Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery

[dexter75]

Where did you read that? I'm just curious as I hadn't heard that yet

I've finished the series, and then I went to read the thread about it here. Didn't read the whole thing, but there were definitely things left out of the documentary like the fact that he purchased restraints just before the murder and he scheduled the appointment with Teresa using another name. (And that she had previously expressed discomfort going to the Avery residence.)

Most problematic for me with regard to whether or not these two committed this crime is the lack of Teresa's DNA anywhere on the property or even on her own car key. These two don't seem smart enough to have cleaned up so well as to leave no trace evidence.

 

[MaxManning]

Does everyone agree that there is no way she had her "throat slit" and/or was stabbed on that mattress?

Yep, I agree.

My theory on this has to do with Brendan doing exactly what it seems he was doing, trying to figure out what he had to say to get out of that interrogation room.

They asked specifically about her head. He mentioned slitting the throat, but also cutting her hair first. I mean, the kid was obviously just guessing as to what they wanted to hear. I personally don't believe she was killed in the bedroom.

If she was indeed killed there, I do buy the idea that she would have possibly been killed in the garage. I don't even know that I believe she was ever stabbed. There is no physical evidence of that, only gunshots to the head. If the bullet with halbach dna wasn't planted, then that would most definitely be the place she was likely killed.

I do call BS on the bedroom throat slashing.

 

[MaxManning]

At first I thought the ex. & roommate. Now I'm thinking Chuck Avery. And I'm thinking he may or may not have acted alone. I also think he sold his innocent STEVE out to the cops, meaning Chuck helped move things along so that they would be found. IF Chuck or a family member didn't do it, they sure the hell have zero faith in Steve.
I believe Brendan and Steve are innocent.
Erased phone messages, no evidence in that trailer. I could go on and on.
Did you see how SMALL that trailer was?
They SLIT her throat? Shot her? Where? The mattress that's still on the bed? Where is the blood splatter?
Such a mess.

In terms of the throat slit, I don't think that happened.

But shooting someone in a garage, I don't know personally if that can be done with minimal splatter or not. We are making alot of assumptions about how that would happen. For example. Say a pillow was put over her head and the shot was fired through the pillow into her head ? Where is the blood spatter ? (I said pillow, but it could have been a pile of clothes or anything of that nature.)

See my point ? I don't think it takes a great deal of sophistication to pull that off. would you agree ?

So I get why people go all cuckoo for cocoa puffs talking about "where is the blood splatter" and "how could they possibly clean all that up ??!?! " I get it. But take a step back and consider what I just said, and blood spatter means nothing and you likely have a pool of blood on the floor. - get the bleach and clean that spot or whatever.

Am I wrong ? or is this plausible ?

 

[MaxManning]

I think people have to keep in mind that much of the police narrative is based on what Brendan said, which was basically their narrative that they fed him!

How many shots were fired, slitting throat etc. Is likely all out of brendan's guessing. Not something we should trust as real.

None of what I said about how there could have been no blood splatter is making the assumption that brendan was even there. My only reason to believe the murder occurred in the garage *if avery did it* - is via Barb Janda saying that brendan told her he was helping steve clean the garage floor and that was why he had bleach on his pants.

Everything I have said is obviously theorizing, but just think the blood splatter/how did they clean it all up crowd need to calm down and entertain the idea that it's not so crazy to think it could happen the way i suggested. Bleach indeed can remove DNA from a surface. So if it's in a very isolated area as described in my scenario, certainly it's possible to do it.

 

[angelainwi]

I want to see the evidence and read the court transcripts. I hope they release that to the public. So many questions!

 

[dexter75]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-da-ken-kratzs-law-license-suspended-in-sexting-scandal/

Looks like Kratz eventually had no choice and had to play for the other team.
Never trusted any of those officials, or him.

 

[MaxManning]

I want to see the evidence and read the court transcripts. I hope they release that to the public. So many questions!

Good luck in finding them. I can't find anything.

 

[angelainwi]

I betcha Mama and Papa Avery would be willing to send Webseluths a copy of the court transcripts.....looks like they had many copies printed out....

 

[dexter75]

I too just find it hard to believe those boys had the smarts to pull this off.

Motive? Motive is HUGE, this man was looking forward to a NEW life with a new FIANCE. But WAIT, let me KILL someone to get back at LE DAYS before we settle in court.
Theresa saying she was uncomfortable is totally understandable under the circumstances. ( he being in a towel ) Maybe HE thought HE was HOT, who knows? I would feel the same way if I were her. Perhaps he used his sisters name because he thought he had a chance of getting her out there and getting a date or something? He wouldn't be the FIRST dorky guy to think it was COOL/OK to get her to "bite" this way. ( NO DISRESPECT, but y'all get what I mean? ) Losers in my town do dumb crap like this A LOT.
EVIDENCE? Planted or otherwise?
Lack of evidence?
Had those cops not took poor Brendan out of school. We would have never heard ten versions of " we killed her " sad.

 

[Brightbird]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-da-ken-kratzs-law-license-suspended-in-sexting-scandal/

Looks like Kratz eventually had no choice and had to play for the other team.
Never trusted any of those officials, or him.

Kratz gave me the heeby jeebies in the doc. I thought maybe I was being very judgemental about his soft insincere voice and careful mannerisms, or that he was being portrayed badly for the film. Then I found out the sexting scandal and was like, oh, the guy really is a slimy sleaze bag. Sometimes you can just pick 'em. Did you read the bit where he asked a woman if she could act like his gf at an autopsy? Eeew.

 

[MaxManning]

I too just find it hard to believe those boys had the smarts to pull this off.

Motive? Motive is HUGE, this man was looking forward to a NEW life with a new FIANCE. But WAIT, let me KILL someone to get back at LE DAYS before we settle in court.
Theresa saying she was uncomfortable is totally understandable under the circumstances. ( he being in a towel ) Maybe HE thought HE was HOT, who knows? I would feel the same way if I were her. Perhaps he used his sisters name because he thought he had a chance of getting her out there and getting a date or something? He wouldn't be the FIRST dorky guy to think it was COOL/OK to get her to "bite" this way. ( NO DISRESPECT, but y'all get what I mean? ) Losers in my town do dumb crap like this A LOT.
EVIDENCE? Planted or otherwise?
Lack of evidence?
Had those cops not took poor Brendan out of school. We would have never heard ten versions of " we killed her " sad.

He used his sister's name because it was her van. That is in the appeal docs that I posted. That makes sense to me now.

Read those docs and tell me if you think Chuckie or Steve would be more likely be a danger to her based on what we know about their pasts ? They both were there and both knew teresa was there.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/newsdocs/avery documents 1-22.pdf
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/newsdocs/avery document page 23 +.pdf

 

[dexter75]

ABSOLUTELY.
They needed a story. A how. Brendan was the how, what& when.
HE was their story. Poor kid.

Hard to say. Maybe when they started talking to him, they found a weakness in him and just kept going. They interviewed everyone in the family.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[dexter75]

Do we know IF the prosecutor suggested she was murdered in the garage BEFORE or AFTER Brendan gave yet another story and presented the bleach spotted pants? Was there ever PROOF she was murdered in garage? Luminol testing for blood? etc?

I hear you. I am reading a transcript of Brendan's confession, and it's so all over the place and it's possible that just about any amount of it is true. I think the part that I believe is that he helped Avery bleach the garage floor and burn the body. That's about all I am sure of. The mother saw those bleached pants, and those were taken into evidence by the police.

That's the thing, I cannot get past that point in my mind where I believe that the bleaching of the garage floor didn't happen.

So if that did happen, what is Avery's explanation ? Clearly he is being deceptive if he doesn't provide an explanation for the bleaching of the garage floor or how that bleach got on Brendan and why he would have said they were bleaching his garage floor. right ?

That's kind of the most damning evidence of the murder occurring in Avery's garage and him being involved. Brendan's pants suggest that. Brendan's mom confirmed that by noting the conversation with Brendan the night of the murder.

Can someone come up with an explanation for the bleach/pants debacle ?

 

[MaxManning]

Do we know IF the prosecutor suggested she was murdered in the garage BEFORE or AFTER Brendan gave yet another story and presented the bleach spotted pants? Was there ever PROOF she was murdered in garage? Luminol testing for blood? etc?

The reason the police theorized the garage is because of what Barb Janda said. She is the one who introduced bleach, brendan's pants , and that brendans said he was helping steve steve clean his garage floor with bleach, leading them to believe it was a potential murder location.

Luminol testing finds blood. Bleach cleans the blood and destroys blood evidence - that's the point!

I keep saying this is the one detail that is still very hard for me to get past. It was not the police that just theorized that Brendan and Steve were cleaning the floor. Brendan told that to his mom before any investigation even began and Barb was ever aware of a missing person. Barb didn't recognize the significance of what she said when she told the police, but that's why I see it is very likely the truth.

Does it mean they were cleaning up blood ? nope. But isn't it something that needs to be explained ?

I don't see any of Steve's testimony stating he cleaned anything up in the garage. Now brendan says he was never in the garage that night. So... what is most likely the truth ?

What brendan told barb that night ? Or whatever everyone is saying now that all the evidence is out there and they can choose to say whatever implicates them the least ?

 

[MaxManning]

Was there ever PROOF she was murdered in garage?

If police are to be believed and the bullet with halbach's dna wasn't planted, then that would indicate that the murder possibly occurred in the garage.

So it depends on whether or not you believe that the bullet is legit.

Other than that, there is only speculation based on what Barb Janda said. What she said is not what I'd consider proof of anything, but I do believe that brendan and steve were cleaning something off the floor of the garage. That's my dilemna in trying to exclude Avery.

 

[dexter75]

Could Charles Avery have been the one calling Teresa and harassing her over and over? Per her co worker.
Maybe the brother and the ex had knowledge of this and when sis came up missing, and later murdered, those boys were going to make sure the Avery's paid! Especially once that vehicle was located. Maybe, they didn't know WHICH person from the Salvage yard was calling, but knew the calls were coming from from there. Maybe the deleted VM's were indeed one of those men who just happened to be obsessed with her?

 

[dexter75]

Steve, is nothing short of a scapegoat. IMO

 

[MaxManning]

Could Charles Avery have been the one calling Teresa and harassing her over and over? Per her co worker.
Maybe the brother and the ex had knowledge of this and when sis came up missing, and later murdered, those boys were going to make sure the Avery's paid! Especially once that vehicle was located. Maybe, they didn't know WHICH person from the Salvage yard was calling, but knew the calls were coming from from there. Maybe the deleted VM's were indeed one of those men who just happened to be obsessed with her?

Yep, I theorized exactly this point when those appeal docs were posted originally by Brightbird.

I have reposted them since, but BrightBird is the one that found them. Great find!


Edit -- I don't think the brother/ex had anything to do with vm deleting. My theory is that whoever killed her deleted their own vm's as they had the phone. Yes, I find it hard to believe that deleted voice mails weren't deleted for a specific reason - relating to the crime. Which is why I say I find it hard to believe that someone doesn't know who had been contacting her against her wishes. Chuckie had a history of doing that.

 

[dexter75]

I got it. I'm calm:thinking: Just listening to Barb and her boy talk sometimes, I get confused.
Not to mention I myself am typing one handed, in the dark, next to my sleeping child

 

[dexter75]

For sure! It makes sense! All of it!

Yep, I theorized exactly this point when those appeal docs were posted originally by Brightbird.

I have reposted them since, but BrightBird is the one that found them. Great find!


Edit -- I don't think the brother/ex had anything to do with vm deleting. My theory is that whoever killed her deleted their own vm's as they had the phone. Yes, I find it hard to believe that deleted voice mails weren't deleted for a specific reason - relating to the crime. Which is why I say I find it hard to believe that someone doesn't know who had been contacting her against her wishes. Chuckie had a history of doing that.