GUILTY NC - PFC Kelli Bordeaux, 23, Fayetteville, 14 April 2012 - #9

[VOH910]

Why would you bring that up on casual conversation the next day? Even if it did happen?
I guess VOH could enlighten us with how that topic came about but there wasnt anything to be worried about Sat.

Nick said himself he thought Kelli just didnt want him to know where she lived and he seemed to be implying he wasnt worried. Why would he then talk about kelli being spooked then the next day?

The fact he had the conversation about it at all is unsettling for me. Laying groundwork??

I inquired about if Kelli was going to be there and he did not know but thought how she acted was weird.

 

[CatABD]

My apologizes for the multiple posts, I was trying to respond to someone and I selected the “quote” button. Apparently, I am not very savvy at posting!
:banghead:

 

[CatABD]

I figured it out!
Sorry for any inconvenience my multiply posting caused.
:blushing:

 

[andalso]

I inquired about if Kelli was going to be there and he did not know but thought how she acted was weird.

If he in fact did do something to Kelli, IMO he would have prepared his story prior to returning to FB. If he is the perp...he couldn't exactly say "no, she won't be here today, I did 'x,y,z' to her...".
I am guessing, VOH, that his answer seemed believable to you?
I would say, IMO, that on the TV interviews he tells his side of the story in a very believable way. I can't tell if he IS telling the truth or if he is just a very believable liar.

 

[CatABD]

Some of the worst serial killer cases are the ones who target prostitutes. :waitasec: Would legalization help those women? Because many are hooked on drugs and that would have to be legalized too, etc. I'm not sure the solution is that simple. For some prostitutes, legalization would probably make their job safer though. I'm not sure it would save other random girls though.

They're driven by something more than just a need for sex. It's beyond that as they are twisted in their brains and angry and have no respect of life when it comes to female life. One guy said he went around killing woman because he'd been rejected by the woman he loved. Wow. He was getting back at women in general for the hurt one woman caused him.

Then there's the BTK killer who recounted all of his 'kills' without any remorse in court. He just liked to kill women - no particular reason other than it turned him on to do so but he didn't rape his victims. Sick.

I've been meaning to check to see if any of these killers childhood circumstances have been studied. I know of one serial killer, whose name escapes me at the moment, dad has been outspoken and there's been T.V. interviews with him and his serial killer son. The one who kept a trunk/box thingy in his closet. There's one serial killer who has recounted close calls of his mother finding out that he had just killed somebody. She drove the car with a body in the trunk to the store before he had dumped the body. This may be a different killer. No sixth sense? Ever? Weird.

In respect to serial killers much research on personality is abundant in the research literature. The general consensus is that some people have a predisposition to violence as well as an interaction between the environment, personality traits, and biological factors. There are various sociological, psychological, and biological theories that extend a partial understanding of serial murders.

One article I read claims that researchers look to the crime scene itself to discover the potential for two distinct types of serial killers; organized or disorganized (Knight, 2006). Personality types associated with serial killers are described as psychopathic personality types; narcissistic, paranoid or antisocial, bipolar mood disorder and are generally considered rare (Geberth, 1996; Hare, 1993; Hikey 1997; Miller, 2000; Money, 1990; Rtzuk, 1994; Schechter, 1990; Schlesinger, 1998; as cited in Knight, 2006).

Knight (2006) addresses the lack of appropriate object-relations (primary figures being the object, e.g., mother, father) and the subsequent development of narcissism in serial killers. To cut to the chase, Knight mentions in his article that when the parent does not give appropriate feedback such as mirroring and idealization a subsequent stunting occurs and the infant’s emerging needs are severally affected, which in turn affects the child’s sense of self and reality. Consequently, the child self- structure may become damaged resulting in a ‘developmental arrest’. This developmental arrest and we are discussing serial killers, produces pathological narcissism.

Holmes and Holmes (1998; as cited in Knight 2006) identifies two different types of serial killers; lust and thrill, both of which are classified as the organized type (this types makes detailed plans to kill, this includes stalking and abducting). An excerpt follows that describes one of these types of serial killers and the implications of a lack of appropriate object-relations and the emergence of a thrill serial killer:
These children would have experienced a profound sense of rejection and low self-esteem. The impact of this kind of dysfunctional object relation would result in the needs for grandiosity being repressed only to unconsciously surface as mirror-hungry behavior. The need for mirroring and attention may explain why thrill serial killers require that their victims remain fully awake and aware during torture as this awareness ensures a response, and this response offers – in fantasy and in reality – a sense of visibility. (Knight, 2006, p. 1197).

I don’t know if any of you can access this article, if you can, it is a good article to read that addresses the characteristics of some serial killers. If you can’t find this article, you could go to Google scholar and find one similar. There are so many out there, I grabbed this one and took a quick look at it. I am not an expert on serial killers, so please take this information with a grain of salt!

Reference

Knight, Z. G. (2006). SOME THOUGHTS ON THE PSYCHOLOGICAL ROOTS OF THE BEHAVIOR OF SERIAL KILLERS AS NARCISSISTS: AN OBJECT RELATIONS PERSPECTIVE. Social Behavior & Personality: An International Journal, 34(10), 1189-1206.

 

[andalso]

I figured it out!
Sorry for any inconvenience my multiply posting caused.
:blushing:

No worries! We have all been there/done that ...(well...at least I have). :blushing:

I appreciate your effort and thank you for being here for Kelli!

 

[VOH910]

If he in fact did do something to Kelli, IMO he would have prepared his story prior to returning to FB. If he is the perp...he couldn't exactly say "no, she won't be here today, I did 'x,y,z' to her...".
I am guessing, VOH, that his answer seemed believable to you?
I would say, IMO, that on the TV interviews he tells his side of the story in a very believable way. I can't tell if he IS telling the truth or if he is just a very believable liar.

It did seem believable so much in fact that I didn't think twice about it - until I heard about Kelli. It is consistent with what he told in his interviews too. I was also with other people, so my focus was not really on NH at that point either. However, I have talked with my friend who was there with me at the point that NH sat at our table and chatted with us. He has also already talked to LE.

 

[Chili Fries]

It did seem believable so much in fact that I didn't think twice about it - until I heard about Kelli. It is consistent with what he told in his interviews too. I was also with other people, so my focus was not really on NH at that point either. However, I have talked with my friend who was there with me at the point that NH sat at our table and chatted with us. He has also already talked to LE.

Thanks for your input VOH.

Did he say anything that made you think he was unhappy with the way Kelli had acted that night, not just her acting weird by supposedly getting out of his car early but when they were at the bar? What I'm getting at is...did he give you any reason to think he was unhappy with the way things went between him and Kelli, that he had been expecting more from a possible date.

 

[nursebeeme]

hi VOH~!
Great to see you here!

I hope that there is some news soon about the investigation...

 

[Chili Fries]

If he in fact did do something to Kelli, IMO he would have prepared his story prior to returning to FB. If he is the perp...he couldn't exactly say "no, she won't be here today, I did 'x,y,z' to her...".
I am guessing, VOH, that his answer seemed believable to you?
I would say, IMO, that on the TV interviews he tells his side of the story in a very believable way. I can't tell if he IS telling the truth or if he is just a very believable liar.

I got the impression he was lying when Gilbert Baez asked him if he had anything to do with Kelli's disappearance. That was the second interview they did, when they were outside.

I agree that he could have prepared a story and stuck to it, especially because he's had experience with the justice sytem before. He knows how these things work.

I still think Nick is the most probable suspect by far but I have seen other cases where such a probable suspect did not do it. I don't rule out the possibility of another creep residing at Meadowbrook either, since you can read reviews of the complex that portray it as having poor security and some sketchy tenants and activity.

 

[sundrop]

What does research on serial killers have to do with Kelli's case?

In respect to serial killers much research on personality is abundant in the research literature. The general consensus is that some people have a predisposition to violence as well as an interaction between the environment, personality traits, and biological factors. There are various sociological, psychological, and biological theories that extend a partial understanding of serial murders.

One article I read claims that researchers look to the crime scene itself to discover the potential for two distinct types of serial killers; organized or disorganized (Knight, 2006). Personality types associated with serial killers are described as psychopathic personality types; narcissistic, paranoid or antisocial, bipolar mood disorder and are generally considered rare (Geberth, 1996; Hare, 1993; Hikey 1997; Miller, 2000; Money, 1990; Rtzuk, 1994; Schechter, 1990; Schlesinger, 1998; as cited in Knight, 2006).

Knight (2006) addresses the lack of appropriate object-relations (primary figures being the object, e.g., mother, father) and the subsequent development of narcissism in serial killers. To cut to the chase, Knight mentions in his article that when the parent does not give appropriate feedback such as mirroring and idealization a subsequent stunting occurs and the infant’s emerging needs are severally affected, which in turn affects the child’s sense of self and reality. Consequently, the child self- structure may become damaged resulting in a ‘developmental arrest’. This developmental arrest and we are discussing serial killers, produces pathological narcissism.

Holmes and Holmes (1998; as cited in Knight 2006) identifies two different types of serial killers; lust and thrill, both of which are classified as the organized type (this types makes detailed plans to kill, this includes stalking and abducting). An excerpt follows that describes one of these types of serial killers and the implications of a lack of appropriate object-relations and the emergence of a thrill serial killer:
These children would have experienced a profound sense of rejection and low self-esteem. The impact of this kind of dysfunctional object relation would result in the needs for grandiosity being repressed only to unconsciously surface as mirror-hungry behavior. The need for mirroring and attention may explain why thrill serial killers require that their victims remain fully awake and aware during torture as this awareness ensures a response, and this response offers – in fantasy and in reality – a sense of visibility. (Knight, 2006, p. 1197).

I don’t know if any of you can access this article, if you can, it is a good article to read that addresses the characteristics of some serial killers. If you can’t find this article, you could go to Google scholar and find one similar. There are so many out there, I grabbed this one and took a quick look at it. I am not an expert on serial killers, so please take this information with a grain of salt!

Reference

Knight, Z. G. (2006). SOME THOUGHTS ON THE PSYCHOLOGICAL ROOTS OF THE BEHAVIOR OF SERIAL KILLERS AS NARCISSISTS: AN OBJECT RELATIONS PERSPECTIVE. Social Behavior & Personality: An International Journal, 34(10), 1189-1206.

 

[CatABD]

I was replying to what Woe.be.gone was curious about. She mentioned she was interested in the childhood of serial killers.

 

[VOH910]

Thanks for your input VOH.

Did he say anything that made you think he was unhappy with the way Kelli had acted that night, not just her acting weird by supposedly getting out of his car early but when they were at the bar? What I'm getting at is...did he give you any reason to think he was unhappy with the way things went between him and Kelli, that he had been expecting more from a possible date.

No. It was nonchalant if you ask me.

 

[VOH910]

hi VOH~!
Great to see you here!

I hope that there is some news soon about the investigation...

Hi Nurse! Me too!

 

[VOH910]

I still think Nick is the most probable suspect by far but I have seen other cases where such a probable suspect did not do it. I don't rule out the possibility of another creep residing at Meadowbrook either, since you can read reviews of the complex that portray it as having poor security and some sketchy tenants and activity.

That's most of the apartments around that area. In addition, it isn't just the tenants you have to worry about but also their guests. Most do a background check on the tenants - but that doesn't mean they don't associate with people who shouldn't be there.

 

[Bravo]

I know i have missed some info. Has LE publicly stated the exact whereabouts of Kelli's Husband. Was he in Florida the whole time? If they haven't i find that very telling.

 

[Bravo]

No. It was nonchalant if you ask me.

Do you still see NH around?

 

[andalso]

Do you still see NH around?

NH has been in jail since 1 - 2 wks after Kelli's disappearance. He was arrested for RSO violations.

 

[ClaireNC]

NH has been in jail since 1 - 2 wks after Kelli's disappearance. He was arrested for RSO violations.

Not sure how long they can hold him for not registering an address as an RSO. Are you sure he is still incarcerated?

 

[Madeleine74]

He violated terms of his parole. Yes they can hold him and on a high enough bond that he can't bail out.