NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

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A big BRAVO to you, Lindsay Beyerstein!! Quite good and thorough without writing another 900-word epic.

Now I know without a doubt that I do not need to read the, IMO, tripe that Morris wrote! To blindly ignore facts and to make broad statements & assumptions is very weak, especially for non-fiction writing. It makes one wonder why, and if he has a stake in the book other than counter sales of it.

Note: JMHO


And a big thanks to hollyjokers for giving us the link!

Morris really is a fine documentarian; but he had very bad experiences with LE in Texas (on the Randall Adams case; Adams was eventually acquitted but it took years) and that may have colored Morris' view of the authorities and the extremes LE will go to to cover its collective mistakes.
 
Morris really is a fine documentarian; but he had very bad experiences with LE in Texas (on the Randall Adams case; Adams was eventually acquitted but it took years) and that may have colored Morris' view of the authorities and the extremes LE will go to to cover its collective mistakes.

I dont know if I can let that pass, fwiw, Nova. This case is what it is. No one railroaded MacDonald except for himself. At least imo. Because everyone wanted it not to be him. People loved him and respected him and were overwhelmed by everything about him.

But just about everyone reached the same conclusion after listening to his version of the truth and then to what the evidence showed.

Throw everything out but the blood typing and how Kristy was stabbed along her pulmonary vein. You would still get a conviction. JMVHO.

In any case, this guy was hired or invited to see if he could get MacDonald a new trial-win for MacDonald if it worked and win for Morris because he gets publicity either way.

His mistake was making it clear, again imo, that he isnt sure that MacDonald is innocent. The way he made that clear to me is by not dealing with all of the evidence.
 
The child actress who played Kimmy Macdonald was murdered by her father several yrs. after the airing of the made-for-TV movie about this case.
 
The child actress who played Kimmy Macdonald was murdered by her father several yrs. after the airing of the made-for-TV movie about this case.

I hadn't heard that. What a terrible coincidence.

Judith Barsi played Kimmy when she was three. Here is the Wikepedia which includes the information on the murder:

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Barsi"]Judith Barsi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Thank You !
I lived in Berkeley California in the 60's and 70's. I was not only surrounded by Hippies, I was one myself. Believe me, savagery and murder were the last things on our minds. lol

Exactly and thank you for standing up for hippies! It was all about love, not hate!
 
I dont know if I can let that pass, fwiw, Nova. This case is what it is. No one railroaded MacDonald except for himself. At least imo. Because everyone wanted it not to be him. People loved him and respected him and were overwhelmed by everything about him.

But just about everyone reached the same conclusion after listening to his version of the truth and then to what the evidence showed.

Throw everything out but the blood typing and how Kristy was stabbed along her pulmonary vein. You would still get a conviction. JMVHO.

In any case, this guy was hired or invited to see if he could get MacDonald a new trial-win for MacDonald if it worked and win for Morris because he gets publicity either way.

His mistake was making it clear, again imo, that he isnt sure that MacDonald is innocent. The way he made that clear to me is by not dealing with all of the evidence.

(Emphasis added.) Not "everyone", but "almost everyone" most certainly including me. Haven't I made that clear?

But the question of Morris' motive came up. Here's an excerpt from Wiki about his first big success in 1988:

The Thin Blue Line won Best Documentary honors from the New York Film Critics Circle, the Kansas City Film Critics Circle, the National Board of Review, and the National Society of Film Critics. Morris himself won an International Documentary Association Award, an Edgar Award, and a MacArthur Fellowship Genius Grant (1989). The film was marketed as "nonfiction" rather than as a documentary which disqualified it from being considered in that category for an Academy Award....

Variety credits the film in a 2008 retrospective of documentaries as “the most political work of cinema in the last 20 years.”

The film in question proved the innocence of Texas death row inmate, Randall Adams, and won his acquittal several years before the Innocence Project was started. (In fact, I suspect the film helped to inspire the organization.)

In 2003, Morris won the Oscar for Best Documentary for The Fog of War on Robert S. McNamera and the Viet Nam War. Morris is arguably the most successful documentary maker in the U.S. save for Michael Moore.

So he isn't some Johnny-come-lately that has to latch on to the McDonald case to get work. THAT was my point.

But he may indeed have a bias against LE of all stripes, considering both of his most famous documentaries are about government cover-ups that lasted decades. That TOO was my point.

Bottom line: even great artists can be dead-wrong. But that doesn't make them shysters. No, Morris probably wouldn't make an anti-McDonald film because that territory has been well covered by McGinnis. But neither do I believe Morris would make a pro-McDonald film just to make a buck. Documentaries don't usually pay that well.
 
Judith Barsi played Kimmy when she was three. Here is the Wikepedia which includes the information on the murder:

Judith Barsi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What a sad story! Before domestic violence was a "real issue." oh you're going to file for divorce from the man who beats & chokes you? Well then, you should be safe. (bitter laugh)

I just watched Fatal Vision not long ago, but I couldn't tell you what Judith looked like. But there was a time in my life that "Yep! Yep! Yep!" came very close to driving me towards madness; my kids loved that show. (although Sara was the really annoying one)
 
After many years of considering the MacDonald case, an insight recently occurred to me that I don’t recall ever having been brought up before. In retrospect, it seems so obvious that I have to believe that somebody had previously thought of it. I’m mystified why it took me so long to realize it.

For any who actually believe that there is even a chance that MacDonald is innocent, then ask yourselves this: When the MPs arrived at the MacDonald house that fateful morning, why was the house dark? Why weren’t lights on? Without my spelling it out, compare this fact with MacDonald’s version of events and see if it sheds any light for you as to yet another reason why the good doctor’s version of events is a crock.
 
I haven't followed this case much, except for what I've seen on You tube, and the occasional recreation years ago. Was there DNA back then (don't think so). But is there anyway to go back and test items to look for foreign DNA? I look at the Arias case and see where Jodi and Travis's blood is clearly mixed (a no brainer to me -- besides she admitted it).

I don't know if I agree on giving him a new trial because I don't know what the circumstances are (new evidence?).

Off to do some reading - thanks guys!

Mel
 
I just wanted to leave a brief follow-up note to point out to any who might have missed it my post (#407) of two notes ago which deals with a substantive matter of what I consider to be of great importance regarding the MacDonald case and is possibly new. (You tell me.) Not long after I posted it, another poster made a note (apparently unrelated to my own) which basically says she doesn’t know much about the case and needs to read more about it. Therefore, I was afraid that any looking at the thread and seeing that a new reply has been made would see her reply and not realize that I had made one as well today just before hers. To any who have followed this case closely, I believe it will be of great interest.

Thank you.
 
Interesting and lengthy Observer/Guardian piece:

The Fort Bragg murders: is Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?
In 1970, Colette MacDonald and her two daughters were stabbed to death in a savage frenzy, setting in motion America's longest-running murder trial. After decades of legal wrangles, her husband, a military doctor, remains in jail for the crime. We spoke to Errol Morris, an Oscar-winning film-maker who has written a book about the case which reaches some startling conclusions…
 
I re-read Fatal Vision this weekend as I had come across it at a thrift store. I have always felt MacMurderer guilty, but what again clinched it for me was his "lack" of reaction to Helena Stockley when she testified at his trial.

Here is a woman whom he claims was in his home with a gang of hippies (all of whom were cleared by the CID earlier - one was even incarcerated when she claims they were in MacMurderer's home BTW) and he shows no reaction to her whatsoever. His defense team had also promised her monetary gain (from a future movie to be made about the case) and help starting a new life if she were to testify to their favor. MacMurderer had no problem with this I guess?

I have a 3 1/2 year old daughter. If I was sitting across a courtroom from someone I knew to be responsible for her violent death in any way, I would crawl over the tables and try to strangle her with my bare hands. Or I would become physically ill even having to sit in the same room as her - as I am sure any living, breathing parent who loved their child would. I would not be able to sit calmly across from her and act bored.

I don't think MacMurderer responded to her because he knows she had absolutely nothing to do with his family's murder.
 
I re-read Fatal Vision this weekend as I had come across it at a thrift store. I have always felt MacMurderer guilty, but what again clinched it for me was his "lack" of reaction to Helena Stockley when she testified at his trial.

Here is a woman whom he claims was in his home with a gang of hippies (all of whom were cleared by the CID earlier - one was even incarcerated when she claims they were in MacMurderer's home BTW) and he shows no reaction to her whatsoever. His defense team had also promised her monetary gain (from a future movie to be made about the case) and help starting a new life if she were to testify to their favor. MacMurderer had no problem with this I guess?

I have a 3 1/2 year old daughter. If I was sitting across a courtroom from someone I knew to be responsible for her violent death in any way, I would crawl over the tables and try to strangle her with my bare hands. Or I would become physically ill even having to sit in the same room as her - as I am sure any living, breathing parent who loved their child would. I would not be able to sit calmly across from her and act bored.

I don't think MacMurderer responded to her because he knows she had absolutely nothing to do with his family's murder.

Yes, that sums it up nicely.
 
And the suitcase that was photographed on the floor in the master bedroom (near MacDonald's clothes btw)? It had no blood on it, but was surrounded by blood. Suggesting it was placed on the floor after the murders. I guess the knife wielding hippies were planning to flee and take some of MacDonald's clothes with them?

I have scanned the page in Fatal Vision which describes this photograph, but am unsure if the rules allow me to post it here.
 
So when will the news be released on if there is going to be another trial?
 
Or because he never id'd Helena Stockley as the woman in the floppy hat.

No but HE and his attorneys sure thought she was there and responsible - why else would they ask her to testify? The prosecution didn't drag her into it because they knew she was unreliable and had recanted her story too many times.
 
]No but HE and his attorneys sure thought she was there and responsible [/B]- why else would they ask her to testify? The prosecution didn't drag her into it because they knew she was unreliable and had recanted her story too many times.


IDK, respectfully. I think that they thought she provided reasonable doubt. jmvho.
 

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