NCAA Sanctions: "DP" for Penn Football, or...?

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

Should the NCAA give Penn State the "death penalty"?


  • Total voters
    97
Respectfully snipped & bolded by me:

And that is one of the grave failings of the Freeh report. His team drew the conclusion that McQueary's report was not forwarded to the authorities out of the concern of negative publicity. But Freeh never spoke to Curley, Schultz, McQueary or Paterno, and Spanier didn't tell the investigators that, so what turns this from speculation into proven facts to support the punishments handed down?

Respectfully snipped.

This is why I'm looking at 1998. Everybody in that 10/13/98 meeting, except Ganter, was involved in May with the Sandusky investigation.

Freeh actually suppressed some of Schultz's notes; some appeared in the Spainer presentment but not in the Freeh Report. That presentment spends the first 6 pages talking about the 1998 incident.

Sloane, who was at the 1998 meeting, was arrested a month before Spanier. The drug charges look excessive, based on the amount of drugs LE claims. They could be trying to pressure him.

I think there is a bombshell coming with regard to 1998.
 
Respectfully snipped.

This is why I'm looking at 1998. Everybody in that 10/13/98 meeting, except Ganter, was involved in May with the Sandusky investigation.

Freeh actually suppressed some of Schultz's notes; some appeared in the Spainer presentment but not in the Freeh Report. That presentment spends the first 6 pages talking about the 1998 incident.

Sloane, who was at the 1998 meeting, was arrested a month before Spanier. The drug charges look excessive, based on the amount of drugs LE claims. They could be trying to pressure him.

I think there is a bombshell coming with regard to 1998.

So if PSU admins had developed a relationship with LE and the DA in 1998 regarding the complaint that was dropped through no action of Penn State's, why wouldn't that have made it easier for them to involve authorities in 2001?

And if there is a bombshell related to the 98 investigation, would it be a black mark on Penn State, or on Gricar and the police agencies?

The other problem is that, in addition to not knowing for certain what that meeting was about, we also don't know who else beside Ganter may have attended from Penn State's end.

I am interested in your thoughts about who has reason to pressure Sloane, and as Twindad asked, in which direction you think the pressure is directed.
 
So if PSU admins had developed a relationship with LE and the DA in 1998 regarding the complaint that was dropped through no action of Penn State's, why wouldn't that have made it easier for them to involve authorities in 2001?

That I will not even guess at that.

And if there is a bombshell related to the 98 investigation, would it be a black mark on Penn State, or on Gricar and the police agencies?

At least Penn State (which jibs with the 1998-2000 vacated games penalty). If there were in depth discussions about the "Sandusky situation" in 1998, they would obviously know that 2001 was a problem.

The other problem is that, in addition to not knowing for certain what that meeting was about, we also don't know who else beside Ganter may have attended from Penn State's end.

Gamin indicated that Sloane was involved in the 1998 investigation. So we do know that it was an "investigation" and that everyone from LE was involved with Sandusky. That should raise a big red flag, or perhaps a field of them.

Now, the last grand jury presentment spent 6 pages talking about 1998. The person closest to the DA and that is available was arrested on drug charges about a month prior to Spanier being indited. That gives prosecutors very strong leverage.

I am interested in your thoughts about who has reason to pressure Sloane, and as Twindad asked, in which direction you think the pressure is directed.

Most of it is on the Gricar thread, but Sloane is being charged with trafficking for what prosecutors say he bought for $250. From what I can tell, that is not a lot of money for someone wanting to sell drugs. It looks like possibly overcharging. Overcharging would give prosecutors a lot of leverage.
 
And that is one of the grave failings of the Freeh report. His team drew the conclusion that McQueary's report was not forwarded to the authorities out of the concern of negative publicity. But Freeh never spoke to Curley, Schultz, McQueary or Paterno, and Spanier didn't tell the investigators that, so what turns this from speculation into proven facts to support the punishments handed down?

In the emails between the administrators, the only reason they discussed was the desire to confront Sandusky before involving other agencies, in a ridiculous attempt to handle it "humane"ly. But this first-person evidence was dismissed as a theory in favor of the Commission's pet motive; so it was written and so it became accepted.

I doubt that we will ever get the full truth out of any of the men facing trial for the coverup, but that doesn't mean that Freeh's suggestion is automatically true either.

RSBM

True, the Freeh group was not allowed to interview those 4 men cited due to legal actions they were involved in, however, they did have the emails from 1998, the police report, interviews with LE involved, the DPW worker, counselors Dr. Chambers and Seasock. They investigated whether there was a report made in 2001 and had the grand jury report with Curley's and Shultz's statement and that they were charged with lying and not reporting the abuse. They had McQueary's testimony of what he had seen and done and how he reported it to Paterno, Curley and Shultz, however, no police report of the incident existed. Paterno admitted he was told the abuse was sexual and that he did not report it to LE either. Besides this evidence, Freeh stated that his group interviewed over 400 people from the school and other agencies involved who provided them with more information of procedures, atmosphere and how things worked at the school regarding the football team. I think their conclusion was a reasonable, not speculative, one.

Several of the articles linked in the twitter entries above gave some analysis of Corbett's suit:

1/Deadspin is in favor of the suit but most of the comments do not agree with him:

http://deadspin.com/5972596/?utm_ca...source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

............So is the lawsuit an attempt to absolve Penn State officials of any alleged wrongdoing?

No, though that hasn't stopped writers like Christine Brennan from viewing it that way. In fact, the suit says explicitly that "the Commonwealth emphatically repudiates the conduct of the university officials who knew about the underlying offenses and failed to report them to law enforcement authorities." It's an important distinction, since the NCAA has already reacted to the lawsuit by shamelessly hiding behind Sandusky's victims. But the courts are there to take care of the three Penn State administrators still facing criminal charges. The target here is the NCAA, and the NCAA alone, because the NCAA—a legal and moral enormity that is nothing more than a complex worker's-comp avoidance scheme—often does what it wants and comes up with some airy bull**** to justify having done so. In the case of Penn State, the NCAA used the horrors of Sandusky's crimes to assume powers it doesn't actually have. Hate the school all you want. Penn State is firmly on the side of the angels here.

Typical comment: So, the NCAA is full of ****, so therefore we should support a lawsuit that is borne more out of the political motivations of a Governor who is also full of ****? Sorry, I don't buy it.

But maybe it would be better to illustrate this within the context of the power that the NCAA *does* have--to regulate and punish for the purpose of ensuring competitive integrity:

A school and it's players are punished if one of the players receives illicit benefits, because it means that school had the services of a player that it might not otherwise have had. In the case of Sandusky, the team was allowed to continue using an excellent defensive coordinator because he recieved the "benefit" of not being charged with a crime when it was discovered that he was raping children in the locker rooms. Then, Penn State continued to receive the leadership of another great coach, because that coach received the benefit of having no consequences for actively concealing the illegal behavior of his coach and friend.

In other words, Penn State received a competitive advantage that they wouldn't have otherwise had (if the administration had followed the law) because they provided Sandusky and then Paterno with the benefit of covering up an incredibly heinous crime.

The NCAA may be full of ****, but I refuse to believe that the sanctions they handed down as a response to the systemic cover-up of a child rape ring is the banner we need to hoist up to rally the masses to end the NCAA.

2/http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2013/0102/Pennsylvania-suing-NCAA-over-Penn-State-sanctions.-Does-it-have-a-case

.........Where the state might encounter difficulty is proving that the NCAA pressured Penn State President Rodney Erickson into what Corbett says was “silent compliance with its sanctions by threatening to impose even more debilitating sanctions to the football program.” In his complaint, Corbett wants the consent agreement the university signed with the NCAA to be declared illegal.

Mark Conrad, who teaches sports law at Fordham University in New York City, says the university took swift action in signing off with the NCAA actions without challenge, which will make it difficult to suggest they were coerced.
“It seems the university wanted to wash their hands of [the scandal] pretty quickly. I don’t know how [the state] is going to prove they were forced,” Mr. Conrad says.

3/Michael McCann
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/co...130102/penn-state-lawsuit-analysis/index.html

.............The NCAA can attack the lawsuit on several grounds.
First, the NCAA can insist the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania lacks standing to sue the NCAA. This argument would be simple: Corbett does not work for Penn State, and the Pennsylvania government's relationship to Penn State is mainly based on financial assistance rather than in direction. Therefore, they lack the right to file a lawsuit over Penn State's sanction.
-----------
Second, the NCAA can argue it was contractually authorized to sanction Penn State, which is a member of the NCAA by voluntary choice, not by requirement. The NCAA can cite at least two contracts: the membership agreement between Penn State and the NCAA which requires Penn State to follow the NCAA Constitution and Bylaws, and the consent decree in which Penn State clearly accepted sanction for violating specific provisions of the Constitution and Bylaws. The NCAA could thus argue that it has explained its grounds for sanction and that the only party who can commence challenge -- Penn State -- has relinquished that right.

-----------
Lastly, the NCAA may go after Corbett for his action -- or inaction -- in prosecuting Sandusky as Attorney General of Pennsylvania from 2005 to 2011. There was a three-year gap between a grand jury charged with reviewing Sandusky and Sandusky's indictment in November 2011, with a suspicion that Corbett, running for governor in 2009 and 2010, proceeded slowly so as to avoid alienating Penn State alums. The NCAA could maintain Corbett's own behavior contributed to the injury for which he now seeks redress. Corbett's supporters, however, contend he proceeded deliberately in order to develop the most airtight case against Sandusky, who would be convicted on 45 of 48 counts.
 
Penn State hasn't lost the support of a wealth donor.


Football coach O'Brien to stay at Penn State

By Mark Dent / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Penn State and Bill O'Brien's agent confirmed tonight that the Penn State head coach will keep his position the football team, nullifying the reports and rumors linking him to NFL jobs this week.
O'Brien spoke tonight to the Harrisburg Patriot News, saying "I'm not a one-and-done guy. I made a commitment to these players at Penn State and that's what I am going to do. I'm not gonna cut and run after one year. That's for sure."
O'Brien's agent, Joe Linta, told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette O'Brien was "very excited for the upcoming season."
The Patriot News also reported that Penn State would increase O'Brien's yearly salary. Penn State acting athletic director Dave Joyner did not respond to interview requests.



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...een-penn-state-nfl-jobs-668918/#ixzz2H0Zh2VxE
 
Specifics on the wealthy donating to Penn State....

From Forbes Magazine (on line)

Brian Solomon, Forbes Staff

Covering billionaires in sports, tech, and more.

Bill O'Brien Stays At Penn State With Help From Billionaire Booster


As many NFL teams searched for their next head coach this week, one name that was bandied about was Bill O’Brien, head coach at Penn State. This sent shivers down the spines of many Penn State alumni, who didn’t want to see their team’s new leader depart beleaguered Happy Valley after just a single season.

However, with monetary help from billionaire booster Terrence Pegula, Penn State managed to retain O’Brien’s services. According to David Jones of The Patriot News, O’Brien will forgo the chance to jump to the NFL after he was given two concessions: forthcoming “structural and personnel changes in the Penn State athletic department” and a significant pay raise.

According to Jones, Pegula has donated $1.3 million to be added to O’Brien’s salary in 2013. That gift takes his total pay to $3.6 million, making O’Brien among the highest-paid coaches in college football.

Pegula, who made his fortune in natural gas and currently owns the Buffalo Sabres hockey team, had previously donated $103 million to his alma mater. That gift went toward building a new hockey arena and creating a division one-level team to compete in it. Pegula follows in the footsteps of other major billionaire sports boosters like Phil Knight at Oregon and T. Boone Pickens at Oklahoma State. As of the Forbes 400 in September, we estimated his total net worth at $3 billion, enough to make him the 132nd richest person in the U.S.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/brianso...enn-state-with-help-from-billionaire-booster/

On the Frobes Web page there is a link to another article asking if the Sandusky scandal helped Penn State make more money. According to an article by Chris Smith another Forbes Staff writer Penn State received $208.7 Million Dollars over the last fiscal year the second highest amount Penn State ever collected.
 
Game attendance is down, but the trend started in, at the latest, 2009, before the scandal and the sanctions.
 
AP: Criminal cases made Pa. AG hand over NCAA suit

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?id=19235422&ps=1011&cat=&cps=0&lang=en

HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) — Pennsylvania's attorney general said she granted Gov. Tom Corbett the authority to file a federal antitrust lawsuit against the NCAA because the litigation could present a conflict of interest as her office prosecutes three Penn State administrators............

"The size and scope of that criminal case, which includes extensive grand jury testimony and other confidential information related to the university,made it untenable for the Office of Attorney General to pursue a civil lawsuit involving the NCAA's sanctions of Penn State," Kelly said. "Given the serious nature of both these cases, keeping these matters separate is the best course of action for the people of Pennsylvania."............

Kelly said her office received a request from Corbett's lawyer James D. Schultz on Friday, Dec. 14, for permission to sue the NCAA. Her office granted it three days later, she said. That authority, signed by the chief of her litigation section, can be terminated or amended by the attorney general's office, and it does not cover any appeals.

More at link.....
 
Politically brilliant. Corbett files the suit and will make Kane be the one to withdraw it, or requires her to support it.
 
http://marcellus-shale.us/political-contributions.htm
Terrence Pegula and his wife have contributed over $200,000 to Corbett which, to me anyway, seems like a large amount. Don't forget he also donated over $100,000,000 to PSU for ice hockey. I don't believe he spent all that money expecting nothing in return.

The return in relation to the donation at Penn State could have been a tax deduction and his name on a building.

The Corbett donation could help him access, without actually a quid pro quo, or knowing that Corbett would favor policies that would net Pegula more than the donation or even ideology.

The donation accounts for less that 1% of what Corbett spent.

http://www.followthemoney.org/database/StateGlance/state_candidates.phtml?s=PA&y=2010&f=G
 
The return in relation to the donation at Penn State could have been a tax deduction and his name on a building.

I wouldn't know about that I've never had that much money!

The Corbett donation could help him access, without actually a quid pro quo, or knowing that Corbett would favor policies that would net Pegula more than the donation or even ideology.

You mean things like this? http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...llus-shale-advisory-commission-117593393.html Want to guess who is on it?

The donation accounts for less that 1% of what Corbett spent.

What about the donations made thru business: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=East_Resources
His wife Kim, donated $360,000 to Corbett in 2010.

To me it seems Corbett filed the suit with the NCAA to try and obtain a better return on investment.
 
I wouldn't know about that I've never had that much money!

Well, there are many people that do. If I had a few million, I'd be donating more to Penn State.


It makes sense. Corbett is a longtime supporter of Marcellus Shale development. People that will profit from it will support Corbett.


What about the donations made thru business: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=East_Resources
His wife Kim, donated $360,000 to Corbett in 2010.

That total was less than 2% than what Corbett raised.

You'll note that the same site says: Pegula and his wife, Kim, were frequent funders of pro-drilling politicians.


To me it seems Corbett filed the suit with the NCAA to try and obtain a better return on investment.

It has more to do with trying to appease alumni. There could be another factor. Corbett can't claim that the NCAA is taking the money out of PA if they spend most of it in PA. It could be an attempt to keep them spending it in state.
 
http://newslanc.com/2013/01/06/crony-in-the-court-corbett-and-the-ncaa-lawsuit/
A look at who is handling the case in PA. I think it's interesting to note that Judge Yvette Kane is also hearing the cases regarding insurance coverage for Sandusky's defense.

The relationship between Ridge and Corbett is tenuous at best.

The assignment of judges was not under Corbett's control, nor was their initial appointment. Under "senatorial courtesy" all would have needed the support of Spector.

This is how works in all states.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
72
Guests online
1,317
Total visitors
1,389

Forum statistics

Threads
605,790
Messages
18,192,271
Members
233,543
Latest member
Dutah82!!
Back
Top