Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #5

[pleasestandby]

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-in-Sign-out-Log-2005Nov05-at-Car-Crusher.pdf

Here is the log for November 5th.

Look at Kratz on there too....

I'm not making this up. I see on page 2:

Kratz arrived 7:16
Fatzo's Sub Shop arrived 7:30

:laughing:

 

[TheDuchess]

KZ is at it early on a Monday morning...

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 3m3 minutes ago
Police reports: Only SA a suspect despite BIG RED FLAGS on others. Must have to do w/BIG GREEN DOLLARS.

View attachment 88768


it's obvious???? Martinez? it's the only non-family member mentioned in court documents.


ETA: after I hit send.... she deleted and tweeted this...
Police reports: Only SA suspect but BIG RED FLAGS on others. Must have to do w/BIG GREEN DOLLARS. #MakingAMurderer
lol she took out the word despite

Zipperer or Martinez - Zipperer could be a good one, but Martinez is an actual would-be axe murderer so...

 

[TheDuchess]

KZ is at it early on a Monday morning...

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 3m3 minutes ago
Police reports: Only SA a suspect despite BIG RED FLAGS on others. Must have to do w/BIG GREEN DOLLARS.

View attachment 88768


it's obvious???? Martinez? it's the only non-family member mentioned in court documents.


ETA: after I hit send.... she deleted and tweeted this...
Police reports: Only SA suspect but BIG RED FLAGS on others. Must have to do w/BIG GREEN DOLLARS. #MakingAMurderer
lol she took out the word despite

Hmmm...why would she change despite to but?

 

[Madeleine74]

And none of the witnesses and other potential suspects could get their stories straight about what happened that day.

That tells me that no one was trying to coordinate statements or activities with anyone else. People just said what they remembered as they remembered it. That's exactly what is supposed to happen; no one is supposed to try and coordinate with anyone else.

I don't know of any case where everyone's statements and timelines matched up, all the ones I've followed have contained some discrepancies.

 

[Madeleine74]

Not to mention that Lenk's testimony about when he was at the TH auto crime scene didn't line up with the log.

This would be the first time in the history of law enforcement where one law enforcement agency was ordered to keep an eye on another law enforcement agency in an investigation because of conflict of interest, mistrust, etc.

They knew full well that the other agency was flat out corrupt based on SA being framed the first time.

It's unheard of in the annals of crime investigations for one LE agency to babysit another.

That's a strong assertion, anything other than opinion to back that up?

It's not unusual for more than one jurisdiction to be involved in a large case. One jurisdiction has to take the lead. In this particular case, Calumet took the lead by request. That doesn't mean the other county is forbidden to be there or help, it means Calumet takes the lead, assigns resources, tells various resources what is needed from them, where to assist, etc.

I haven't seen anything yet in which Lenk and Colburn were barred from working this case in any capacity, but if it exists I'd sure like to see it posted.

And, since the allegation is that Manitowoc County is "flat out corrupt," what other cases are folks trying to get overturned from there? All the criminal cases?

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Zipperer or Martinez - Zipperer could be a good one, but Martinez is an actual would-be axe murderer so...

Any Sleuthers have the crime statistics for Manitowoc County by year? I'd like to know how many reported murders happen per year in the 00s. And what are the chances that two killer/would be killers are in that close proximity to each other at the same time the crimes are committed. I mean that many violent criminals congregate at this one junk yard?

 

[pittie_mcclure]

Any Sleuthers have the crime statistics for Manitowoc County by year? I'd like to know how many reported murders happen per year in the 00s. And what are the chances that two killer/would be killers are in that close proximity to each other at the same time the crimes are committed. I mean that many violent criminals congregate at this one junk yard?

Looks like in a 7 year period there were two murders (00-07). There is a relatively low crime rate in the area, based on population. In 2006 there was an apparent spike in assaults... sexual assaults nearly doubled. Manitowoc County seems to have a sexual assault problem. I'm trying to see if I can't a breakdown per year, even what area of the county.

Meanwhile, this is an interesting article that includes source links & info, that discusses crime in the area, etc..

http://www.bustle.com/articles/1354...ing-a-murderer-location-has-interesting-stats

 

[Madeleine74]

Who else (besides Avery) has been railroaded/framed in that county?

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Looks like in a 7 year period there were two murders (00-07). There is a relatively low crime rate in the area, based on population. In 2006 there was an apparent spike in assaults... sexual assaults nearly doubled. Manitowoc County seems to have a sexual assault problem. I'm trying to see if I can't a breakdown per year, even what area of the county.

Meanwhile, this is an interesting article that includes source links & info, that discusses crime in the area, etc..

http://www.bustle.com/articles/1354...ing-a-murderer-location-has-interesting-stats

So here's my point, there is maybe 1 murder every few years in this county. And in the span of 1 week there was a murder and attempted (intended) murder done roughly in the same area by two people who new each other, SA and Martinez. And this Martinez claims that he will plead guilty to TH's murder if charged because he's going away for life anyway. And the police didn't look into this??? that both violent crimes could have been done by the same man.

 

[trigger]

WPIX has SA twin sons on Crime Watch Daily right now, EST

It repeats tomorrow at 2am

 

[SgtScraps]

So here's my point, there is maybe 1 murder every few years in this county. And in the span of 1 week there was a murder and attempted (intended) murder done roughly in the same area by two people who new each other, SA and Martinez. And this Martinez claims that he will plead guilty to TH's murder if charged because he's going away for life anyway. And the police didn't look into this??? that both violent crimes could have been done by the same man.

if im reading this right, it looks like his 35 year (37.5year?) sentence was vacated on a technicality? have a read

https://wcca.wicourts.gov/courtReco...et=50&linkOnlyToForm=false&sortDirection=DESC

 

[pittie_mcclure]

So here's my point, there is maybe 1 murder every few years in this county. And in the span of 1 week there was a murder and attempted (intended) murder done roughly in the same area by two people who new each other, SA and Martinez. And this Martinez claims that he will plead guilty to TH's murder if charged because he's going away for life anyway. And the police didn't look into this??? that both violent crimes could have been done by the same man.

Yes I am totally following you. He not only struck his victim with an ax repeatedly in the head, he injured a dog with the ax and attempted to injure a child, as well. So we are taking about VIOLENT. This was the same day TH's car was found and Martinez was allegedly on scene when the vehicle was recovered. The attack seems like an interesting coincidence, doesn't it? Not to mention Martinez's long criminal record.

Even if sexual assaults spiked after SA was arrested.. that alone peaks my interest (a quiet community suddenly sees a spike in crime?) but when you throw Martinez in there and see it wasn't followed up on.. I'm still trying to articulate the implications here. I'm having trouble but that is nothing new!

 

[missy1974]

Something else about Martinez, and I'm on my phone so can't find a link, but when he went to his ex's....he was going to leave her a note, but she came home......i wonder what that note was going to say. In light of the fact it was shortly after the rav4 was found and he was there and would have seen, or had a clue. Also....go back to pam sturms testimony, at some point a man was staring at them, she pushed her daughter behind a car because she was afraid.....who was that man? oh and....I remember reading testimony from an officer that was first on the scene, he testified that a few vehicles left the property before he could record who it was.

 

[Madeleine74]

Let's go with Martinez for the murder:

How was Martinez able to attack/kill TH on the Avery property without anyone seeing or hearing him? SA was home and around all day. Different Avery brothers/nephews home at different times. And then how did Martinez get TH's remains into SA's burn pit, with no alert from Bear, get TH's items into SA's burn barrel(s), get TH DNA onto a 22 caliber bullet fired from SA's rifle, and into SA's garage, move TH's car without SA noticing, park it on Avery property, remove TH's license plate, put it into the station wagon parked somewhat close to the main buildings/SA's Trailer, and then get TH's key into SA's bedroom in his trailer?

- OR -

Is the thought that Martinez was able to stop TH somewhere, not on Avery property, kill her, burn her remains, then get LE or someone to help him plant the evidence on the Avery's property? Maybe he enlisted the help of George Z and Ryan H for good measure?

 

[angelainwi]

Zipperer or Martinez - Zipperer could be a good one, but Martinez is an actual would-be axe murderer so...

I think she is on to the ex-boyfriend

 

[MysticJynx]

I think she is on to the ex-boyfriend

That is who I think is TH's murderer, Her Close FRIEND and EX. Who lead them right to SA's door the night she was reported missing. JMO

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Let's go with Martinez for the murder:

How was Martinez able to attack/kill TH on the Avery property without anyone seeing or hearing him? SA was home and around all day. Different Avery brothers/nephews home at different times. And then how did Martinez get TH's remains into SA's burn pit, with no alert from Bear, get TH's items into SA's burn barrel(s), get TH DNA onto a 22 caliber bullet fired from SA's rifle, and into SA's garage, move TH's car without SA noticing, park it on Avery property, remove TH's license plate, put it into the station wagon parked somewhat close to the main buildings/SA's Trailer, and then get TH's key into SA's bedroom in his trailer?

- OR -

Is the thought that Martinez was able to stop TH somewhere, not on Avery property, kill her, burn her remains, then get LE or someone to help him plant the evidence on the Avery's property? Maybe he enlisted the help of George Z and Ryan H for good measure?

All scenarios are difficult to think through logically, even the SA scenario, when police framing and evidence planting comes into play. The thought that she was out there 15 times for a photo shoot can provide ample enough time for a criminal to become obsessed with her. Then find a time when she was an easy target. From accounts he was a total regular. Out there a few times a week.
If he did it, we don't know for sure why he would target her. She resembles the girlfriend he tried to kill? All I know is that TH car was found on the 5th while he was a customer on the property and he targeted and attacked his girlfriend with an axe that afternoon. As for Bear... maybe he and the dog were friends?

 

[MysticJynx]

All scenarios are difficult to think through logically, even the SA scenario, when police framing and evidence planting comes into play. The thought that she was out there 15 times for a photo shoot can provide ample enough time for a criminal to become obsessed with her. Then find a time when she was an easy target. From accounts he was a total regular. Out there a few times a week.
If he did it, we don't know for sure why he would target her. She resembles the girlfriend he tried to kill? All I know is that TH car was found on the 5th while he was a customer on the property and he targeted and attacked his girlfriend with an axe that afternoon. As for Bear... maybe he and the dog were friends?

Maybe he threw Bear a nice big juicy steak to keep him occupied? lol

 

[Justiceseeker35]

if im reading this right, it looks like his 35 year (37.5year?) sentence was vacated on a technicality? have a read

https://wcca.wicourts.gov/courtReco...et=50&linkOnlyToForm=false&sortDirection=DESC

yeah it looks that way that he's not in custody anymore. Good ole Len went to bat for this one. Too bad there was no sympathy for BD.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

This was the same day TH's car was found and Martinez was allegedly on scene when the vehicle was recovered. The attack seems like an interesting coincidence, doesn't it? Not to mention Martinez's long criminal record.

Even if sexual assaults spiked after SA was arrested.. that alone peaks my interest (a quiet community suddenly sees a spike in crime?) but when you throw Martinez in there and see it wasn't followed up on.. I'm still trying to articulate the implications here. I'm having trouble but that is nothing new!

He wasn't alleged to have been there--Pam Strum and her daughter Nicole saw a man there that made them nervous--they never identified that man as Martinez. People talking about the case have alleged that--as well as a lot of other things as well..think tin foil hat. We have to make sure if it is our opinion that it is stated that is our opinion--otherwise we need to back it up with a link or a fact.

He has a few incidents on his record--nothing to the extend of what he did on 11/05/05..so I wouldn't necessarily say he has a long criminal history. He's had about the same amount of run-in's that SA has....

Here is the link to look him up....

https://wcca.wicourts.gov/index.xsl;jsessionid=47561DCFA54B155E952E9C9FE6D39C58.render6

By the way Martinez is a common name so make sure you are looking at the one born in '63.