NE - Omaha Double Murder #3 - *Arrest Made*

[waltzingmatilda]

Bump!

The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity answered...

"Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."

For some reason this quote reminded me of this case.....

wm

 

[Snick1946]

Bumping up in memory of Thomas and Shirlee.

It is understandable that interest has dropped off on this case, perhaps that is what those supposed to be investigating it want. I appreciate all of the posters in this thread and let us hope for some closure someday.

 

[Snick1946]

I may now recall a comment Claire Hunter made to the reporter which perhaps answered some of our questions. As I now recall she made reference to the knives being 'left behind' in the home. That would be a lock in my mind on the knives being brought in by the killer. Most of you are far better at searches than I. Maybe someone can locate the article? It was I believe an interview by reporter John Ferak with her early this year.
I recently have also been thinking this crime could be a part of a much bigger investigation. LE may know who the perp is and why but are constrained from acting by the FBI or other agency until a bigger investigation is complete.
I am very relunctant to let this thread go. I still have a gut feeling that it is important for the future of this case that something be kept out there. I at times wonder if the killer or killers have been following this thread. If so I want them to know some people still care.

 

[geojeffrey]

Your comments sound spot on!

The killers identity must be known. Investigators are digging, crossing t's and dotting i's before the arrests.

 

[Snick1946]

My Christmas greetings to all of you who have participated in this thread and who still are lurking. I know you're out there; I appreciate the 'thanks' I get for some of my posts. It's encouraging and helps me think that I am not keeping this up by myself.

Over the past three plus years since I began this journey, I have accumulated a lot of knowledge and heard many rumors and interesting facts about these murders. Much of it I have not posted; this is out of concern for the families, also out of respect for the people who have shared things with me that are not widely known. At some point prior to the fourth anniversary I plan to possibly throw out a few things and theories about this case, at least those that I feel can be shared. .

You are all very special people and care so much about people you have never met. My special heartfelt greetings to the Hunter and Sherman families who have endured so much, also to Lt. Kangier and the fine OPD detective staff who I believe are still working toward justice for Tom and Shirlee. Bless you all- Merry Christmas, pray for justice.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

I wish I had something of value to add to this thread but unfortunately do not. Just want to say thanks for always keeping us updated, Snick.

 

[KAE]

My Christmas greetings to all of you who have participated in this thread and who still are lurking. I know you're out there; I appreciate the 'thanks' I get for some of my posts. It's encouraging and helps me think that I am not keeping this up by myself.

Over the past three plus years since I began this journey, I have accumulated a lot of knowledge and heard many rumors and interesting facts about these murders. Much of it I have not posted; this is out of concern for the families, also out of respect for the people who have shared things with me that are not widely known. At some point prior to the fourth anniversary I plan to possibly throw out a few things and theories about this case, at least those that I feel can be shared. .

You are all very special people and care so much about people you have never met. My special heartfelt greetings to the Hunter and Sherman families who have endured so much, also to Lt. Kangier and the fine OPD detective staff who I believe are still working toward justice for Tom and Shirlee. Bless you all- Merry Christmas, pray for justice.

Hey Snick, I don't follow a lot of cases here at WS, but this is one that I often think about. I appreciate your work here (and the other regulars on this thread too)!
Hoping 2012 will bring some answers and closure to this case for both families.
Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Hi everybody! I wish you all peace, love and happiness this Christmas season and many blessings in 2012.

There are two families who will again have an empty chair at their table this holiday. Dear families of Tom and Shirlee, your loved ones have not been forgotten.

wm

 

[Snick1946]

Is anyone familiar with this:

http://www.vidocq.org/

I just read "The Murder Room" a book that focuses on this group of internationally known crime solvers. They will accept cases for review if they are at least two years old. Ther catch: referral must be by LE or a family member.

I seriously question if OPD will be willing to do this. I wonder if any of the family members would be? Just throwing this out FWIW.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Hi Snick, There was discussion on the Vidocq society several threads ago. It never really went anywhere. IIRC, there was discussion and some consensus that LE wouldn't allow it due to them turning down assistance from AMW. I may be mistaken on the details of the discussion, tho.

I wish Vidocq to be involved in this case as they have had success with past cases! JMHO.

Does Warren Buffet have a twitter acct? These horrific murders occured in his neighborhood and he IS an outspoken philanthropist. Perhaps he could help pull some strings, offer much needed funding for the investigation, etc. Just an idea but I don't twitter. Moo

wm

wm

 

[colette]

LE will probably say "it's not a cold case", and refuse any help.
I never could understand the refusal to work with AMW.

 

[Snick1946]

LE will probably say "it's not a cold case", and refuse any help.
I never could understand the refusal to work with AMW.

You're right, that is exactly what would happen.

The AMW thing becomes understandable if you believe that someone in higher authority on a local level is protecting someone or some institution. I think the detectives have tried their best to develop something; you can however only get so far when someone higher up doesn't want a case solved.

 

[Snick1946]

I really miss the Astrology forum as this is one of those cases that lends itself to fascinating analysis. With respect, I want to repost in this discussion a few comments made by one of the astrologers re the identity of possiblem perps in this case:


"The boy Ts. did NOT know this person, that is why he is called the traveling stranger! Important too to keep the hit man, an ag't., separate from the one who hired him. The hit man is the Sun in the House of Travelers and Strangers. He, the Sun, was last with Uranus, whose project this murder is. Then he decided on his appearance (the look, the disguise) for the occasion, Sun sextile Neptune and made the actual trip necessary to reach this neighborhood in Omaha, Sun sextile Neptune ruling the 9th House.

Whenever the same Sign is on both House 1 and House 2, it means the acting party is doing all he can to accelerate the future, in this case he was being efficient and trying to get done quickly. Now the actual manner of killing may have been part of his orders from Uranus, in order to send a message. Or, he may have had total control of how he killed the housekeeper and the boy. Look at the cusp of House 2 and of House 8. The nodes are there, riding the cusp, exact. Node ° = cusp ° fatalities, tragedy, catastrophe. (No news there but confirmation) Also, for confirmation, one looks to Mercury to ascertain what the event is about and here it is murder, pure and simple, H. 8. The project mgr. behind this, Uranus, is volcanic and overflowing with hatred and viciousness and blood lust. That was explained under the chart. And that is what we cannot comprehend. But knife murders? Confirmation again of the intense emotions behind this hideous plot. There are more individuals than two involved, also. Pisces is a dual Sign and home to both the Sun and Uranus. At least four conspirators committed these murders. The Moon confirms this, being also in dual Gemini.

He wasn't posing, the hit man, when he seemed to be scanning and scrutinizing houses for the correct one. It is not that he was given imperfect information but he had to be positive and the address had to match precisely. I'm sure you can see him with your mental retina~he is not a late teen but a full adult. The black case held the knives, of course. Since two men made the trip (Sun in Pisces in H. ), I wonder if the other waited for him and exactly where. By the chart, close. The hit man was in it for his payment, of course. Mars rules the Second House of House 9, the traveling stranger and it is Mars that has the opportunity provided by Saturn. For him, a job: Saturn is in House 6 for the House 9 killer. It is the Mars hour and matters advance with daring, deftness and speed under the red planet's influence. Jupiter day for killings at the wealthy professionals' place. "

My apologies if was incorrect to repost something from this closed board- I saw some things in rereading it that I had not seen before- the references to up to four indeividuals being involved. If so you have to wonder what the hell was going on there? I still have to wonder if the killer had a key to get into the house?

In less than two months we will be at the fourth anniversary of these killings. I wonder if the local news media will run anything at all?

 

[Ozzie]

Hey everyone. For the past couple of days I have been perusing these 3 threads about the Dundee murder and there was a ton of information to go through. Here is what I came up with, correct me if I get anything wrong. Imo, I am really torn as to whether or not this was a hired hit killing. Why? Because, a) Most hired hit men do not use knives, they use a firearm, and also use a silencer. If a silence is used it compresses the noise that a gun would make thus making it almost impossible for any neighbors to hear any gunshots, the sound would be very muffled and almost undetectable. A gun would be better to a hired hit man because it's less messy and very quick and alot easier to control as opposed to a knife. B) Both victims were stabbed in the neck and I remember from a previous post someone had mentioned the scene was very gruesome and Thomas was bloody. This does not seem 'professional', it seems personal. Almost anyone who uses a knife on their victims and leaves a scene gruesome to me suggests a personal attack, whether or not it was geared towards Thomas or Shirley, that is unknown. One thing that did stand out to me was the fact that both victims were stabbed in the neck? Were there any other stab wounds on the victims? To me that seems a bit odd that both victims suffered stab wounds to the neck and no where else. As for who was killed first? I would maybe say Shirley if she was attacked from behind and then Thomas was killed. I will probably post more later but my mind is spinning because there are so many ways you could take this case but it seems like every which way we go, it's like a dead end. Surely someone knows something more and I hope they come forward soon.

Like I said, this is all moo and if I messed up any of the facts, please correct me. There was a ton of information to go through. This case is very tragic and I hope the killer is brough to justice. It seems like the OPD either doesn't have enough information/evidence to go off of and they have exhausted their leads or they are afraid of uncovering something very big.

 

[Ozzie]

I also wanted to add another thing. Have investigators gone back to the neighborhood and shown them the picture of the Dr.? To mean that would be a nice start since several of the neighbors have given the same description about a olive skinned male in his 20s-30s wearing a dark suit with a light colored shirt underneath and carrying a briefcase or some time of over the shoulder bag, like a messenger bag? Along with this whole Dr. theory, I wonder if investigators have checked his ownership of what vehicles he owned while in the Omaha area or check his financial records to see if he rented a Honda CRV or some type of suv because wasn't it proven that the Dr.was living out of state and had moved at the time of the murders?

 

[Snick1946]

Hey everyone. For the past couple of days I have been perusing these 3 threads about the Dundee murder and there was a ton of information to go through. Here is what I came up with, correct me if I get anything wrong. Imo, I am really torn as to whether or not this was a hired hit killing. Why? Because, a) Most hired hit men do not use knives, they use a firearm, and also use a silencer. If a silence is used it compresses the noise that a gun would make thus making it almost impossible for any neighbors to hear any gunshots, the sound would be very muffled and almost undetectable. A gun would be better to a hired hit man because it's less messy and very quick and alot easier to control as opposed to a knife. B) Both victims were stabbed in the neck and I remember from a previous post someone had mentioned the scene was very gruesome and Thomas was bloody. This does not seem 'professional', it seems personal. Almost anyone who uses a knife on their victims and leaves a scene gruesome to me suggests a personal attack, whether or not it was geared towards Thomas or Shirley, that is unknown. One thing that did stand out to me was the fact that both victims were stabbed in the neck? Were there any other stab wounds on the victims? To me that seems a bit odd that both victims suffered stab wounds to the neck and no where else. As for who was killed first? I would maybe say Shirley if she was attacked from behind and then Thomas was killed. I will probably post more later but my mind is spinning because there are so many ways you could take this case but it seems like every which way we go, it's like a dead end. Surely someone knows something more and I hope they come forward soon.

Like I said, this is all moo and if I messed up any of the facts, please correct me. There was a ton of information to go through. This case is very tragic and I hope the killer is brough to justice. It seems like the OPD either doesn't have enough information/evidence to go off of and they have exhausted their leads or they are afraid of uncovering something very big.

Ozzie, we welcome you belatedly- this thread has become somewhat inactive of late and I do not check it as often as before. I was impressed that you took them time to read through all the prior posts and you must have seen myself and others go through a lot of changes in our assessment of what we believe happened here.

I agree that knife killings do not seem to indicate a professional hit. But.. just what if, this was a hit done not by a professional but a semi-professional? By that I mean perhaps a former military commando, for example- someone down on his luck who was willing to do a job that a lot of more professional hired killers would refuse. Killing a child is frowned upon by self respecting professional killers. Look at the personal ads in many tabloids or martial arts magazines and you will see ads placed by 'soldiers of fortune' offering to ply their skills. Such a person would have been far cheaper than a true professional, he may have felt more at home working with knives. If he had military training it'd account for his being able to slip in and back out so easily.

My second point- and I must tread carefully here. I think it's possible that this perp HAD A KEY. He was not let in; he unlocked a door and went in. His goal was Tom. Whomever arranged this, if Tom was the target, knew Tom would have been in the basement and unlikely to answer a doorbell. Shirlee being there was a surprise and he killed her first. Think a moment, if this is true. That would indicate one of two things, either the responsible party was someone close to Shirlee who had access to her keys, or someone close to the Hunters , maybe a collegue who'd been trusted with their key in the past while they were on vacation.

This is all MOO.

 

[Snick1946]

I also wanted to add another thing. Have investigators gone back to the neighborhood and shown them the picture of the Dr.? To mean that would be a nice start since several of the neighbors have given the same description about a olive skinned male in his 20s-30s wearing a dark suit with a light colored shirt underneath and carrying a briefcase or some time of over the shoulder bag, like a messenger bag? Along with this whole Dr. theory, I wonder if investigators have checked his ownership of what vehicles he owned while in the Omaha area or check his financial records to see if he rented a Honda CRV or some type of suv because wasn't it proven that the Dr.was living out of state and had moved at the time of the murders?

I think probably they did that, although OPD has been incredibly tight lipped about this case. I have lived here off and on over forty years and have never seen a murder investigation so secretive as this one. I would also in light of my theory, be interested if they questioned the Hunters as to just what arrangments they made when they went on vacation- which they did often- for people to come in and take care of their house, water plants, etc. Tom had a pet rabbit, was someone coming in to feed him while they were away?

One tidbit I picked up from someone close to one of the families; Shirlee was attacked from behind, while cleaning in a hallway. Unless she let someone in to see Tom, then went back to cleaning, this tells me she was surprised by someone who got in either via an unlocked door or who had other means of entry.

 

[Ozzie]

This case is truly baffling. If Shirlee was attacked from behind, then it would make sense that either a) someone came in from a different access point in the house, b) the suspect was let into the home from the front door by Shirlee and she returned to cleaning because the person was there for Thomas. A semi-professional hit man? That is definitely possible, however, sometimes those ads can be risky due to the fact that if it was a semi-professinal hit man and they were found via an ad in some magazine, they would be taking a risk by not knowing if this person was legit or a sting by law enforcement, all moo of course. It seems like there are several un-solved cases in Omaha/Omaha area and it is extremely upsetting that the OPD won't refuse outside help from AMW or even try having the case featured on 20/20, 48 hours mystery or Dateline? I know those shows typically only cover solved homicides and missing persons cases but I think that this case would benefit some exposure. I wonder if the Omaha World Herald will run a story this upcoming year on the anniversary or if any of the news channels will run a story? I'm sure the family hates re-living their nightmare in the news but perhaps the media covering this story again and maybe the OPD will provide more information this time around.

 

[thesaint]

I thought from early on a couple of facts were released by the police as established:

1) Shirley answered the door and let the unidentified man into the home.
I thought this came from from the neighbors statements.

2) Tom was killed first, in the kitchen. Shirley was found in a hallway, near cleaning supplies.

Knife vs a gun. in a close environment, a knife could be a better choice. Also, if the initial
wound is/was to the neck, and administered by someone with the requisite knowledge, it's possible a knife strike to the neck could make the victim unable to cry out for help.

 

[Ozzie]

I thought from early on a couple of facts were released by the police as established:

1) Shirley answered the door and let the unidentified man into the home.
I thought this came from from the neighbors statements.

2) Tom was killed first, in the kitchen. Shirley was found in a hallway, near cleaning supplies.

Knife vs a gun. in a close environment, a knife could be a better choice. Also, if the initial
wound is/was to the neck, and administered by someone with the requisite knowledge, it's possible a knife strike to the neck could make the victim unable to cry out for help.

I too thought Shirley answered the door and let the man inside per neighbors statement, so I am not for sure if this is now being debunked or what. You are right about the knife rendering the victim helpless and unable to be vocal if they were stabbed in the neck, but that is where my mind stops to this whole thing being someone 'professional'. I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around a professional hit man going into a home with knives and stabbing 2 people. Using a knife in a crime is very personal and risky. A gun would be less messy, quick, and for sure get the job done, whereas with a knife or knives, I would think you would have to struggle with the victim, risking a chance of them escaping. This is all moo. Then again, anything is possible, it could have been a professional hit. There is just not enough information to really understand what happened.