NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #21

[cluciano63]

It is just so against the usual for LE to name the crime a homicide when no body has been found, until they absolutely have exhausted every possibility, i.e. Haleigh. I think most of us knew/felt Haleigh was deceased right away, at least I did, but LE waited a year or more before calling the case a homicide. I just can't get what is different here. I do not believe they would call it homicide only due to hits by cadaver dogs, for instance. There has to be more.

 

[passionflower]

IMO, I am not ruling out the wood chipper, til Zahra is found.
One minute LE taking it apart piece by piece, dogs hit everywhere there.
Then LE says No, nothing.
I think this is being close to the vest also.
At that time period it seemed to me that LE stopped looking for her BODY.

 

[Paige SC]

But if they were cadaver dogs - and if the dogs hit on both cars, seems to me she was carried away in parts. Unless they are picking up on the scent of human decomp carried on the clothes of ZB and EB?

 

[Angleena]

I'm thinking back to when Jarrod Harrell was arrested on child charges but not charged with murdering Somer Thompson right away. I remember and expert saying that as long as he wasn't charged with the murder of Somer, they could ask him all the questions about Somer they wanted to without having to provide him with a lawyer in that case. He wasn't under arrest for murder at that time so they could ask him anything they wanted....technicality in the law, you have a right to a lawyer AFTER you are placed under arrest for that crime. Of course you also have the right to not answer any questions if you are not under arrest for that crime they are questioning you about.

They have EB in jail, you can bet they are questioning her about Zahra. You can also bet they have evidence that only the murderer would know about (because it has not been released to the media). They are questioning EB, hoping she will tell them something that only LE and the murderer know....getting her to implicate herself.

As long as EB is in jail, time to build a case against her is on LE's side.

 

[Paige SC]

It is just so against the usual for LE to name the crime a homicide when no body has been found, until they absolutely have exhausted every possibility, i.e. Haleigh. I think most of us knew/felt Haleigh was deceased right away, at least I did, but LE waited a year or more before calling the case a homicide. I just can't get what is different here. I do not believe they would call it homicide only due to hits by cadaver dogs, for instance. There has to be more.

I'm with you on that!

 

[SmoothOperator]

That's what they said but they also said that about the wood chipper. There was a discussion some 10 threads back about the actual type of dogs they were using and it was mentioned 'cadaver dogs' may have been used when, in fact, they were scent trackers or blood trackers (not the type of dogs trained in human decomposition)

per the search warrant...they were dogs used in the recovery of bodies...

 

[Paige SC]

IMO, I am not ruling out the wood chipper, til Zahra is found.
One minute LE taking it apart piece by piece, dogs hit everywhere there.
Then LE says No, nothing.
I think this is being close to the vest also.
At that time period it seemed to me that LE stopped looking for her BODY.

But didn't those dogs hit ONLY on the engine/motor portion of the woodchipper? Those things are massive. If human remains entered it, there would have to be forensic evidence three miles long, don't you think?

 

[Tikki]

It is just so against the usual for LE to name the crime a homicide when no body has been found, until they absolutely have exhausted every possibility, i.e. Haleigh. I think most of us knew/felt Haleigh was deceased right away, at least I did, but LE waited a year or more before calling the case a homicide. I just can't get what is different here. I do not believe they would call it homicide only due to hits by cadaver dogs, for instance. There has to be more.

imho, I think they must have found (evidence of) a significant amount of blood. I can't think of any other reason they would be so sure she wasn't alive?

 

[Paige SC]

Were the dogs called out to the house before or after they announced this was a homicide case? Anyone recall?

 

[lauriej]

They have EB in jail, you can bet they are questioning her about Zahra. You can also bet they have evidence that only the murderer would know about (because it has not been released to the media). They are questioning EB, hoping she will tell them something that only LE and the murderer know....getting her to implicate herself.

As long as EB is in jail, time to build a case against her is on LE's side.

...snipped your post to comment on this one portion.

...once she admitted to writing the ransom note------she asked for a lawyer.

...i doubt that she has said ONE word to LE since.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I'm thinking back to when Jarrod Harrell was arrested on child charges but not charged with murdering Somer Thompson right away. I remember and expert saying that as long as he wasn't charged with the murder of Somer, they could ask him all the questions about Somer they wanted to without having to provide him with a lawyer in that case. He wasn't under arrest for murder at that time so they could ask him anything they wanted....technicality in the law, you have a right to a lawyer AFTER you are placed under arrest for that crime. Of course you also have the right to not answer any questions if you are not under arrest for that crime they are questioning you about.

They have EB in jail, you can bet they are questioning her about Zahra. You can also bet they have evidence that only the murderer would know about (because it has not been released to the media). They are questioning EB, hoping she will tell them something that only LE and the murderer know....getting her to implicate herself.

As long as EB is in jail, time to build a case against her is on LE's side.

ITA with what you're saying above but I highly doubt that with EB having a lawyer and now a 2nd top dog well known defense lawyer...thAT LE isn't getting to question Elisa about anything[atleast not getting any answeres that is...]

In that aspect it reminds me of Terri Horman that once lawyered with Houze also a renowned defense atty...LE has not been able to question her, either

**and yes I realize 2 completely different cases and that Terri Horman is not incarcerated as EB is, but nonetheless, this isn't the first similarity that sadly has reminded me of precious Kyron**

 

[DLT88]

Well, let's see Mrs. G....the things that have crossed my mind are.. that LE has found DNA on the items taken from the home...such as the bedrails, the headboard, etc.. and that as has been discussed that suspiciously the "new" mattress in Zahras room had no DNA from Z..meaning she never had even slept in it..Thus leading them to the important search for the "original" mattress which LE feel will have a significant amount of blood/DNA of Zs on it...

I have also thought that possibly they already do have the prosthetic leg[also possibly with traces of blood,,of course am just guessing here].. but possibly thats why they ask for the serial #, etc for Zs leg because they've already found it...

Something is telling me that LE is thinking they will not recover her body...I cannot explain exactly why I believe this but I do...I mean they were adamant about that they were not looking for a body in that landfill..why not? why would they not believe that possibly her body was in that landfill? unless they already knew exactly what had become of her body,,,kwim???

as I said am only guessing here, but at this point thats all we can do...

I wonder if maybe, God forbid, they found a bone chip or something in a mulch pile and realized, (how morbid!) perhaps her body was 'scattered' around many different areas. Of course, DNA would have to be performed on any fragment like that to even know it was Z's. I thought it was very odd for them to make the claim "we're not looking for the body at the landfill". How else would they know the body is not there? I can't wait until something breaks and LE lets us know everything. I think maybe, to build a strong solid case, they need to keep many secrets right now because only the killer would know what they know so they can't let it out yet maybe.

 

[stormsailor]

we know a tearful officer changed a child search to a homicide investigation.

remains must have been found and/or enough evidence to conclude that the child was deceased.

now le must collect evidence to prove homicide. and then le must further collect evidence to prove a specific charge of homicide.

le has no duty to disclose what evidence they have, or have collected. particularly when the media will sensationalize it and perhaps taint a potential pool of jurors.

from the clues provided by media and le at this time we might not even have a homicide, i.e. without any proof, step-mom could say she died of the flu, etc. etc. etc. and without any other evidence, that is not a homicide.

 

[passionflower]

But didn't those dogs hit ONLY on the engine/motor portion of the woodchipper? Those things are massive. If human remains entered it, there would have to be forensic evidence three miles long, don't you think?

That is what someone said in a report, but LE may be playing "BUDDY" to EB.
Seeing if he goes back to chipper or gets nervous etc.
There was 2 chippers looked at ......one in back yard and one 12 miles away at his work.
For some reason they spent allot of time out there for it to be a cut finger on an engine.
So far I am not buying any reports.
I am going on the actions LE is going through.
this is only my own thoughts.
1. dogs hit, dogs wrong
2. chipper piece by piece, nothing found
3. found mattress, no mattress found
4. 5 day search, ends at 3 days
5. no word on gooy glove
6. no word on Monte Carlo
7. no word on bed frame and rails
etc

 

[SmoothOperator]

Were the dogs called out to the house before or after they announced this was a homicide case? Anyone recall?

yes...lemme see if I can find a link to support that[but I know that they were out there prior to them calling it a homicide]..

IIRC it was in the PC where LE stated that Elisa had admitted to writing the ransom note, that is when they also announced sadly that it was being called a homicide at that point...[remember that LE teared up..so sad, he knew at that time precious Z was no longer alive...] and something that occurred in their talking to Elisa along with what was originally found in and around that home is what had them change it to homicide...
'
Now what in the hell was it that had them make this drastic change?

 

[cluciano63]

We've seen tearful officers out in Oregon too but they won't say anything except that they have no reason to believe Kyron is not alive, since they have not found his body.

 

[DLT88]

Perhaps they aren't looking for a *body* persay.. maybe they are looking for body *parts*? Or perhaps they know enough to establish the manner of death and a full body recovery just isn't possible? See, unless it's something truly sinister like dismembering, I just don't think these people are smart enough to hide a body THAT WELL. At first, I thought they had enough time to dispose of her body (if it had been a month or better) but I think this was a hasty murder fueled by the rage of a meth head. And if they did dismember her, they had to do it in the yard because there's no way you can pull that off inside a home and not be arrested on the spot (body or not).

Yeah, I noticed that EB was kind of nervous calling about the fire and I saw guilt concerning the mulch piles in the yard. It was like "I have to explain the mulch piles!" Why the heck for? But I heard the dogs didn't pick up any scents in the mulch piles but there is something about mulch piles that is bringing out EB's consciousness of guilt.

 

[SmoothOperator]

But if they were cadaver dogs - and if the dogs hit on both cars, seems to me she was carried away in parts. Unless they are picking up on the scent of human decomp carried on the clothes of ZB and EB?

Paige, I am scared that it is exactly something of this sort... I think that as mentioned earlier there has been a great deal of blood evidence found in that home, on the bedrails, on the headboard, luminol showed a very horrendous picture of the amount of blood... I have seen cases be turned to homicides because of the amount of blood found... I think the know that when they have the right mattress thry'll be no mistaking it[because of the amount of blood that they know will be found on it]...

IMO this is why they are so sure at this time they have NOT FOUND ZAHRAS ORIGINAL MATTRESS...

******This last part is ONLY MY OPINION~ I really really have a feeling that LE ALREADY HAS THE PROSTHETIC LEG...as I said OJMO, but I truly do think this...and that its already been verified thru the dr records cross matching the legs serial number....

 

[Paige SC]

It's hard to know what to believe from any media reports. Truly. This case has been a hard one to follow from the get-go. Narrowing down the type of dogs used and what SPECIFICALLY the dogs hit on has been a major undertaking by itself.

What I do know is that EB is a socio. Oh, I also saw her *real* birth date was in fact 6/6/68? I can't believe that. I know she wanted it to be but that would be far too coincidental for me to swallow. They need to double check that date!

And AB knows what happened. He helped cover the crime. I almost believe he helped execute it. Nonetheless, there seems to be something *wrong* with him? Forrest Gumpish like? He's not the sharpest tack in the box and LE is using this to their advantage. Whatever their strategy, I do trust they know what their doing and with the FBI involved, they aren't making ANY inept decisions or careless moves.

 

[imamaze]

I kept trying to find where I had heard and had the impression he was not at home much because of work. This is interesting what was asked about this to News 14...
Zahra Baker Questions to News 14 Carolina
Where do you get that Adam was out of town working and when he came home..did you listen to the 911 call, he was there for the fire. That's not all what happened, and you should fact check before answering these questions. Terrible reporting. You should be ashamed.
In the beginning, it was reported the parents last saw her at 2:30 am. Then as questions began to surface around that timeline, people close with the investigation and the family, said Adam was out of town working and when he returned, that's when his wife, Elisa, came running out of the house to tell him Zahra was missing. In fact, Adam Baker said that in an interview with Good Morning America also.

GMA: Zahra Baker Case
On a recording of the second call obtained by ABC News, Adam Baker said that the last time he saw his daughter was at 2:30 that Saturday morning. But two days later on "Good Morning America," Adam Baker said that because of his work schedule, he hadn't seen the girl since Thursday. The girl's stepmother, Elisa Baker, was the last one to see her alive at 2:30 a.m. on Saturday, Adam Baker said.