NE - 4 Teenage Girls Die in Fiery Single Vehicle Automobile Crash, 5th Burned, Gretna, 17 June 2019

[Rocky1]

BBM. I disagree. Drunk drivers are a menace to other drivers and their age and gender are irrelevant. The driver in this case was driving over 90 mph. What if she had struck another car and killed people? Their parents weren't all that "great" if they failed to convey to their child that there are consequences for illegal and incredibly irresponsible actions.

The surviving teen can be prosecuted for obstruction of justice so I don't blame her parents for getting her a lawyer. I would do the same thing if it were my daughter. Hopefully, other teens have learned from this tragedy. It has certainly been in the local news headlines daily.

JMO

Snipped:
The surviving teen can be prosecuted for obstruction of justice.

I watched that on the news.
The surviving teen is under no obligation to speak to the cops or to anyone for that matter. She, just like an adult can assert her 5th amendment right to remain silent.
The cops know that. They are using scare tactics so they can scare someone into talking.
Legally, the worst thing that anyone can do is to talk to the cops, period. The cops know that too. Every word you say to a cop can be used against you. Although cops will come off like they are your friend, from the moment they say "hello" they are trying to build a case against you.
Morally, I'm sure many think that someone should come forward.
The smartest thing her mother did was to hire an attorney. Anything this girl says can affect her in one way or another for the rest of her life.
I watched another interview with the Sheriff where he said he wanted people to be "Gretna Strong" and to come forward so this won't happen again, like there's a serial criminal in the community giving out alcohol to minors, and if he's not caught, many more will die.
The sad fact is, regardless if the person responsible is prosecuted or not, according to MADD, 25% of all accidents involve minors who have been drinking.

Statistics | MADD

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Good Lord, this has turned into even more of an ugly mess. I never saw any of this coming and am so sorry to read of it. There are absolutely no winners regardless of how this is handled going forward.

I, too, was one of those girls out in my teens drinking with friends in my bff’s convertible until all hours of the night. I have to admit they were the best times of my life! But now I realize that I never once thought about how our actions could affect our families & the community had we wrecked & been hurt, died or hurt /killed someone else. I shudder to think how many chances I took & how irresponsible I was then.

 

[Snick1946]

Just a clarification. When I referred to NE as a very 'Libertarian' state, I was referring to general attitudes toward government, not to the party of that name. It wasn't meant to imply this is a bad thing, it's just what is; politicians in this state seem more inclined to take the path of less governmental oversight on things.

 

[CCmakes3]

Snipped:
The surviving teen can be prosecuted for obstruction of justice.

I watched that on the news.
The surviving teen is under no obligation to speak to the cops or to anyone for that matter. She, just like an adult can assert her 5th amendment right to remain silent.
The cops know that. They are using scare tactics so they can scare someone into talking.
Legally, the worst thing that anyone can do is to talk to the cops, period. The cops know that too. Every word you say to a cop can be used against you. Although cops will come off like they are your friend, from the moment they say "hello" they are trying to build a case against you.
Morally, I'm sure many think that someone should come forward.
The smartest thing her mother did was to hire an attorney. Anything this girl says can affect her in one way or another for the rest of her life.
I watched another interview with the Sheriff where he said he wanted people to be "Gretna Strong" and to come forward so this won't happen again, like there's a serial criminal in the community giving out alcohol to minors, and if he's not caught, many more will die.
The sad fact is, regardless if the person responsible is prosecuted or not, according to MADD, 25% of all accidents involve minors who have been drinking.

Statistics | MADD

I understand this sentiment. I really do. But as a parent of a teenager who is very vigilant about what is happening when kids are at my home, it is frustrating to hear about parents who are more concerned about being their children's "best friend" than being a decent parent. There is a contingent of wealthy families in this area who think they are above the law and want to do anything to be the most popular parents on the block. It happens all the time around here.

Parents Of Students Cited In Millard MIP Bust Speak Out

In fact, these parents are so arrogant about their kids' right to drink alcohol consequence-free that they go running to the news media when the police try to enforce the law:

Stothert says mother of teen cited for MIP shouldn't complain to news media

It kind of undermines what the rest of us are trying to do as responsible parents. When my children became old enough to have friends over, I rearranged my home to accommodate this, removing all alcohol from the basement and turning it into a "rec room" for the kids. We are by no means rich, but we have a decent entertainment system and we know how to walk the fine line between being hospitable without being overbearing and trying to ingratiate ourselves into our kids' social circles. Thus, our home is one of the most popular hang-out spots in the neighborhood and we don't have to serve alcohol in order for our kids' friends to come over. It's not rocket science.

I understand that my son and his friends may go elsewhere to drink. Hell, I understand that it's even possible someone may be sneaking a flask into my basement. But at least I am not condoning it or worse yet, providing it. I have educated my kids about the dangers of drinking and driving and I have set ground rules against underage drinking in my home. I feel good about that. If my son went to someone else's house and was served alcohol, I'm sorry but I would not be OK with that.

 

[CCmakes3]

I understand that the majority of teenagers drink alcohol or use other drugs. But imagine how much worse the problem would be if we just gave up and condoned it. If we fail to enforce laws that are on the books for preventing teenage drinking, then we are condoning teenage drinking.

 

[Rocky1]

I understand this sentiment. I really do. But as a parent of a teenager who is very vigilant about what is happening when kids are at my home, it is frustrating to hear about parents who are more concerned about being their children's "best friend" than being a decent parent. There is a contingent of wealthy families in this area who think they are above the law and want to do anything to be the most popular parents on the block. It happens all the time around here.

Parents Of Students Cited In Millard MIP Bust Speak Out

In fact, these parents are so arrogant about their kids' right to drink alcohol consequence-free that they go running to the news media when the police try to enforce the law:

Stothert says mother of teen cited for MIP shouldn't complain to news media

It kind of undermines what the rest of us are trying to do as responsible parents. When my children became old enough to have friends over, I rearranged my home to accommodate this, removing all alcohol from the basement and turning it into a "rec room" for the kids. We are by no means rich, but we have a decent entertainment system and we know how to walk the fine line between being hospitable without being overbearing and trying to ingratiate ourselves into our kids' social circles. Thus, our home is one of the most popular hang-out spots in the neighborhood and we don't have to serve alcohol in order for our kids' friends to come over. It's not rocket science.

I understand that my son and his friends may go elsewhere to drink. Hell, I understand that it's even possible someone may be sneaking a flask into my basement. But at least I am not condoning it or worse yet, providing it. I have educated my kids about the dangers of drinking and driving and I have set ground rules against underage drinking in my home. I feel good about that. If my son went to someone else's house and was served alcohol, I'm sorry but I would not be OK with that.

I like your post.
I too had parents that would never allow alcohol on the house when I was a kid, and my house was always the house everyone hung around.
That is except for those times we had parties, and then we'd drive to one of 3 party spots drink all night and then drive away. When and if the cops showed up, it was only because someone complained about the noise and they'd say we had to go. So, we'd get in our cars drunk, and take the party to another spot while the cruiser was parked watching us all leave.
And then one night, my classmate was killed in a car he was riding in, when it crashed leaving the party. Did that stop anyone? No.
Is that safer than parents letting kids drink at their house where they can keep an eye on them?
I'd say that most are divided on that answer, however one thing that we can all agree on is that just about everyone that has posted here has done the same as these kids did. Get alcohol by any means possible, drink it, and drive drunk.
Will that ever change? I doubt it.

 

[Rocky1]

I understand this sentiment. I really do. But as a parent of a teenager who is very vigilant about what is happening when kids are at my home, it is frustrating to hear about parents who are more concerned about being their children's "best friend" than being a decent parent. There is a contingent of wealthy families in this area who think they are above the law and want to do anything to be the most popular parents on the block. It happens all the time around here.

Parents Of Students Cited In Millard MIP Bust Speak Out

In fact, these parents are so arrogant about their kids' right to drink alcohol consequence-free that they go running to the news media when the police try to enforce the law:

Stothert says mother of teen cited for MIP shouldn't complain to news media

It kind of undermines what the rest of us are trying to do as responsible parents. When my children became old enough to have friends over, I rearranged my home to accommodate this, removing all alcohol from the basement and turning it into a "rec room" for the kids. We are by no means rich, but we have a decent entertainment system and we know how to walk the fine line between being hospitable without being overbearing and trying to ingratiate ourselves into our kids' social circles. Thus, our home is one of the most popular hang-out spots in the neighborhood and we don't have to serve alcohol in order for our kids' friends to come over. It's not rocket science.

I understand that my son and his friends may go elsewhere to drink. Hell, I understand that it's even possible someone may be sneaking a flask into my basement. But at least I am not condoning it or worse yet, providing it. I have educated my kids about the dangers of drinking and driving and I have set ground rules against underage drinking in my home. I feel good about that. If my son went to someone else's house and was served alcohol, I'm sorry but I would not be OK with that.

Snipped:

In fact, these parents are so arrogant about their kids' right to drink alcohol consequence-free that they go running to the news media when the police try to enforce the law:

Stothert says mother of teen cited for MIP shouldn't complain to news media

Snipped from the article.

Janke said Omaha police threatened, intimidated and lied to her son in an effort to secure a Breathalyzer test.

From what I understood while reading this article, and I may be wrong, was that the mother was upset because of the intimidating tactics the police used.
Cops can lie all they want to.
That's another reason, to never talk to the cops regardless if you are an adult or a minor.
Cops can question, intimidate, and arrest a minor without their parents being there.
What they can't do is continue questioning when a minor requests their parents, or an attorney be present.
Would a parent be a bad parent if they educated their kids, and told them that? Or, would they just be trying to protect their kids?

 

[MyBelle]

Snipped:
The surviving teen can be prosecuted for obstruction of justice.

I watched that on the news.
The surviving teen is under no obligation to speak to the cops or to anyone for that matter. She, just like an adult can assert her 5th amendment right to remain silent.
The cops know that. They are using scare tactics so they can scare someone into talking.
Legally, the worst thing that anyone can do is to talk to the cops, period. The cops know that too. Every word you say to a cop can be used against you. Although cops will come off like they are your friend, from the moment they say "hello" they are trying to build a case against you.
Morally, I'm sure many think that someone should come forward.
The smartest thing her mother did was to hire an attorney. Anything this girl says can affect her in one way or another for the rest of her life.
I watched another interview with the Sheriff where he said he wanted people to be "Gretna Strong" and to come forward so this won't happen again, like there's a serial criminal in the community giving out alcohol to minors, and if he's not caught, many more will die.
The sad fact is, regardless if the person responsible is prosecuted or not, according to MADD, 25% of all accidents involve minors who have been drinking.

Statistics | MADD

What's wrong with scare tactics? Cops use scare tactics, including lying, with adults. Should they behave differently because of age and gender? As I said, I also would have hired an attorney for my child but I would also know she was going to be held accountable by the court whether she cooperated or not. Nobody forced those teens to drink and drive and bad decisions have life-long consequences.

The "Gretna Strong" tag was started by students long before the details were released about the drinking and the speed of the vehicle. I don't fault the Sheriff for trying to get to the truth. The high school has over 1,000+ students and the population is growing because of its location between Omaha and Lincoln.

Whatever happens likely will effect the survivor for the rest of her life because her four close friends are dead. That's the cold, hard reality she must face.
I think the likely outcome will be a plea deal where she receives immunity but the person who supplied the alcohol to the four dead teens needs to be held accountable.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I understand this sentiment. I really do. But as a parent of a teenager who is very vigilant about what is happening when kids are at my home, it is frustrating to hear about parents who are more concerned about being their children's "best friend" than being a decent parent. There is a contingent of wealthy families in this area who think they are above the law and want to do anything to be the most popular parents on the block. It happens all the time around here.

Parents Of Students Cited In Millard MIP Bust Speak Out

In fact, these parents are so arrogant about their kids' right to drink alcohol consequence-free that they go running to the news media when the police try to enforce the law:

Stothert says mother of teen cited for MIP shouldn't complain to news media

It kind of undermines what the rest of us are trying to do as responsible parents. When my children became old enough to have friends over, I rearranged my home to accommodate this, removing all alcohol from the basement and turning it into a "rec room" for the kids. We are by no means rich, but we have a decent entertainment system and we know how to walk the fine line between being hospitable without being overbearing and trying to ingratiate ourselves into our kids' social circles. Thus, our home is one of the most popular hang-out spots in the neighborhood and we don't have to serve alcohol in order for our kids' friends to come over. It's not rocket science.

I understand that my son and his friends may go elsewhere to drink. Hell, I understand that it's even possible someone may be sneaking a flask into my basement. But at least I am not condoning it or worse yet, providing it. I have educated my kids about the dangers of drinking and driving and I have set ground rules against underage drinking in my home. I feel good about that. If my son went to someone else's house and was served alcohol, I'm sorry but I would not be OK with that.

ITA. No kid dared to bring alcohol here because they knew we would call their parents. We parents learned from experience that we needed to be kept in close contact about everything. We had to implement a rule where if one of our kids slept over at someone's house, we had to know the parents and communicate with the parents ahead of time. We learned that lesson when our youngest son was in the fourth grade. He pulled a stunt where he was spending the night with Jake and Alec told his parents he was spending the night at Jake's and so on. We didn't know Jake's parents. Five boys up to no good. The air went out of that balloon only after they vandalized a car next door to Jake's. Lesson learned.

JMO

 

[TristanP]

I like your post.
I too had parents that would never allow alcohol on the house when I was a kid, and my house was always the house everyone hung around.
That is except for those times we had parties, and then we'd drive to one of 3 party spots drink all night and then drive away. When and if the cops showed up, it was only because someone complained about the noise and they'd say we had to go. So, we'd get in our cars drunk, and take the party to another spot while the cruiser was parked watching us all leave.
And then one night, my classmate was killed in a car he was riding in, when it crashed leaving the party. Did that stop anyone? No.
Is that safer than parents letting kids drink at their house where they can keep an eye on them?
I'd say that most are divided on that answer, however one thing that we can all agree on is that just about everyone that has posted here has done the same as these kids did. Get alcohol by any means possible, drink it, and drive drunk.
Will that ever change? I doubt it.

Hypothetically speaking, how do you feel about parents who let drinking alcohol occur at their house but don’t stop 5 teenagers from leaving in a car that then crashes at 90 mph and becomes an incinerator for 4 of the occupants, while the only survivor is the only survivor simply because she also broke a law by not wearing a seatbelt and was thrown from the car?

That doesn’t really feel like “letting the kids drink here because at least we know they’re safe” behavior for parents who would do that.

 

[Rocky1]

What's wrong with scare tactics? Cops use scare tactics, including lying, with adults. Should they behave differently because of age and gender? As I said, I also would have hired an attorney for my child but I would also know she was going to be held accountable by the court whether she cooperated or not. Nobody forced those teens to drink and drive and bad decisions have life-long consequences.

The "Gretna Strong" tag was started by students long before the details were released about the drinking and the speed of the vehicle. I don't fault the Sheriff for trying to get to the truth. The high school has over 1,000+ students and the population is growing because of its location between Omaha and Lincoln.

Whatever happens likely will effect the survivor for the rest of her life because her four close friends are dead. That's the cold, hard reality she must face.
I think the likely outcome will be a plea deal where she receives immunity but the person who supplied the alcohol to the four dead teens needs to be held accountable.

JMO

I believe you stated in your previous post that you'd hire a lawyer because this teen can be prosecuted for obstruction of justice.

Snipped:
The surviving teen can be prosecuted for obstruction of justice so I don't blame her parents for getting her a lawyer. I would do the same thing if it were my daughter. Hopefully, other teens have learned from this tragedy. It has certainly been in the local news headlines daily.

Why bother hiring a lawyer if, in your words "I'd know she was going to be held accountable by the courts whether she cooperated or not ?"
The job of the Lawyer is to find any loophole possible so you are not held accountable by the courts. The first thing the lawyer is going to tell you to keep your mouth shut. Is that cooperating?

What's wrong with cops using scare tactics and lying?
In the eyes of the law, nothing, however, I think it's also not wrong for people to be educated as to when cops are lying and when they are not.
In this case, they are lying. There is no way that this teen, nor her mother can be prosecuted for obstruction of justice for not talking to the cops. The mother can not be prosecuted because she told her daughter not to talk.
On the other hand, if they talk to the cops, and lie about the details about what happened that night, trying to cover up something, then they can be charged with obstruction.

Should cops behave differently because of age and gender?
Gender, no.
Age, absolutely, and the supreme court thinks so too.

Gallegos v Colorado.
A juvenile cannot be compared to an adult “in full possession of his senses and knowledgeable of the consequences of his admissions.” Gallegos v. Colorado, 370 U.S. 49 (1962).

FindLaw's United States Supreme Court case and opinions.

 

[Rocky1]

Hypothetically speaking, how do you feel about parents who let drinking alcohol occur at their house but don’t stop 5 teenagers from leaving in a car that then crashes at 90 mph and becomes an incinerator for 4 of the occupants, while the only survivor is the only survivor simply because she also broke a law by not wearing a seatbelt and was thrown from the car?

That doesn’t really feel like “letting the kids drink here because at least we know they’re safe” behavior for parents who would do that.

I think it's unforgivable for any parent not to stop 5 teenagers from leaving in a car after they've been drinking alcohol.
But again, That's being hypothetical. We don't know what happened in this case.
Let me ask you the same question in a different way.
Being hypothetical, what do you think of parents who let drinking alcohol occur at their house, eliminating the chance that 5 teenagers will be riding around driving drunk because they never left the house?

 

[SugarQueen]

I will never be ok with underage age kids drinking at home. I will never be ok with over consumption at any age. Not in my house. If somehow someone got drunk at my house they are either staying the night, or getting driven home by someone sober.
DS’s graduation party last year was a dry party. A few elders asked why there was no wine to have with dinner. I simply told them I’m not having teens and alcohol.
The person who provided the alcohol needs to be charged. As adults it is our job to take care of, and protect kids the best we can until they outgrow the “ doing something stupid stage”. It is our job to teach them. If we look the other way that is teaching them the wrong thing.

 

[Rocky1]

I will never be ok with underage age kids drinking at home. I will never be ok with over consumption at any age. Not in my house. If somehow someone got drunk at my house they are either staying the night, or getting driven home by someone sober.
DS’s graduation party last year was a dry party. A few elders asked why there was no wine to have with dinner. I simply told them I’m not having teens and alcohol.
The person who provided the alcohol needs to be charged. As adults it is our job to take care of, and protect kids the best we can until they outgrow the “ doing something stupid stage”. It is our job to teach them. If we look the other way that is teaching them the wrong thing.

I don't agree with underage kids drinking at home either.
Let me ask you this.
Let's say for conversation sake that it was a kid in his stupid stage that took alcohol from his parents stash and gave it to these girls. Is it the adults job to take care and protect him/her then?

 

[Snick1946]

'Hypothetically speaking, how do you feel about parents who let drinking alcohol occur at their house but don’t stop 5 teenagers from leaving in a car that then crashes at 90 mph and becomes an incinerator for 4 of the occupants, while the only survivor is the only survivor simply because she also broke a law by not wearing a seatbelt and was thrown from the car?'

FWIW, that is my theory of what happened here. I've done a lot of reading between the lines of comments made here and on other discussion boards from locals. It's almost unfathomable to me that any parent would place their child and others in danger just to be popular but I worry that is what happened. In time, we'll see; I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Snick1946]

'Hypothetically speaking, how do you feel about parents who let drinking alcohol occur at their house but don’t stop 5 teenagers from leaving in a car that then crashes at 90 mph and becomes an incinerator for 4 of the occupants, while the only survivor is the only survivor simply because she also broke a law by not wearing a seatbelt and was thrown from the car?'

FWIW, that is my theory of what happened here. I've done a lot of reading between the lines of comments made here and on other discussion boards from locals. It's almost unfathomable to me that any parent would place their child and others in danger just to be popular but I worry that is what happened. In time, we'll see; I hope I'm wrong.

 

[CCmakes3]

I don't agree with underage kids drinking at home either.
Let me ask you this.
Let's say for conversation sake that it was a kid in his stupid stage that took alcohol from his parents stash and gave it to these girls. Is it the adults job to take care and protect him/her then?

I am glad you asked this question. I do NOT think an adult should be held responsible for a child (or someone else's child) stealing something from them. I have mixed feelings about what should happen to a child who does so. Perhaps they should be charged with a minor offense resulting in community service. In no way do I think a minor child should go to jail for something like this, especially if they stole from their own parents, and all of their friends were killed. This is JMO.

 

[SugarQueen]

I don't agree with underage kids drinking at home either.
Let me ask you this.
Let's say for conversation sake that it was a kid in his stupid stage that took alcohol from his parents stash and gave it to these girls. Is it the adults job to take care and protect him/her then?

If you are asking if a parent should protect a child from facing responsibility, NO. If I was in that position I would want my child to take responsibility. It would be a difficult time , but not a difficult choice. I am the adult, it is my job to teach responsibility to my child. If I protect them by allowing them not to speak up I am failing my child.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

It's almost unfathomable to me that any parent would place their child and others in danger just to be popular....

RSBM BBM

Yes, ITA. It’s that nifty “cool mom” syndrome that we now see time & time again.....

 

[SugarQueen]

I posed this scenario to my 18 yo.....

He takes alcohol fron my home
Gives alcohol to his underage friends
Friends drink, then get in a wreck resulting in injuries and/ or death.
I then find i it was him who provided the alcohol.

Should I protect him by hiding that fact? Should I not allow him to speak to LE? Should I keep quiet about it all.

His response was NO, I should not cover for him in any way. I should get him legal help BUT he would need to take responsibility for what he did. I should not try to keep him from talking to LE.

 

[TristanP]

I think it's unforgivable for any parent not to stop 5 teenagers from leaving in a car after they've been drinking alcohol.
But again, That's being hypothetical. We don't know what happened in this case.
Let me ask you the same question in a different way.
Being hypothetical, what do you think of parents who let drinking alcohol occur at their house, eliminating the chance that 5 teenagers will be riding around driving drunk because they never left the house?

Assuming the parents had not provided the alcohol, but had come to learn the teens had arrived at their home intoxicated or got into their alcohol without their knowledge, then I would, of course, be pleased that they stopped the children from leaving the home.

If they were the ones who provided the alcohol, however, in order to “know the kids were safe”, I wouldn’t agree with it at all. Sure, those kids might have been safe that one night, but encouraging/condoning alcohol consumption by teens is just not ok.

I’m a nurse who has spent many of the last 12 years working in Substance Abuse Treatment, Chemical Detox, Corrections, and Psych. Alllllll is those categories go hand in hand, like a little ring-around-the-rosy circle. I cannot even tell you how many people were first introduced to their drug of choice by their parent(s).

When you work with these people who have lost everything due to their addiction and know their addictions usually started in their teen years, it’s just not possible to accept that any adult is doing the “right thing” by allowing teens to drink at their houses and/or intentionally providing them alcohol.