NE - Omaha Double Murder #3 - *Arrest Made*

[liz b.]

Very interesting and perplexing case. The actual murders reminded me of the Lindsay Buziak case. The use of a knife/knives to kill. It sounds like a professional hit,an assassination. I think the target was Shirlee. Tom was sadly in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If this has been covered,please bear with me : why did Shirlee have " a lot of money " in her purse ? I read that supposedely her home had been broken into, and she was convinced that the thieves would come back ? Whose money was it ? If it was Shirlee's, why didn't she put it in the bank ? Sounds like it was someone else's money ? Also, is it true that Shirlee's daughter had owed a drug dealer money ? I believe this crime is all about someone's money being messed with...

Like Lindsay Buziak's murder,this has never been solved...May never be...MOO

 

[thesaint]

If the rumored reports are at all true, why would Tom interrupt his game, voluntarily (apparently) come upstairs and go alone into the kitchen with this professional killer who was targeting Shirlee? And then Shirlee leaves them alone and continues on to do housecleaning?

 

[liz b.]

If the rumored reports are at all true, why would Tom interrupt his game, voluntarily (apparently) come upstairs and go alone into the kitchen with this professional killer who was targeting Shirlee? And then Shirlee leaves them alone and continues on to do housecleaning?

IDK, but perhaps the rumored reports are not so true after all ? Didn't a neighbor observe Shirlee letting this guy into the house ? And he has been quite professional by all accounts. Was any foreign blood/dna found at the scene(s) ? I mean the killers' blood and /or dna. He managed to kill two people without so much as nicking himself ? Likely killed Shirlee from behind to avoid being soaked with blood.MOO Knew what he was doing.MOO

I would speculate that the killer made Shirlee call Tom upstairs. MOO And I doubt she continued doing any housecleaning from the second that she opened the door. MOO

 

[thesaint]

Will have to dig back through the earlier threads, but I am recalling:

1) the initial reports were that Tom was killed first, in the kitchen/dining area, while seated at a table.
I believe there was speculation that the kitchen in this home was separated from the rest of the home by doors (probably a stand-alone dining room and a food preparation kitchen?)

2) that Shirlee was killed subsequent to Tom and found in a hallway, near cleaning supplies.

which, if true, leans toward Tom being the primary target and also Tom being somehow more familiar or at least having more to do with the killer than Shirlee--whom reports suggest let the killer in, called Tom up from playing video games in the basement to talk to the killer and then Shirlee resumed her domestic duties.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67963"]Omaha double murder - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2713518"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Omaha double murder[/ame]

 

[thesaint]

Altho I do recall a TV report with a Omaha PD detective (filmed outside the Hunter's home in Dundee) who was downplaying the accuracy of the composite sketch based on the neighbors' ID.

He didn't undercut the other pertinent "facts" (Shirlee let the guy in, etc) but he did imply that people should not be wedded to the composite sketch for IDing the perp. (which immed makes ya doubt the other reported "facts" of the case).

Which led to speculation on here, iirc, that perhaps the killer was wearing some sort of disguise. I guess making your hair and skin darker is easier done than going the other way?

Dunno.

Oh, also in that report, which came many months (years?) after the horrific event, the detective implied they were just then getting around to analyzing Tom's computer and other digital data. : (

 

[liz b.]

Will have to dig back through the earlier threads, but I am recalling:

1) the initial reports were that Tom was killed first, in the kitchen/dining area, while seated at a table.
I believe there was speculation that the kitchen in this home was separated from the rest of the home by doors (probably a stand-alone dining room and a food preparation kitchen?)

2) that Shirlee was killed subsequent to Tom and found in a hallway, near cleaning supplies.

which, if true, leans toward Tom being the primary target and also Tom being somehow more familiar or at least having more to do with the killer than Shirlee--whom reports suggest let the killer in, called Tom up from playing video games in the basement to talk to the killer and then Shirlee resumed her domestic duties.

Omaha double murder - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Omaha double murder

But it just doesn't pan out somehow ? Tom's mother was out of town. Shirlee was the adult in charge of the home. It just seems... strange. Assuming that neither she nor Tom knew the killer, I cannot see her letting some stranger in the house who told her he needed to see Tom ? It just doesn't make sense. Perhaps it happened differently ? Just a thought...

It sounds more like the kind of killings associated with drugs.

 

[thesaint]

I'm always willing to buy into any angle re: drugs related to a killing.

Here's something else that I've not seen widely reported but has been discussed in earlier posts/threads on this forum:

Tom has an older brother (like considerably older) who it seems was likely also living at the Dundee home with Tom and their parents at that time. Might not have been home that day/week, but his address of record was, rumoredly, the same as Tom's and their parents at the time?

I think there was some speculation that perhaps this older brother grew up in less pecunious circumstances than Tom (who I believe took trips to Europe with his parents and such) and was something of a Boo Radley disappointment to the Hunters.

There was some speculation that the killer could've dropped the brother's name as a means of entre and to get Tom alone? Not sure on that, would have to go back and re-read those posts. Or perhaps even the older brother told Tom to expect...anyhow..

The double-doctor income Hunters did not initially put up any reward. (Not sure if they have to date, Shirlee's cash-strapped family put up a substantial reward).

The Hunters did not ( initially? at all?) move out of the Dundee home where these horrific crimes happened.

Dunno at all. It's all speculation.

 

[liz b.]

I took the "olive skin color " to possibly mean that he was latino. MOO

Of the two victims, the adult is far more likely to have come into contact with people who might harm her. Just by the fact that she had probably more associations with adults of all types than the child would have.

Whose money was Shirlee holding ? If her home had been broken into just before she was killed, what,if anything,was taken ? And if her reason for carrying the money around with her was that she was convinced that her home would be broken into again, why didn't she put the money in a bank ? I am *speculating* that it wasn't her money. How much money did her daughter owe to drug dealers ? Just by association through her daughter Shirlee could have been in danger.MOO

 

[Ozzie]

@Liz b., if my memory serves me correctly, I think that the money that was in Shirlee's purse was her own, so imo, if this was directed towards her and it involved drugs/drug debt, the suspect most likely would have taken the money and nothing was stolen from the home. Shirlee's families members have posted on here before stating that Shirlee was never involved either directly or indirectly with drugs. This case reminds me of the Murdock Nebraska murders. The 2 victims were Wayne and Sharmon Stock and were murdered at random by Jessica Reid and Gregory Fester. Their house was in a very rural area of N.E and not by any major highways or interstate but somehow Jessica Reid and Gregory Fester found their house and killed them. The point I am trying to make is, L.E tried to profile the killer(s) in the Murdock NE case as 'personal' because their house was in a rural area and nothing was stolen. Same thing goes for Thomas and Shirlee, nothing was stolen and knives were used so I think LE jumped to the conclusion that the murders were 'personel'. I'm not really for sure if I am suggesting that Thomas and Shirlee could have been murdered at random but anything is possible and sometimes things appear to be as they really are. Dundee is a suburban area and appears to be a bit confusing to figure out so that is why I don't think it could have been random but anything is possible. All moo.

 

[liz b.]

@Liz b., if my memory serves me correctly, I think that the money that was in Shirlee's purse was her own, so imo, if this was directed towards her and it involved drugs/drug debt, the suspect most likely would have taken the money and nothing was stolen from the home. Shirlee's families members have posted on here before stating that Shirlee was never involved either directly or indirectly with drugs. This case reminds me of the Murdock Nebraska murders. The 2 victims were Wayne and Sharmon Stock and were murdered at random by Jessica Reid and Gregory Fester. Their house was in a very rural area of N.E and not by any major highways or interstate but somehow Jessica Reid and Gregory Fester found their house and killed them. The point I am trying to make is, L.E tried to profile the killer(s) in the Murdock NE case as 'personal' because their house was in a rural area and nothing was stolen. Same thing goes for Thomas and Shirlee, nothing was stolen and knives were used so I think LE jumped to the conclusion that the murders were 'personel'. I'm not really for sure if I am suggesting that Thomas and Shirlee could have been murdered at random but anything is possible and sometimes things appear to be as they really are. Dundee is a suburban area and appears to be a bit confusing to figure out so that is why I don't think it could have been random but anything is possible. All moo.

I read that some neighbors saw him stop a couple of times,and check the house numbers on the street, before he reached the house. Doubt if it was random...MOO

Also, based on the relative speed of this crime,it seems more like this killer had a job to do.He did it and left quickly.It was very professional . IMO a serial killer would have wanted to spend more time with his victims,both before and after killing them. That is usually how they get their gratification ? MOO

Could it be that Shirlee's family either was unaware of any drug involvement,or simply decided not to discuss it ? Because carryig a large amount of money around, instead of putting it in the bank for safety, sounds strange MOO When drug dealers are owed money, they will react very violently to protect their reputations on the street. Retreiving the money itself may have become irrelevant at that point. MOO

 

[thesaint]

I understand drug gangs beating down other gangs intruding on their turf and maybe giving a thumping to a customer with a large debt--but killing a grandmother?

 

[Snick1946]

I read that some neighbors saw him stop a couple of times,and check the house numbers on the street, before he reached the house. Doubt if it was random...MOO

Also, based on the relative speed of this crime,it seems more like this killer had a job to do.He did it and left quickly.It was very professional . IMO a serial killer would have wanted to spend more time with his victims,both before and after killing them. That is usually how they get their gratification ? MOO

Could it be that Shirlee's family either was unaware of any drug involvement,or simply decided not to discuss it ? Because carryig a large amount of money around, instead of putting it in the bank for safety, sounds strange MOO When drug dealers are owed money, they will react very violently to protect their reputations on the street. Retreiving the money itself may have become irrelevant at that point. MOO

FWIW, my brother lin law is what you could call a prominent attorney in Omaha with ties to the county attorney's office. Some months after, we were at a family gathering and the conversation turned to these killings, they took place not far from where my mother in law lived so there was naturally some concern about a serial killer runnnig around.

He said he'd been told that this was drug related. Shirlee was the target, she had several hundred dollars in cash in her purse. He wasn't clear as to what exactly had been going on, but did say someone in her family had a large drug debt and there was some idea that she had met this guy in an attempt to negotiate a payoff to clear it.

My gut instinct tells me that this is not what happened. I have always thought Tom was the target. I also believe the killer was hired by someone enraged at the Hunter family and that in turn was due to something in their past or something someone had done to tick off someone. I doubt robbery as a motive, there was an expensive camera and equipment lying on a table in the living room that was untouched and the money was left in the purse.

 

[liz b.]

FWIW, my brother lin law is what you could call a prominent attorney in Omaha with ties to the county attorney's office. Some months after, we were at a family gathering and the conversation turned to these killings, they took place not far from where my mother in law lived so there was naturally some concern about a serial killer runnnig around.

He said he'd been told that this was drug related. Shirlee was the target, she had several hundred dollars in cash in her purse. He wasn't clear as to what exactly had been going on, but did say someone in her family had a large drug debt and there was some idea that she had met this guy in an attempt to negotiate a payoff to clear it.

My gut instinct tells me that this is not what happened. I have always thought Tom was the target. I also believe the killer was hired by someone enraged at the Hunter family and that in turn was due to something in their past or something someone had done to tick off someone. I doubt robbery as a motive, there was an expensive camera and equipment lying on a table in the living room that was untouched and the money was left in the purse.

Snick1946,
I have been reading, and saw your ideas... I feel it was a drug related killing. The killer came to the house to kill Shirlee ; he had no intention of negotiating anything at that point. MOO It is possible that someone(s) thought that Shirlee was an informant. MOO

Was a police sketch of the man who was seen entering the house ever shown to the public ? If so, how long after the murders was it shown ? TIA...

 

[fran]

I think many will believe the boy was the target because it's hard to comprehend that even those that live in large, impressive homes can be victims of such a brutal crime. Plus, it makes better copy than 'drug related.'

Sorry, it's been a long time since I read about this tragic crime. The story about Shirlee being the target, rings some truth, IMHO. I can't recall, did they take the money in her purse?

IF the motive was in fact drugs and $$ and or murder, would explain why nothing from the home was taken. LE solves crimes all the time by finding the 'fence,' from the proceeds of a crime. Cash doesn't link back to anyone, unless it's bait from LE and the serial #'s have been noted and, or a bank heist where there's a die pack.

The poor child was most likely collateral damage.

IF it was for 'drugs,' wonder why LE hasn't been able to solve the case? Seems it should be pretty straight forward. That is unless, the person in her family alleged to have a drug problem, cares more about themselves than who murdered these two victims and justice.

JMHO
fran

 

[Snick1946]

Snick1946,
I have been reading, and saw your ideas... I feel it was a drug related killing. The killer came to the house to kill Shirlee ; he had no intention of negotiating anything at that point. MOO It is possible that someone(s) thought that Shirlee was an informant. MOO

Was a police sketch of the man who was seen entering the house ever shown to the public ? If so, how long after the murders was it shown ? TIA...

In all this time, it never once occured to me that she could have been an informant. Let's assume she did have a family member in deep debt to dealers and was told by police to arrange a meet with them to offer money, maybe she was even wearing a wire? Perhaps she was offered a free pass for her loved one if she helped them. They guy calls her cell and she tells him the address to stop by for the money. Sadly she doesn't know she's been fingered as a snitch. Tom was collateral, perhaps came upstairs upon hearing the ruckus.

This would account for the strange way OPD has handled this from the start, this was a sting that went terribly wrong. No wonder they wouldn't want AMW involved. The story I heard was that the money in her purse was rent collected earlier in the day from a renter. I thought that was unlikely at the time and still do.

 

[Snick1946]

WOWT in Omaha is running a promo this evening alerting viewers to a news story on this case that is to be run on their 10PM newscast. It looks like there is to be an interview with the lead detective. I will post any links to this from their website. I doubt there has been any break in the case but we will know soon..

 

[Snick1946]

WOWT aired a feature on this story on their 10PM newscast. It featured an interview with two of Shirlee's brothers, both expressing frustration. Here are what I felt were the most important points:

Lt Kagner was interviewed. I don't want to try to second guess him but I had the feeling he is onto something. He carefully avoided answers about whether the identity of the killer was known. He did say (thank God) that OPD will be contacting AMW and other crime shows to request publicity for the case. The Hunter family declined to be interviewed, saying they had the utmost confidence in OPD's handling.

I hope this is posted on their website tommorrow and will provide a link if it is. Lt Kagner made one comment I felt was odd, I will need to see the interview again but I thought he said something about them following some new path and that it had something to do with something from Tom's room. Not clear if he meant some possession from his bedroom or his school room. He said he has 'no doubt' the crime will be solved. He was asked if they have a good idea of what happened and he said he'd rather not say.

One detail I had not heard before- the reporter said that Tom 'bled to death' in the dining room. I had always envisioned his being killed immediately. If so that puts a slightly new light on what may have happened. Will update tommorrow as needed..

 

[Snick1946]

http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/Cold_Case_Update_Dundee_Murders_138984264.html?ref=264

I submitted a comment mentioning our thread, hopefuly they will post it.

 

[colette]

They posted it snick. This actually makes me hopeful that the case might get solved.

 

[Snick1946]

They posted it snick. This actually makes me hopeful that the case might get solved.

I want to be careful about getting hopes up, this has been such a long thing. I did however get the feeling from watching the lead detective that something is going on. I can think of many explanations for what they may have come across in Tom's possessions that gave this a new life, but don't think I should speculate. I also found the footage taken the day of the crime interesting. The fact they released this says something, not sure what.