NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

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The problem is when people only use their "feelings" to determine guilt or innocence and refuse to look at the facts in the case. They see an interview with MacDonald and he looks like a nice guy to them so that means he must be innocent. Or they read a couple articles and make a determination from that. Snap judgements in one direction or the other, which is very common.

You have to look at the evidence. There is no way to get past the pajama top evidence (which was certainly not withheld from anyone), there is no way to avoid the blood evidence, of which there is a multitude, and it simply does not match what MacDonald said happened.

Watching one interview with Helena Stoeckly is a fraction of the number of interviews she gave and she changes her story a bunch of times.

How realistic is it that 4 drugged out people entered the MacDonald apartment, carrying no weapons, and they somehow found an ice pick, a knife, and a board that matches a slat from underneath one daughter's bed to then attack a family including 2 little girls? Yet no one woke up when they entered and started looking for weapons, not even MacDonald, who said he was asleep on the couch in the living room, which is right near the kitchen and any entrance into the apartment, and he only awoke upon being "attacked/stabbed" while on the couch. JM's blood isn't on the couch...his blood is found in the bathroom at the sink.

His story reminds me of the story told by Darlie Routier, who sits on death row in TX. Strange how all these killers enter homes without any weapons of their own, go hunting for a murder weapon inside the victim's home, leave no fingerprints or DNA, don't steal anything, and then overkill sleeping children and manage to not kill the primary adult who was right there.

I realize this is a very old post, but I just had to quote it because I agree so completely. Yes, MacDonald is a creep a liar and cheater none of which prove he is a murderer. But to me, you can exlude every other fact, the blood evidence proves he did it. It was fortunate, an very unusual, that they all had separate blood types since DNA was but a distant dream when this crime was committed. He did it. I don't have one tiny inkling of a doubt.

Also, I have always found the silmilarities to Darlie's case interesting. In both cases the overkill of two children who could not possibly have posed a threat to an intruder. But two kids could certainly pose a threat if they saw daddy stabbing mommy (the MacDonald case, of course).
Intruders don't bring weapons into the house, but then leave them behind and don't leave one bit of evidence that they were ever in thehouse?

One other thing that has always struck me that I never really see mentioned. So these intruders break in apparently unarmed, because they use weapons already in the house. Yet when they leave, why on earth do they leave said weapons behind? I mean, what crazed intruder couldn't use an extra knife, club or icepick? What if someone is pursuing them - you know like the big strong Green Beret they just attacked - and they need to defend themselves? The only thing the weapon can do is further incriminate them as it could have their fingerprints, fibers from their clothes any number of things and DNA in Darlie's case-that was a couple of years after the OJ trial everyone had heard of DNA. So why not take the weapons with them?

Oh yeah, I know. There were no intruders
 
I also lean toward guilt.. Has anyone watched "False Witness" on Netflix?
 
Yes, I think it was the 2nd. or 3rd. True Crime book I read, the first being Helter Skelter, but this one hooked me. A true classic I have re-read it multiple times since-still have my orignal hardcover copy.

I also met MacDonald in the 70's when he was working in Long Beach where I grew up. In fact, he was Emergency Room director of the hospital I was born in, although that had nothing to do with meeting him. I was dating an Arson Investigator for the LBFD, who worked closely with the LBPD due to the nature of his job. The Cops just loved "Dr Jeff". The guy I dated insisted he could not have committed this crime and I had not heard anything really about the case at that time. MacDonald was a good looking doctor that many women found charming, but I have to say, honestly, even then I got a strong "sleaze" vibe from him. I might think that was just hindsight, but I remember my date being offended that I didn't seem to think too much of his buddy. The LBPD officers raised a lot of money for his defense when he was finally charged.

Of course a few years later I read "Fatal Vision" and there was no going back. I read the rebuttal book too "Fatal Justice" Nice try, no cigar.

The man is guilty as sin, but he will never, ever admit it, of course.
\

bbm -- I just had to say thanks for sharing this, it's a very interesting bit of insight.
 
I read Fatal Vision over 20 years ago, and recently read Errol Morris' book A Wilderness of Error, which posits that the evidence to convict McDonald was insufficient and McDonald's defense was entitled to hear HS testify. I also read all 169 pages of the federal district judge's recent ruling that denied McDonald habeas corpus relief.

I think the jury got it right, and the federal judge got it right when he denied habeas corpus relief. While Morris was right about Randall Dale Adams' innocence, take out HS, whose credibility is problematic, and Morris has nothing to offer.

The habeas corpus petition revolved around three issues:
1. The blond artificial hair found at the crime scene could've been from HS's wig
2. There may have been some unexplained DNA.
3. A deputy USA marshal claimed over 20 years later that he was present when the prosecutor, Blackburn, threatened HS into changing her story.

As for the hair, the FBI maintains the fiber found wasn't used in wigs prior to 1971. While McDonald disputed that, he had no positive proof to offer.

As for the DNA, the evidence didn't clearly cut in McDonald's favor on that, either. To grant habeas relief, you have to show that this evidence was so powerful that a jury would've acquitted..... that wasn't the case here.

Finally, why did this deputy US marshal wait so long to come forward? Also, as someone who works in the legal field, I seriously question whether a deputy would be present during questioning of HS. The court even heard testimony from the marshals' office boss that they didn't sit in on questioning and this deputy definitely didn't sit in on HS.

Barring the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals remanding the case for rehearing, I think McDonald has reached the end of the line and will die in prison. I don't think there are any other new issues he can raise.
 
I read Fatal Vision over 20 years ago, and recently read Errol Morris' book A Wilderness of Error, which posits that the evidence to convict McDonald was insufficient and McDonald's defense was entitled to hear HS testify. I also read all 169 pages of the federal district judge's recent ruling that denied McDonald habeas corpus relief.

I think the jury got it right, and the federal judge got it right when he denied habeas corpus relief. While Morris was right about Randall Dale Adams' innocence, take out HS, whose credibility is problematic, and Morris has nothing to offer.

The habeas corpus petition revolved around three issues:
1. The blond artificial hair found at the crime scene could've been from HS's wig
2. There may have been some unexplained DNA.
3. A deputy USA marshal claimed over 20 years later that he was present when the prosecutor, Blackburn, threatened HS into changing her story.

As for the hair, the FBI maintains the fiber found wasn't used in wigs prior to 1971. While McDonald disputed that, he had no positive proof to offer.

As for the DNA, the evidence didn't clearly cut in McDonald's favor on that, either. To grant habeas relief, you have to show that this evidence was so powerful that a jury would've acquitted..... that wasn't the case here.

Finally, why did this deputy US marshal wait so long to come forward? Also, as someone who works in the legal field, I seriously question whether a deputy would be present during questioning of HS. The court even heard testimony from the marshals' office boss that they didn't sit in on questioning and this deputy definitely didn't sit in on HS.

Barring the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals remanding the case for rehearing, I think McDonald has reached the end of the line and will die in prison. I don't think there are any other new issues he can raise.
 
I read Fatal Vision over 20 years ago, and recently read Errol Morris' book A Wilderness of Error, which posits that the evidence to convict McDonald was insufficient and McDonald's defense was entitled to hear HS testify. I also read all 169 pages of the federal district judge's recent ruling that denied McDonald habeas corpus relief.

I think the jury got it right, and the federal judge got it right when he denied habeas corpus relief. While Morris was right about Randall Dale Adams' innocence, take out HS, whose credibility is problematic, and Morris has nothing to offer.

The habeas corpus petition revolved around three issues:
1. The blond artificial hair found at the crime scene could've been from HS's wig
2. There may have been some unexplained DNA.
3. A deputy USA marshal claimed over 20 years later that he was present when the prosecutor, Blackburn, threatened HS into changing her story.

As for the hair, the FBI maintains the fiber found wasn't used in wigs prior to 1971. While McDonald disputed that, he had no positive proof to offer.

As for the DNA, the evidence didn't clearly cut in McDonald's favor on that, either. To grant habeas relief, you have to show that this evidence was so powerful that a jury would've acquitted..... that wasn't the case here.

Finally, why did this deputy US marshal wait so long to come forward? Also, as someone who works in the legal field, I seriously question whether a deputy would be present during questioning of HS. The court even heard testimony from the marshals' office boss that they didn't sit in on questioning and this deputy definitely didn't sit in on HS.

Barring the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals remanding the case for rehearing, I think McDonald has reached the end of the line and will die in prison. I don't think there are any other new issues he can raise.

From your lips to God's ears.
 
And yet again. He's the gift that keeps on giving. I guess it gives him something to do. Such a narcissist...

"WILMINGTON, N.C. — A month after a federal judge denied a motion for a new trial for Jeffrey MacDonald, the Army surgeon who was convicted of killing his pregnant wife and two daughters at their Fort Bragg home in 1970, MacDonald on Thursday filed yet another motion seeking another trial."Read more at http://www.wral.com/macdonald-conti...vision-killings/13913849/#QjPqxIsazIsSs70O.99
 
I always thought he's guilty as sin but something just crossed my mind....why so many weapons?

(1) Three types of weapons were involved in the attack on Colette

(A) A blunt object with a square contact area
(B) A knife
(C) An ice pick

(1) Two types of weapons were involved in the attack on Kimberly:

(A) A blunt object with flat surfaces.
(B) A knife



(1) Two types of weapons were involved in the attack on Kristen:

(A) A knife
(B) An ice pick like piercing object.

Even if IMO it was a rage attack/overkill....why did he change weapons?

Because he knew they would think more than one weapon= more than one perp
 
How does anyone who doubts his guilt explain how "drugged out hippies" can overcome a Green Beret and kill his entire family while he is OUT? Meaning knocked out.
 
A good reference website for anyone interested in the Jeffrey MacDonald case:

http://www.crimearchives.net/1979_macdonald/

Mac is still appealing, and will never give up fighting this losing battle until the day he draws his last breath. It will be interesting to see how Judge Fox rules on the latest motions filed during the last weeks of September.
 
After probably attacking his wife in a fit of anger, McDonald would have been better off taking his lumps for spousal abuse instead of killing her. Even after he had murdered her, he STILL would have been better off fessing up to what had happened instead of trying to cover it up by proceeding to stab his children.

If he had done any of the above, and actually had real remorse, he would most assuredly be out of prison by now. His downfall both then and now, is his super narcissistic personality disorder which destroyed not only his family, but himself, as well. When will his type ever learn ...
 
I have to be candid. When this thread popped up under "new posts" I got excited for a minute hoping that he had finally died.

I'm disappointed that he hasn't. :(
 
It doesn't look like he's missing any meals in prison.
 
After probably attacking his wife in a fit of anger, McDonald would have been better off taking his lumps for spousal abuse instead of killing her. Even after he had murdered her, he STILL would have been better off fessing up to what had happened instead of trying to cover it up by proceeding to stab his children.

If he had done any of the above, and actually had real remorse, he would most assuredly be out of prison by now. His downfall both then and now, is his super narcissistic personality disorder which destroyed not only his family, but himself, as well. When will his type ever learn ...

Hey, Cracka*Jaxx: I think that if in 1970 he had confessed to the murders, he would have been court-martialed, and probably would have subsequently been released at some point (not sure about sentencing re: court-martials back in 1970). As it turned out, it's probably a good thing that events went the way they did, since thanks largely to Freddy Kassab, MacDonald ended up in a real prison, right where he belongs.

I agree with you about remorse, but imo, Mac will never, ever show remorse for what he did. Being the narcissitic psychopath that he is, he'd rather die in prison than ever admit that his entire story was fabricated, there were never any "intruders," and that he himself committed these horrific crimes.

www.themacdonaldcase.com
 
In 1983, Brian Murtagh told the late Joe McGinniss that MacDonald would never quit and he echoed those sentiments in a 2005 Newsweek article. When asked whether MacDonald's failed attempt at parole would deter his efforts at garnering freedom, Murtagh stated that MacDonald would fight on and added, "I'll quit when he quits."

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
 
Regarding the latest filings entered yesterday, it looks like the defense still can't get its act together. On Oct. 7, Mac's attorney Christine Mumma claimed that his Motion to Alter or Amend the Judgment applied only to Judge Fox's August 8 Order (denying relief under IPA X § 3600),), but it actually applies to his July 24 Order (denying Mac's § 2255 claims).

http://www.crimearchives.net/1979_macdonald/uploads/uploads.html
 
BUNNY: Great stuff. The defense has a long and sorted history in regards to filing messy legal memos/briefs. It's gotten to the point when I am shocked when their memos/briefs DON'T contain mistakes. I would assume that Gordie is going to have to recruit a DNA expert from the IP to construct the appeal to the 4th Circuit Court.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
 
If you sift through Gordie's hyperbole regarding the results of the FBI's microscopic hair report, what you have left is the following...

- The FBI's ASSERTION that the language (e.g., concluding that a pubic hair found under Colette's body had the same microscopic characteristics as MacDonald's pubic hair exemplars) used by Michael Malone in his 1990 and 1991 affidavits was erroneous

- This particular evidentiary exhibit was litigated at the 2012 evidentiary hearing

- The FBI's ASSERTION that the language (e.g., concluding that a broken, bloody head hair found on the multi-colored bedspread had the same microscopic characteristics as Kimmie's head hair exemplars) used by Robert Fram in his 1999 affidavit was erroneous

- This particular evidentiary exhibit was litigated at the 2012 evidentiary hearing and it matched the Mito DNA profile of Kimmie, Kristen, and Colette

- This evidentiary item remains inculpatory because MacDonald claims he never touched the multi-colored bedspread

- The FBI's ASSERTION that the language (e.g., concluding that a broken, bloody limb hair found clutched in Colette's left hand was Caucasian) used by Paul Stombaugh at the Grand Jury hearing and the 1979 trial was erroneous

- This particular evidentiary exhibit was ligitated at the 2012 evidentiary hearing and it matched the DNA profile of Jeffrey MacDonald

- None of the evidentiary items matched the DNA profile of Helena Stoeckley or Greg Mitchell

As the government has pointed out, the Movant has the burden of proof and that burden is "extraordinarily high." IMO, three ASSERTIONS by the FBI that encompass not one, but two inculpatory hair exhibits doesn't come close to meeting that burden.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
 
Great post, Murtagh21! You hit the nail right on the head.

I see that the defense has filed a "Response to Government's Motion for Supplemental Briefing on Movant's Rule 59(e) Motion," in which Widenhouse says he'll be happy to do a supplementatl briefing re: the recent FBI review, but doesn't want the government to have 30 days to respond. Instead, Widenhouse wants 60 days for any supplemental briefing,and wants the government to file its response at the same time.

http://www.crimearchives.net/1979_macdonald/court/2014/2014-10-17_doc372_EDNC_def_response.pdf
 

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