NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

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MacDonald is a cold, calculating murderer. After (possibly mistakenly) hitting his daughter Kim over the head with the 2 x 4 during a violent fight with his wife, he then took a knife and butchered his 2 yr old daughter, who was sleeping peacefully in her bed. He carried his gravely injured 5 yr daughter to her bed and stabbed her multiple times.

All the blood evidence told the tale -- this case was unique in that every victim had a different blood type and different from MacD and the story MacD told did not match the physical evidence whatsoever.

Guilty then, guilty now, hope his only way out of prison is in a body bag.
 
The Magazine was Esquire,

It had an article about the Manson Murders. I recall that drops of Macdonald's blood were found on or near the magazine, and McDonald was able to use this story to conjure up that drug-crazed hippies broke into his house, injuring him and killing his family.

Satch

Yes, it was Esquire, wasn't it?

And yes, that was what he did - got blood on the page where the Manson article was & then somehow came up with that utterly ridiculous "Acid is groovy, kill the pigs" remark. No hippie in his right mind would even have "groovy" in his vocabulary in 1969 or ever for that matter. "Groovy" -- the very idea. He must have gotten that from the "Laugh-In" show he watched with Kim that night. SMH.

Ennyway, he is still :jail: , isn't he?

:)
 
I will say we used the word 'groovy' quite a bit back in 1969...

So did a number of students I knew when we were all in college -- in 1969 -- but I just can't see a bunch of grungers using that word. The folks that MacD accused of being in his house and saying, "Acid is groovy..." just didn't jibe in my mind -- they were pretty far out there, IMO. That's what I meant in my earlier post -- Helena Stoeckley and her bunch seemed a bit hard core, to me.
 
Oh I understand...but...I think HS would say something like that, considering how she was dressed, and the times. As far as the other guys, you're prob right.
Especially if she were high.
 
I was just reading his article in the new People magazine, where they're testing 'new' DNA.
And , I got to thinking..what if he is innocent?

But then, why and who are these people that did this horrific crime? Why did they target him and his fam. And so viciously attack his whole family , but not him?
 
Long time lurker - first time poster on this case. Maybe I missed it, but what in the world would be his motive? I'm not supporting him, I'm just confused.
I know HS was a druggie, but how in the world did she describe trying to "ride" the rocking horse & it was broken.
 
Here's food for thought,

And why after several years of going back and forth I believe Jeff McDonald is guilty. Let's assume that that the minority of those it seems who belive in his innocence, what I can't understand is the following:

1.) Why was the living room so neat? This was a fight between a medically trained Green Barret and four drug-crazed hippies. Yet all we really have is an overturned coffee table, with the magazines, newspapers, and magazines neatly stacked. I believe there was a flowerpot that was tipped over. And Jeff's slippers are found under the coffee table with part of the slipper stuck under the table.

2.) How were Jeff and the intruders able to fight in such a small space and in the dark? There's only about four feet of space between the coffee table and the couch. How could five people fight in such a small area, where nothing is disturbed in the living room during the struggle?

3.) Where and when did Helena Stockley or whoever the girl with the boots and the floppy hate light the candle that she was carrying?
It was raining outside at the time. The wick would have been wet from the rain. Helena would have had to have found a candle in the Macdonald's house to light it, or brought her own candle. Even if she brought her own, the wick would be wet. How did she light the candle? Did McDonald mistaken the candle for a flashlight?

4.) How did four people plan all this carnage in the living room and bedrooms with no knowledge of the house or where the Macdonalds' kept things?
It was dark in that house? How could they see what they were doing? Where did the get the other weapons, the club, knife, and ice pick? Fatal Justice said that Helena told friends that she kept an icepick in her purse. Too coincidentle for me that the McDonald's had an icepick and the Mildred Kassab had used it when she would babysit the girls to thaw out popsicles for them. Macdonald always said he did not have an icepick?

5.) How come the intruders never say anything or give a motive to hurt Jeff or the family when they were there? How did they know that Jeff would be sleeping on the couch? Did they just calmly walk into the house? Who was attacked first? Jeff says that when he awoke that there were four people standing over him with a club, knife, and ice pick and hitting him with it. Meanwhile, he says that he heard Kim screaming "Daddy! Daddy! Daddy" and Colette screaming "Jeff, why are they doing this to me?" To whom were they talking? Were there two other people in the bedroom for a total of six people in the apartment that night?

6.) We know that the family was killed. We know that Jeff's injuries were minor, very minor compared to the rest of the family? Why leave the one person who could identify you kept alive? Fatal Justice said the phone rang during the murders, and that frightened off the assailants. But that seems to be a stretch. Even so, why weren't any of the assaients injured at all? That really bothered me. Jim Blackburn, the prosecutor said that if Macdonald's story were true, at least one of those people would be dead. Macdonald would have beating the living **** out of them. He was a Green Barret. medically trained as a doctor and solider to respond quickly to combat and emergency situations. Yet, an Afghan and his pajama top pulled over his head stopped him from trying to save his family?

Now on the Defense side of things:

1.) Yes, I believe the crime scene was not preserved properly and I always wanted to know what Macdonald's pajama bottoms who were thrown away could have presented?
2.) The unidentified fingerprints ruined in the photo lab. To whom did they belong?
3.) The black wool fibers found on Collette's mouth and shoulder and the unsourced candle wax drippings. The cigarette ashes in one of the rooms although neither Collette nor Jeff smoked?
4.) The biggest mystery is Jimmy Frier- He claimed that he called the Macdonald house the night of the murders and that "a lady answered the phone." Mr. Frier was looking for his psychiatrist, Dr. Richard Macdonald, who was another person on the base. The operator mistakenly put it through to Jeff Macdonad's house. For decades, I have always relished getting records of that phone conversation! Frier said he heard what sounded like a "Party going on." He was being treated for Alcoholism at Womack Hospital.

Interesting things from the defense for sure, but not enough there to raise reasonable doubt as to Macdonad's guilt. Just my view.

Satch
 
Jeff Macdonald gave a lot of contradictory and inconsistent statements over time, which did not match the physical evidence of the crime scene. I can see a distortion of memory where maybe five things may conflict. But I got this from a website of someone who had studied the Macdonald Case for years. Look at what he says, and what the evidence shows:

http://www.themacdonaldcase.com/html/mmt.html

Satch
 
I was just reading his article in the new People magazine, where they're testing 'new' DNA.
And , I got to thinking..what if he is innocent?

But then, why and who are these people that did this horrific crime? Why did they target him and his fam. And so viciously attack his whole family , but not him?

bbm

Exactly. That, to me, indicates that he was lying from the get-go.

If you were going into an officer's house to steal drugs (or whatever) and you saw his sleeping wife on the way into the house from the back door & then you saw the two little girls asleep, and then you come into the living room & see this tall, fit soldier, what would you do? You'd either GTH out of the house or go after the one who would be the most threat to you & your pals -- overkill everywhere else & you barely bruise and very slightly cut this guy's chest? Nah, no way.
 
Here's food for thought,

And why after several years of going back and forth I believe Jeff McDonald is guilty. Let's assume that that the minority of those it seems who belive in his innocence, what I can't understand is the following:

1.) Why was the living room so neat? This was a fight between a medically trained Green Barret and four drug-crazed hippies. Yet all we really have is an overturned coffee table, with the magazines, newspapers, and magazines neatly stacked. I believe there was a flowerpot that was tipped over. And Jeff's slippers are found under the coffee table with part of the slipper stuck under the table.

2.) How were Jeff and the intruders able to fight in such a small space and in the dark? There's only about four feet of space between the coffee table and the couch. How could five people fight in such a small area, where nothing is disturbed in the living room during the struggle?


3.) Where and when did Helena Stockley or whoever the girl with the boots and the floppy hate light the candle that she was carrying?
It was raining outside at the time. The wick would have been wet from the rain. Helena would have had to have found a candle in the Macdonald's house to light it, or brought her own candle. Even if she brought her own, the wick would be wet. How did she light the candle? Did McDonald mistaken the candle for a flashlight?

4.) How did four people plan all this carnage in the living room and bedrooms with no knowledge of the house or where the Macdonalds' kept things?
It was dark in that house? How could they see what they were doing? Where did the get the other weapons, the club, knife, and ice pick? Fatal Justice said that Helena told friends that she kept an icepick in her purse. Too coincidentle for me that the McDonald's had an icepick and the Mildred Kassab had used it when she would babysit the girls to thaw out popsicles for them. Macdonald always said he did not have an icepick?

5.) How come the intruders never say anything or give a motive to hurt Jeff or the family when they were there? How did they know that Jeff would be sleeping on the couch? Did they just calmly walk into the house? Who was attacked first? Jeff says that when he awoke that there were four people standing over him with a club, knife, and ice pick and hitting him with it. Meanwhile, he says that he heard Kim screaming "Daddy! Daddy! Daddy" and Colette screaming "Jeff, why are they doing this to me?" To whom were they talking? Were there two other people in the bedroom for a total of six people in the apartment that night?

6.) We know that the family was killed. We know that Jeff's injuries were minor, very minor compared to the rest of the family? Why leave the one person who could identify you kept alive? Fatal Justice said the phone rang during the murders, and that frightened off the assailants. But that seems to be a stretch. Even so, why weren't any of the assaients injured at all? That really bothered me. Jim Blackburn, the prosecutor said that if Macdonald's story were true, at least one of those people would be dead. Macdonald would have beating the living **** out of them. He was a Green Barret. medically trained as a doctor and solider to respond quickly to combat and emergency situations. Yet, an Afghan and his pajama top pulled over his head stopped him from trying to save his family?

Now on the Defense side of things:

1.) Yes, I believe the crime scene was not preserved properly and I always wanted to know what Macdonald's pajama bottoms who were thrown away could have presented?
2.) The unidentified fingerprints ruined in the photo lab. To whom did they belong?
3.) The black wool fibers found on Collette's mouth and shoulder and the unsourced candle wax drippings. The cigarette ashes in one of the rooms although neither Collette nor Jeff smoked?
4.) The biggest mystery is Jimmy Frier- He claimed that he called the Macdonald house the night of the murders and that "a lady answered the phone." Mr. Frier was looking for his psychiatrist, Dr. Richard Macdonald, who was another person on the base. The operator mistakenly put it through to Jeff Macdonad's house. For decades, I have always relished getting records of that phone conversation! Frier said he heard what sounded like a "Party going on." He was being treated for Alcoholism at Womack Hospital.

Interesting things from the defense for sure, but not enough there to raise reasonable doubt as to Macdonad's guilt. Just my view.

Satch



Christina Masewicz's site is The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com , and Bob Stevenson, Colette's brother, answers questions, and one was about Freddie Kassab taking measurements and things and ....

" the CID did a reenactment of the crime scene the way MacDonald described it occurred. The reenactment was filmed and made into a video which the CID continues to use to teach new agents. They used fellow CID agents to act as the intruders and one on the sofa as MacDonald. It was totally impossible for things to have occurred as MacDonald said they did.".
 
Here's food for thought,

And why after several years of going back and forth I believe Jeff McDonald is guilty. Let's assume that that the minority of those it seems who belive in his innocence, what I can't understand is the following:

1.) Why was the living room so neat? This was a fight between a medically trained Green Barret and four drug-crazed hippies. Yet all we really have is an overturned coffee table, with the magazines, newspapers, and magazines neatly stacked. I believe there was a flowerpot that was tipped over. And Jeff's slippers are found under the coffee table with part of the slipper stuck under the table.

2.) How were Jeff and the intruders able to fight in such a small space and in the dark? There's only about four feet of space between the coffee table and the couch. How could five people fight in such a small area, where nothing is disturbed in the living room during the struggle?

3.) Where and when did Helena Stockley or whoever the girl with the boots and the floppy hate light the candle that she was carrying?
It was raining outside at the time. The wick would have been wet from the rain. Helena would have had to have found a candle in the Macdonald's house to light it, or brought her own candle. Even if she brought her own, the wick would be wet. How did she light the candle? Did McDonald mistaken the candle for a flashlight?

4.) How did four people plan all this carnage in the living room and bedrooms with no knowledge of the house or where the Macdonalds' kept things?
It was dark in that house? How could they see what they were doing? Where did the get the other weapons, the club, knife, and ice pick? Fatal Justice said that Helena told friends that she kept an icepick in her purse. Too coincidentle for me that the McDonald's had an icepick and the Mildred Kassab had used it when she would babysit the girls to thaw out popsicles for them. Macdonald always said he did not have an icepick?

5.) How come the intruders never say anything or give a motive to hurt Jeff or the family when they were there? How did they know that Jeff would be sleeping on the couch? Did they just calmly walk into the house? Who was attacked first? Jeff says that when he awoke that there were four people standing over him with a club, knife, and ice pick and hitting him with it. Meanwhile, he says that he heard Kim screaming "Daddy! Daddy! Daddy" and Colette screaming "Jeff, why are they doing this to me?" To whom were they talking? Were there two other people in the bedroom for a total of six people in the apartment that night?


Satch

Snipped for space. This post just made me unstraddle the fence. This paints a picture that you can't un see. Thank you satch!
 
He's on the cover of some magazine this week, I noticed. I'm surprised he still gets any attention at all. I feel certain of his guilt; I'm surprised anyone feels differently. But Errol Morris does, for one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know. Unbelievable. Just like the Menendez brothers .
 
bbm

Exactly. That, to me, indicates that he was lying from the get-go.

If you were going into an officer's house to steal drugs (or whatever) and you saw his sleeping wife on the way into the house from the back door & then you saw the two little girls asleep, and then you come into the living room & see this tall, fit soldier, what would you do? You'd either GTH out of the house or go after the one who would be the most threat to you & your pals -- overkill everywhere else & you barely bruise and very slightly cut this guy's chest? Nah, no way.

Exactly. And a fit, buff soldier is still going to be alive and well, after his wife and babies are slaughtered? Every soldier I know would fight to the DEATH before that happened to their family. I'd fight to the death before anyone could kill my babies. His story makes no sense.
 
Last night's "People Investigates" (they should stick to "investigating" Paris Hilton's sex life) was a disgrace--all of the people they interviewed were pro-Macdonald and NONE of the evidence proving Mac's guilt was presented. ID should be ashamed of itself!

ITA. I am so sick of this baby killer finding new "audiences" for his lies. People and ID should be ashamed of themselves.
 
I was just reading his article in the new People magazine, where they're testing 'new' DNA.
And , I got to thinking..what if he is innocent?

But then, why and who are these people that did this horrific crime? Why did they target him and his fam. And so viciously attack his whole family , but not him?

He is not innocent. The forensic evidence is overwhelming, never mine the circumstantial. Why break into a home and kill the babies, a young woman and leave the big strong Green Beret alive? And, they were not just killed they were butchered. But Jeffie gets a cut and hit on the head?

The idea of his innocence is beyond absurd.
 
"Fatal Vision" was the first true crime book I read and it hooked me on the genre for life. I picked it up because I had met Jeffie once, while he was working in Long Beach, CA, my hometown, and I was dating an arson investigator with the LBFD. The guy I was dating was convinced of his innocence because the PD and FD loved him. People forget that Joel McGinnis also thought he was innocent when he started writing the book.

The evidence is overwhelming and I cannot believe that this is still being litigated. I sometimes wonder if Jeffie is such a pathological liar that he has somehow convinced himself his little fairy tale is true. I read the book that was supposed to rebut the book, I think it was Fatal Justice. Nonsense, just like his story.
 
"Fatal Vision" was the first true crime book I read and it hooked me on the genre for life. I picked it up because I had met Jeffie once, while he was working in Long Beach, CA, my hometown, and I was dating an arson investigator with the LBFD. The guy I was dating was convinced of his innocence because the PD and FD loved him. People forget that Joel McGinnis also thought he was innocent when he started writing the book.

The evidence is overwhelming and I cannot believe that this is still being litigated. I sometimes wonder if Jeffie is such a pathological liar that he has somehow convinced himself his little fairy tale is true. I read the book that was supposed to rebut the book, I think it was Fatal Justice. Nonsense, just like his story.

bbm

I have often thought the same thing -- he has had over 45 years to devise/revise & tell his story to
LE & hundreds of people and to refine his smoo-o-o-ooth lies, smiles, intelligence and charm (which, I am sure, he feels has in abundance -- typical narcissist/sociopath). And I think his lies of what happened are so ingrained in his persona, that he really sees it in his mind. He might even be able to fool a lie detector by now.

He did it; he killed his family. Period.
 

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