NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

[borndem]

A MacDonald movie tonight, 8:00pmEDT on FX channel -- in 5 installments (I'm pretty sure it's 5).
Tune in NOW if interested.
"A Wilderness of Error" -- Errol Morris -- but it won't win me over to the "JMacD didn't do it" camp, if that's what it is trying to do.

 

[meanmaryjean]

I only watched a couple hours last night- but to me the single most powerful moments were the father-in-law's. All he ever wanted was justice for his daughter. And he, with dogged determination- FOLLOWED THE EVIDENCE to its logical conclusion. And when he finally got information that led him in the opposite direction of his first conclusions, he was willing to EXAMINE THE EVIDENCE, and change his mind.

 

[Rocco]

I watched all 3 segments. Errol Morris states he thinks MacDonald is innocent however, I didn't see anything presented that would lead anyone to that conclusion. Must be coming up in the next 2 segments. Helena Stokely sure made a mess with this case.

 

[Rocco]

I only watched a couple hours last night- but to me the single most powerful moments were the father-in-law's. All he ever wanted was justice for his daughter. And he, with dogged determination- FOLLOWED THE EVIDENCE to its logical conclusion. And when he finally got information that led him in the opposite direction of his first conclusions, he was willing to EXAMINE THE EVIDENCE, and change his mind.

I thought the blood evidence was the most compelling. The fact that they all had different blood types really told the story of what happened and that what he said happened, was not true.

 

[borndem]

I watched all 3 segments. Errol Morris states he thinks MacDonald is innocent however, I didn't see anything presented that would lead anyone to that conclusion. Must be coming up in the next 2 segments. Helena Stokely sure made a mess with this case.

Totally agree with all you said.
I do have to wonder if the Stoeckley angle was a bit gratuitous -- she appears in a lot of scenes, IMO -- and it seems a bit fishy to me -- unless she liked the attention and did/said things that were exaggerated or just not true. I just don't trust her . JMO.

 

[meanmaryjean]

Totally agree with all you said.
I do have to wonder if the Stoeckley angle was a bit gratuitous -- she appears in a lot of scenes, IMO -- and it seems a bit fishy to me -- unless she liked the attention and did/said things that were exaggerated or just not true. I just don't trust her . JMO.

If you look up 'red herring' in the dictionary you'll find a picture of Helena Stokely.

 

[borndem]

I thought the blood evidence was the most compelling. The fact that they all had different blood types really told the story of what happened and that what he said happened, was not true.

Yep, MacDonald could not defend or counter any of that blood evidence -- or any of it, AAMOF.
His arrogance, a common trait of sociopaths, got the best of him, especially when he was on the witness stand... He sank his own ship. He's just where he should be -- for the rest of his life. Full stop.

 

[borndem]

If you look up 'red herring' in the dictionary you'll find a picture of Helena Stokely.

Loving that one, @meanmaryjean!! Thanks!

 

[Paul B.]

Felon MacDonald deserves to be in prison. Jozsef Barsi on the other hand most likely was the same as Eddie Leonski in that the effects of an existing brain condition/damage were aggravated by alcohol. Had Jozsef not taken the coward's way out, i doubt he would have been deemed competent to stand trial for the murder of Maria and Judith.

 

[mickey2942]

I watched the first part of the series last night, and it really was a cluster when it comes out that no less than 28 people were in that tiny house within 48 hours of the murder (I think that is what someone said). Paramedics, investigators, technicians, photographer, MP's, etc...

It is actually surprising that there wasn't more evidence collected from all of these people, at the scene.

But so far, I haven't seen anything new, or striking that changes my mind. If anything, it is even more clear that Dr. Jeffrey McDonald is where he belongs.

 

[mrsselig]

Watching this series right now. . . .I'm on episode 3. . . . wow. So far, everything I've seen shows that the correct verdict was reached. I'll update when I finish the series, FWIW.

 

[mickey2942]

Watching this series right now. . . .I'm on episode 3. . . . wow. So far, everything I've seen shows that the correct verdict was reached. I'll update when I finish the series, FWIW.

I read that the director really feels like the trial was messed up.

The one sticking issue for me, is that this was 1970, in North Carolina. There are almost no "cross cultural" crimes, meaning crimes committed by an integrated team. Even now. Dr. McDonald stated it was "a white woman with blonde hair, a black man, and another white man.".

I am not buying that a crime like that was committed by a group that consisted of a black man and a white man. Especially back in 1970, in North Carolina. I couldn't even find any literature on this, because there isn't any. People just are not that integrated, even now.

 

[Betty P]

Watching this series right now. . . .I'm on episode 3. . . . wow. So far, everything I've seen shows that the correct verdict was reached. I'll update when I finish the series, FWIW.

What channel?

 

[mickey2942]

What channel?

It is on Hulu, and FX.

 

[Rocco]

I watched the last 2 episodes last night. What really rules out Helena Stokely, IMO, is the fact that her story is totally different than MacDonald's. In the interview with her that they aired, she claimed 2 of her accomplices were in the house arguing with Jeff about giving them some drugs. When he refused, they shoved him back down on the couch and started assaulting him. His story was that he woke up on the couch, they were standing there, and began assaulting him. He said nothing about an argument over drugs before the assault and being shoved back down.

I do find it troubling that the prosecutor, Jim Blackburn, was years later found guilty of fraud, forgery, and embezzlement charges. If that's in his character, then can we be sure MacDonald got a fair trial and all the evidence was presented? Were all the rulings made by the judge fair and impartial?

I'm convinced that he's the murderer although I'm not convinced he got a fair trial.

 

[Betty P]

I only watched a couple hours last night- but to me the single most powerful moments were the father-in-law's. All he ever wanted was justice for his daughter. And he, with dogged determination- FOLLOWED THE EVIDENCE to its logical conclusion. And when he finally got information that led him in the opposite direction of his first conclusions, he was willing to EXAMINE THE EVIDENCE, and change his mind.

Yes, Freddie Kassab did an amazing job of analyzing the evidence and pursuing charges.

 

[Betty P]

I watched the series last night. It was produced and researched very well, but my opinion didn't change.

Questions I still have about MacDonald's intruders story:

• Very unlikely a woman wearing a hat, wig, dress, stockings and go-go boots would be loitering, sloshing through rain and mud around town on a cold February night
  
• Aside from one man, no one has been able to identify any of the other men who attacked the family. As regular troublemakers, LE likely had encountered them before.
  
• How did MacDonald know which drugs the killers were high on?
• It was alleged these people were heroin users, supposedly addicts returning from Vietnam. MacDonald also said they were high on downers and LSD. It would be near impossible for people high on that combination to commit such violent murders. JMO

 

[chlban]

I recorded this and just finished watching. Nothing in this changed my mind at all. It was just a reminder of why he was convicted. Even Error Morris said he thinks MacDonald is innocent, but admits he isn't sure. 12 jurors and everyone I know that has actually researched this case is quite sure he did it.

 

[chlban]

And none of his blood was found in the living room despite supposedly being stabbed there multiple times.

The story he came up with is also ridiculous.

And Valentine's day cards were stood up on a sideboard in the dining area, adjacent to the living room, were still standing. Yet, a supposed struggle knocked over the coffee table nearby.

 

[MrsWatson]

Well, I won't get those hours of my life back.

Well done, but ole Dr Jeff is right where he belongs, imo.