
This case is getting stranger and stranger.
By asking random neighbors that have not entered the house for DNA tells me the cops are desperate and they believe the attack may have been random.....but we keep hearing about very odd behavior from the sister that could have a motive and certainly had opportunity.
EXACTLY! After reading the posts here about a certain family member, I was starting to feel more comfortable, but when I heard last night that they were asking people in the neigborhood to submit to DNA samples, I could hardly believe it! Now I am really shocked and starting to get very nervous again. The only explanation for seeking the identify of an unknown suspect, assuming the family member is involved, is if there were 2 of them involved, which sounds unlikely, but possible.
The story upthread about the sister's trips to the locked car and house seem VERY suspect to me. I'm totally confused and getting more and more angry. Is it possible the sister brought a guest home from the shopping center and doesn't want to reveal it? Was there another person in the house that the sister has not identified for some reason?
Noway
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If Kathy was sleeping in the master bedroom, I would think they could first just get elimination DNA and test against DNA in the bedroom, because obviously the killer was there.
I don't know that I would have given DNA if LE came door-to-door either if I had anything to hide in my life -- not specifically Kathy's murder.
I'm not sure I'd believe that they were only going to use it to test in the Kathy Taft case. That sounds like something LE would say then -- sorry, we lied.
Too much TV I guess.
I don't know that I would have given DNA if LE came door-to-door either if I had anything to hide in my life -- not specifically Kathy's murder.
I'm not sure I'd believe that they were only going to use it to test in the Kathy Taft case. That sounds like something LE would say then -- sorry, we lied.
Too much TV I guess.
What other case would they be testing for if not just the Taft murder? Are there other murders in the area that they have the same DNA that they can't identify? Young already has a def., as does Cooper.
I wonder if the point of this is to eliminate. What if they have some DNA not from the Cartier house, but from the house a block over, where they suspected a possible breakin? Maybe they want to locate who tried to break in to that house to rule them out in the Taft case, so that if they make an arrest of a family member, they can show with alibi or other evidence that the two are non-related. The family member could cast blame on the unknown person by pointing to an unknown suspect who also tried to break into the house nearby earlier in the week. LE may want to have the evidence to quash that theory. Just thinking out loud.
I just can't fathom LE and the DA's office really thinking this is random and not allerting the public more. I just don't know how they could do that.
I wonder if the point of this is to eliminate. What if they have some DNA not from the Cartier house, but from the house a block over, where they suspected a possible breakin? Maybe they want to locate who tried to break in to that house to rule them out in the Taft case, so that if they make an arrest of a family member, they can show with alibi or other evidence that the two are non-related. The family member could cast blame on the unknown person by pointing to an unknown suspect who also tried to break into the house nearby earlier in the week. LE may want to have the evidence to quash that theory. Just thinking out loud.
I just can't fathom LE and the DA's office really thinking this is random and not allerting the public more. I just don't know how they could do that.
The one thing that bothers me about Kathy's death continues to ring in my mind over and over. That one thing is that she had surgery, her head was wrapped, and the perp's method of killing her was a blow to the head. This leads me to believe that whoever struck that eventually fatal blow to Kathy's head knew well ahead of time that a. she was having surgery ; b. the surgery would result in her head being bandaged; c. knew where Kathy would be staying. IMHO those factors lessen the theory of a random attack. If random, why not stab her, shoot her, or use some other manner to injure her?? It seems to me that her head being wrapped in surgical bandages was a part of the perp's plan to (hopefully) get away with the murder and having Kathy's death attributed to "complications" of her surgery. Just too coincidental for me to believe it was truly "random". Who are the neighbors that DNA was taken from - did any of them know Kathy, and have any reason to want to injure/kill her??
We already know some of the strange behavior by one family member, and also of a comment that same family member made on a 911 call when she suggested "complications" from surgery. No, I am not LE or anything,but I am have some real difficulty thinking of Kathy's death as a random crime.
We already know some of the strange behavior by one family member, and also of a comment that same family member made on a 911 call when she suggested "complications" from surgery. No, I am not LE or anything,but I am have some real difficulty thinking of Kathy's death as a random crime.
Noway
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It would not to be a murder in the area. Could be a rape. Could be outside that area too. (ETA: Also, what if one of the neighbors was always a suspect in a crime but they could never justify a warrant for DNA -- and now this guy lives in that neighborhood and they have his DNA ... would they be obligated to destroy it without testing it for connection to that other crime?)
In other cases, when they have collected "elimination DNA" ... did they destroy that DNA too? Is that normal practice (to destroy it)? I don't know.
Noway
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In fact, elimination samples from third parties have routinely been obtained at the request of prosecutors, courts, and governors in more than a third of the postconviction DNA exonerations to date. The samples have generally been gathered on a voluntary basis, although in more than a few instances judges have made it clear to prosecutors that, in light of the DNA exclusion, the inmate's judgment would be vacated if the third-party samples were not produced.
http://www.dna.gov/postconviction/handling-requests/legalissues/consensualpartners
Not connected to KT's murder ... but you can see the importance of elimination DNA in some cases.
http://www.dna.gov/postconviction/handling-requests/legalissues/consensualpartners
Not connected to KT's murder ... but you can see the importance of elimination DNA in some cases.
diphi
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I can see it. I just wonder how much trouble they have getting people to agree to it. What's their spin? I imagine they have the most success when people are asked unexpectedly and don't take the opportunity to stop and really think it through. I wouldn't do it, no matter how much I wanted to help solve a case.
I agree, but if that is the case, then why the request for information from passerby citizens and for DNA samples of people in the neighborhood? That indicates an unknown DNA that is from the potential suspect, which doesn't mesh with the "known killer" theory.
Someone posted upthread about how LE handled the Stephanie Bennett case. I can't remember it very well. I know it scared me plenty, but I can't recall how long before they publically announced it was random. They had the killer's DNA then, but just couldn't get a match. I don't recall them asking her neighbors for voluntary samples, although that is possible. I had frieinds who lived in that apt. complex at the time. (2 males and a female) They were never asked to volunteer DNA.
If LE has DNA from the Taft scene and it of a sexual nature and they also have the same DNA from another rape in any part of the country, wouldn't you think they would announce it may be a serial rapist? They have 2 serial rapists in Fayettville, NC. One is in custody.
I don't have many details on it. All of it doesn't add up. I'm not sure what to think.
I don't want to go too far outside the scope of the story since we don't have any real indication of sexual assault, that I am aware of. Those in the know, may be privy to this info and not wish to divulge it. Anyway, he's the link for the two different rapist in Fayettville, NC which is about an hour and one-half from Raleigh, NC, I think.
http://www.ncwanted.com/ncwanted_home/story/7220134/
Fayetteville LE got slammed because of their decision to withhold the information of these crimes. They have sinced changed their policy.
http://www.ncwanted.com/ncwanted_home/story/7220134/
Fayetteville LE got slammed because of their decision to withhold the information of these crimes. They have sinced changed their policy.
Just the Fax
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If there is DNA from a rape kit....random rape + murder.
Find this sicko and case solved.
However, if she was in fact raped, the cops would have said so....they wasted no time telling the public in the Stephanie Bennett rape/murder.
Also, if they have a print or DNA match from the attempted break-in, it would also tell the cops it was random....they would tell the public.
Unmatched DNA can be 'touch DNA' from prints almost anywhere in the house.
Such DNA with prints can be from a very long list of invited guests to the home.
Prancy - thanks for your post. I was not aware of LE asking for DNA from passers-by. My thought was that someone who lived close by may be a person of interest for some reason LE knows but has not chosen to reveal. Then if the DNA obtained matches the DNA found at the scene an arrest could be made. I too am feeling like so much doesn't add up in this case, but I have a hunch LE knows much more than has been told to the public. I tend to agree with Just the Fax that she may not have been sexually assualted as no info was provided about that. It would seem that LE would have told the general pulic if a suspected serial rapist was suspected. Then again, Kathy may have been sexually assaulted by someone who knew her, thus making the crime more personal. I am baffled greatly by this case, but still lean toward the theory that this crime was personal.JMO,MOO and all those wonderful acronyms!
Okay. I am starting to feel better now. My guard is still very high for security though.
What you all are saying is right. There is no indication of rape. There is no indication of forced entry, that we know of. Only odd stories from a loved one who was in charge of her care for the evening. Very interesting.
Now if we could just figure why the request for random DNA from neighbors. Hmmm.
What you all are saying is right. There is no indication of rape. There is no indication of forced entry, that we know of. Only odd stories from a loved one who was in charge of her care for the evening. Very interesting.
Now if we could just figure why the request for random DNA from neighbors. Hmmm.
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