NE - Eight killed, 4 injured in Westroads Mall shooting, Omaha, 5 Dec 2007

[Reannan]

AD/HD did NOT cause this. The gun he was carrying did NOT cause this. HE caused this. HE made a decision to commit an act of evil, and he will pay the consequences for eternity. I don't want to hear anything about his "issues". I was on the way home when I heard about this yesterday afternoon. I had gone out of town to bury my 51 year old nephew who wasn't even sick this time last year. In February of 2007, he had a painful lump on his lower jaw. For the past ten months, we have watched him go from a hard working husband and father to a bed-ridden invalid cancer patient. He never complained, and always tried to be positive. Even when he lost the ability to speak, he would give the thumbs up sign as people left the room.....right up until the day he died. Whatever "issues" , this jerk in Nebraska had, they did not compare to the issues my nephew had, nor to the issues the thousands of patients that I observe bravely, and honorably struggling with terminal illnesses. This guy was a self-centered, self-serving jerk.

OH, and as far as the issue about guns is concerned; as soon as they get the war on drugs under control, I will be happy to sit and talk about gun control. Drugs are illegal, and yet they are everywhere. If guns are illegal, and taken from the hands of honest citizens, we will surely be in a state of chaos.

 

[JanetElaine]

I agree, so many out there are just ticking time bombs. I worry about this a lot being a teacher of high risk teens. Some of them scare me and I'm not easily scared by people, however odd their behavior. The other day a kid (just turned 17) I knew several years ago who had dropped off the map came in and said his mom had taken off in a rv with a new guy weeks before and that his dad had died several months ago. He was homeless, not going to school and wanted to enroll. He was cold, skinny, coughing and pale. The poor kid probably just wanted to have somewhere to go, somewhere where he would belong. He said "Eve, do you remember me?" Our social worker reached the mom somehow (cell I guess) and she said, "Yup, he's on his own." We gave him breakfast, lunch, bought him mittens and a hat and unfortunately, after waiting all day, he was escorted away by the police to a boys ranch, something he did not expect. We had to call the police, by law, of course, and at least he's got shelter. Next he goes to court to made a ward of the state but no foster care is available for kids his age. What dismayed me was that the police said they had to cuff him. Procedure. You should have seen the look on his face. I felt terrible for him but I was also fearful when I saw his eyes. Our social worker saw it too, and somehow convinced the police to take him without the cuffs. We were all struck by the look of betrayal on his face. It scared me. Some of these kids have nothing to lose.

Eve

It is partly because I am not in the best state of mind today, but that story made me cry... I feel so sorry for that boy. Sounds like he was trying... I so hope he won't just give up now and quit caring.

 

[KatK]

I agree, so many out there are just ticking time bombs. I worry about this a lot being a teacher of high risk teens. Some of them scare me and I'm not easily scared by people, however odd their behavior. The other day a kid (just turned 17) I knew several years ago who had dropped off the map came in and said his mom had taken off in a rv with a new guy weeks before and that his dad had died several months ago. He was homeless, not going to school and wanted to enroll. He was cold, skinny, coughing and pale. The poor kid probably just wanted to have somewhere to go, somewhere where he would belong. He said "Eve, do you remember me?" Our social worker reached the mom somehow (cell I guess) and she said, "Yup, he's on his own." We gave him breakfast, lunch, bought him mittens and a hat and unfortunately, after waiting all day, he was escorted away by the police to a boys ranch, something he did not expect. We had to call the police, by law, of course, and at least he's got shelter. Next he goes to court to made a ward of the state but no foster care is available for kids his age. What dismayed me was that the police said they had to cuff him. Procedure. You should have seen the look on his face. I felt terrible for him but I was also fearful when I saw his eyes. Our social worker saw it too, and somehow convinced the police to take him without the cuffs. We were all struck by the look of betrayal on his face. It scared me. Some of these kids have nothing to lose.

Eve

Is there any way you can be a witness for him, an advocate? Can you see if you can be allowed to speak up so he can go to school and maybe find a job? Can you at least write him, and tell him that you had to report his mother, and that you will do what you can to help him be able to go to school? That breaks my heart!

 

[Taximom]

Why the cuffs? That's just unreasonable. They weren't called because he was committing a crime! He's a homeless minor, and demoralizing him even more is the last thing he needs. What is wrong with people?! (Regarding Eve's comment)

 

[JanetElaine]

Why the cuffs? That's just unreasonable. They weren't called because he was committing a crime! He's a homeless minor, and demoralizing him even more is the last thing he needs. What is wrong with people?! (Regarding Eve's comment)

Exactly... all that is going to accomplish is get him even more down in the dumps than he already is.

I like KatK's suggestions.

Just to lighten (myself) up a little, maybe we as WebSleuths could adopt this boy.

 

[Jules]

Eve, your post made me cry. That poor boy.

Wonder what happened with him that the mother just up and left him. So very sad. New boyfriend probably didn't want the baggage.

 

[heavenlydaze]

OK, I'm going to quote from the above link:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/06/mall.shooting/index.html

"Maruca Kovac described Hawkins as well-behaved, although "he had a lot of emotional problems, obviously."

She told the Omaha World-Herald that Hawkins showed her an assault rifle the night before the rampage, but because of his mild demeanor she wasn't alarmed."

The kid is disturbed, she KNOWS this. He SHOWS her a rifle.
I don't see anywhere that she called the police at this point, or was even alarmed. :doh:

I'm trying REAL hard to put myself in this woman's shoes, but I CAN'T. If some kid that I know has 'issues' showed me a gun, as soon as he's out of earshot, the first thing I'd do is call the police, not even necessarily because I think he'd 'go Colombine'...but because he might be a danger to himself or ANY other person.

Before the flames begin, understand, I'm in NO WAY trying to blame this horrible event on anyone other than the murderer (yes, murderer, even though right now the media is hesistant to call it that) but in this particular society, am I wrong to think that we should all be a little 'more-on-our-toes'? or would it backfire (no pun intended) and cause people to become paranoid over unexplained shadows?

Help me understand this.

 

[Jules]

The kid is disturbed, she KNOWS this. He SHOWS her a rifle.
I don't see anywhere that she called the police at this point, or was even alarmed. :doh:

I'm trying REAL hard to put myself in this woman's shoes, but I CAN'T. If some kid that I know has 'issues' showed me a gun, as soon as he's out of earshot, the first thing I'd do is call the police, not even necessarily because I think he'd 'go Colombine'...but because he might be a danger to himself or ANY other person.

Hi HD,

I had exactly the same reaction to those quotes. Very, very sad.

 

[Marthatex]

Here's another article with the details:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22131295/

He told he had written a suicide note.

Mtex says:

people who commit suicide usually give a warning. Please everyone, if someone tells you they're miserable and going to commit suicide, call the police. Or drive them to a mental hospital. The boy was screaming for help.

What good does a surrveilance video do after the fact. "It shows he had something strange stuffed under his sweatshirt?"

Where are the police; where is HOMELAND SECURITY? I hear is is disorganized and alot of our money is going to waste. We need to protect our OWN people IMO. Someone should be watching our malls.

I had forgotten we just had mall shooting in Salt Lake City - killing 5. Didn't hear that much about it.

Malls are going to be a target; for any kinds of extremists or violent people IMO. It was just a matter of time.

So I guess we'd better look with our eyes and report anything strange. No one is going to protect us except ourselves.

This tragedy SO MUCH could have been prevented IMO. Just like the situation in West Virginia. We cannot be lax!!!!

 

[KatK]

OK, I'm going to quote from the above link:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/06/mall.shooting/index.html

"Maruca Kovac described Hawkins as well-behaved, although "he had a lot of emotional problems, obviously."

She told the Omaha World-Herald that Hawkins showed her an assault rifle the night before the rampage, but because of his mild demeanor she wasn't alarmed."

The kid is disturbed, she KNOWS this. He SHOWS her a rifle.
I don't see anywhere that she called the police at this point, or was even alarmed. :doh:
<snip>

This article explains a bit better. She still dropped the ball, but not as far as the other article implies.

Maruca-Kovac told the Omaha World-Herald that the night before the shooting, Hawkins and her sons showed her an SKS semiautomatic Russian military rifle — the same type used in the shooting. She said she thought the gun belonged to a member of Hawkins' family, but didn't think much of it because the gun looked too old to work.

 

[Marthatex]

The Columbine parents knew about the guns also; I'm sure. They just looked the other way.

Oh, come on - "too old to work". Give me a break.

 

[Marthatex]

&#8220;He said, &#8216;It&#8217;s too late,&#8221;&#8217; and hung up, she told CNN. She then called Hawkins&#8217; mother.

In the note, which was turned over to authorities, Hawkins wrote that he was &#8220;sorry for everything&#8221; and would not be a burden on his family anymore.

&#8220;Now I&#8217;ll be famous,&#8221; he wrote.

sad, sad, sad......

as long as guns are out there, assault or not, there will be people like this that can get hold of them....there's no way to stop it, ban or no ban, imo....

But they can kill fewer at once with a pistol, say - and pistols are very hard to aim.

People have no time to run for cover. Even my husband who is fairly conservative says there was "no excuse" for letting the assault weapon ban expire. He shoots guns alot. Anyone who works in Emergency Rooms or as police know that "ordinary people" don't need semi-automatic or automatic weapons. Try to bring a shotgun or rifle in the mall; I don't think you could conceal it too well.

These guns are meant to kill alot of people really fast. They're meant for the military, police or swat teams, etc. They are not "toys" or "hobbies".

Other countries DON"T ALLOW THIS. We have the highest death rate from guns than any other civilized country.

The NRA Is a lobby that should not control our lives; and their research reports are usually lies and spin. They are WAY too powerful; no one is trying to take away your household protection or hunting rights by banning automatic weapons.

The police sure don't want to be meeting up with them when they stop a car. It's too bad that politics has prevailed over the safety of our citizens, and also the improvement of mental health care.

 

[lululove1996]

Did he have a myspace page??

 

[sleuthin4fun]

Did he have a myspace page??

I looked for his page there are no Robert Hawkins registerd in Omaha. There are pages and pages of Roberts,Robs, Bobs and Bobby's. I could not find him.

 

[southcitymom]

.....sad, sad, sad......

as long as guns are out there, assault or not, there will be people like this that can get hold of them....there's no way to stop it, ban or no ban, imo....

Hey close,

I agree with this statement 100%.

 

[Marthatex]

Hey close,

I agree with this statement 100&#37;.

Don't you think we have alot of room for improvement though - crack down on pawn shops, keep psychiatric records - computerize so gun shops can see etc.

Evidently that would have stopped Cho; Virginia suddenly filled up a "crack" in their system.

This boy had a record - where did he get the gun; I'm not sure. There can be parent education classes on locking up guns in a safe. A boy down the street from me- a friend visiting killed him because they got the parents' gun.

In Israel they have metal detectors and they check all the cars in the parking lot. They HAVE to; and so should we. Remember what happend in 2001; where is that "zeal" to protect ourselves? People just walk in our schools and shoot. It could be an Islamic terrorist or other terrorist with a bomb, next. Terrorism is spreading everywhere. We're concentrating alot on our airlines, but next time they will choose a DIFFERENT WAY. Trains, malls, a dirty bomb somewhere. We need cameras on the streets as Britain has IMO.

Again, we have the highest death rate from guns in the world. We have to start somewhere; it was better for awhile (the '90s). That's when assault weapons were banned. It DOES keep them from the good people AND the BAD. Fewer guns available; fewer shootings. I've read alot of research on this. Of course there are many factors affecting this question.

We are too blaize about our own "terrorists". How can someone walk in a store and shoot 6 salespeople down? They could run for cover or at least get shot in the arm or leg and have a chance for survival.

With automatic weapons there is little chance.

 

[Marthatex]

AD/HD did NOT cause this. The gun he was carrying did NOT cause this. HE caused this. HE made a decision to commit an act of evil, and he will pay the consequences for eternity. I don't want to hear anything about his "issues". I was on the way home when I heard about this yesterday afternoon. I had gone out of town to bury my 51 year old nephew who wasn't even sick this time last year. In February of 2007, he had a painful lump on his lower jaw. For the past ten months, we have watched him go from a hard working husband and father to a bed-ridden invalid cancer patient. He never complained, and always tried to be positive. Even when he lost the ability to speak, he would give the thumbs up sign as people left the room.....right up until the day he died. Whatever "issues" , this jerk in Nebraska had, they did not compare to the issues my nephew had, nor to the issues the thousands of patients that I observe bravely, and honorably struggling with terminal illnesses. This guy was a self-centered, self-serving jerk.

OH, and as far as the issue about guns is concerned; as soon as they get the war on drugs under control, I will be happy to sit and talk about gun control. Drugs are illegal, and yet they are everywhere. If guns are illegal, and taken from the hands of honest citizens, we will surely be in a state of chaos.

Yes, the war on drugs can certainly go hand in hand with keeping guns out of disturbed individuals and drugged individuals' hands.

But Cho wasn't on drugs, and I don't think this boy was either. He was SEVERELY DEPRESSED. He needed mental health care and antidepressants. ADHD medicine doesn't do the trick - being ADHD did NOT make him do this.

It was a psychiatric problem; he had a horrible childhood, no supervision, etc.

I disagree that he made a "conscious choice to do evil". They say he loved animals, etc. That isn't a sociopath or psychopath.

I He made a totally irrational decision to take his own life and take others with him. If someone had taken him to the mental hospital or he had even waited one day; he might not have done it. depressed people are totally "out of their right minds." This had probably been building for a long time; and 2 things set him off. Depressed people, especially males, commit violent and totally irrational acts.

This happens over and over. There is a huge misunderstanding of Psychiatry in this country IMO.

 

[amom]

okay, so I live in Council bluffs, right across the river. I haven't posted in a long time so many may not remember me but here goes. I have been following this quite closely with all the local news as has most of the community. We have all been deeply affected, even those who knew no one who was there. We started out believing only 2 had died. Then during the news conference everyone was watching the death toll suddenly jumped to nine and although I was by myself it was like the whole city fell silent. We had no idea it was that bad. I have friends that work in the two trauma hospitals (Creighton and UNMC) where people were transported to. One works in surgery and she said it was a "like a bloody hell" in there. She had never seen anything like it. There is a lot of little bits of information that we are getting here that are not being released to national news and I will try to post a few links.

www.wowt.com and www.ketv.com are the two main news stations with all the newest information. The national sites are not as accurate and not nearly as quick. These sites now have lists of all the victims and pictures of most of them. An interesting point that has been made is the amount of money that the state of Nebraska had previously spent on the shooter for care of his mental health and such more that $245,000. That is HUGE. I don't even know how to wrap my head around this. They spent sooo much money and yet this could still happen. What does that mean? I don't even know. My guess is the inadeqate transition from state care to the "real world" that some children get when they age out of the system (he was "discharged" or some other term in Aug of 06 I believe). Just one of the MANY aspects of this whole ordeal.

Another HUGE point that many people on the radio are talking about is the amount of coverage that the shooter has gotten. THIS IS WHAT HE WANTED!!!!!! WHY ARE WE GIVING IT TO HIM!! For godsakes - his picture is on the front page of CNN and he said he did this to "go out in style" and cause he wanted to be famous. I feel (and MANY in the community feel) the media has sold out our community by publicizing the shooter and his life, instead of focusing on everything else. Why cant it be left at a "19 year old male"???? I know it may not be realistic. But just think - if it was left at just that - and these people did not get publicity for THEMSELVES would we have all these shootings? These shootings arn't done because the person is just depressed. If they were they would shoot themselves. There is a huge selfish aspect of wanting to be famous. Ever since Columbine and all the publicity - these lonely kids know that this is a way to show that they are hurting. If they understood that their voice (their identity) was not going to be known, would some of them choose another route???

Thoughts??

 

[amom]

ummm.. i don't know how to reply to someone specifically. Sorry!!

- but this kid was doing drugs. He had been arrested for drug charges in the recent past and there are several interviews with friends of his saying they smoked pot (one person said as little as two weeks ago). I am sure toxicology tests will be done also.

 

[Toby]

AD/HD did NOT cause this. The gun he was carrying did NOT cause this. HE caused this. HE made a decision to commit an act of evil, and he will pay the consequences for eternity. I don't want to hear anything about his "issues". I was on the way home when I heard about this yesterday afternoon. I had gone out of town to bury my 51 year old nephew who wasn't even sick this time last year. In February of 2007, he had a painful lump on his lower jaw. For the past ten months, we have watched him go from a hard working husband and father to a bed-ridden invalid cancer patient. He never complained, and always tried to be positive. Even when he lost the ability to speak, he would give the thumbs up sign as people left the room.....right up until the day he died. Whatever "issues" , this jerk in Nebraska had, they did not compare to the issues my nephew had, nor to the issues the thousands of patients that I observe bravely, and honorably struggling with terminal illnesses. This guy was a self-centered, self-serving jerk.

OH, and as far as the issue about guns is concerned; as soon as they get the war on drugs under control, I will be happy to sit and talk about gun control. Drugs are illegal, and yet they are everywhere. If guns are illegal, and taken from the hands of honest citizens, we will surely be in a state of chaos.

My prayers are with you and your family Reannan. Excellent post.