Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery

[arkansasmimi]

I haven't watched the documentary but to try and answer at least a few things brought up:

I believe the license plate was found inside another vehicle that was on the salvage lot.



Yes, Steven had purchased the restraints and told police that he had because he wanted to try out some new things with his fiance.



As for Teresa, I remember reading that in the past when she'd gone there for work, Steven had opened the door with only a towel on. I can see that making her uncomfortable. If I remember correctly too, he used his sister's name when calling and asking specifically for her





I just don't see this as being a set-up. For it to be we'd have to assume that the police somehow figured out that Teresa was going to be there, they decided to murder and burn her and then they made it back to the property to plant her car, the plates, blood, her bones, cell phone, camera, etc. And then, they just got unbelievably lucky in finding Brendan who just happened to be there cleaning the garage with bleach with his uncle and also just happened to be easily manipulated into confessing to a crime that not only he didn't commit but wasn't even present for. To me, it's more likely that Steven figured his past wrongful conviction gave him the perfect excuse/cover to commit more crimes (he was a convicted felon prior to his wrongful conviction.) If attention came his way he could always claim that he was being set up and/or that he was once again being wrongfully accused and convicted.

Rbbm, I bolded these 2 things and am posting only because this came up just above my comment. So I apologize if I taking out of context. On the blood (I just finished episode 4 where they found the blood vial from his 1985 case, evidence seal broken and scotch taped back, with liquid in the vial and a hole from a needle in top of the rubber stopper on vial. Labcorp said they dont do that. And they had interviewed Brenden 3 months prior then went back and got him from school and interviewed him again and did suggestions to him So sad I hope you get a chance to watch the series. Ok stepping out sorry to butt in.

 

[Tiger09]

How was her own DNA not on her own car key?

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

 

[arkansasmimi]

I've finished the series, and then I went to read the thread about it here. Didn't read the whole thing, but there were definitely things left out of the documentary like the fact that he purchased restraints just before the murder and he scheduled the appointment with Teresa using another name. (And that she had previously expressed discomfort going to the Avery residence.)

Most problematic for me with regard to whether or not these two committed this crime is the lack of Teresa's DNA anywhere on the property or even on her own car key. These two don't seem smart enough to have cleaned up so well as to leave no trace evidence.

Darn it I wasn't gonna read til I finished but couldn't help my self. I agree on the key. Investigator for Stevem A attorney said that this was same key that Teresa had used for ever, yet there was no DNA on the key, even in clevises with any of HER DNA, only Steven Averys! (Episode 4)

 

[arkansasmimi]

I mean, Manitowoc County Sheriffs Dept was not supposed to be on that crime screen, whatsoever. And here we find out they were on scene for several days. They also hid him from his lawyer the first day they arrested him. This case is a mess, just like the first one.


Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

I just finished 4 but cant remb if it was 3 or 4, one LEO on stand said that when they were searching the home of S Avery, when the shoes were first moved the KEY WAS NOT THERE. Then those 2 LEO who weren't suppose to be there "found it" with no other DNA except S Avery?? Gonna try to stay open minded til watch all and read the orig thread but sure sounds fishy JMHO

 

[Tiger09]

And why was the warrant... what kind of magical warrant lets LE search for several days?

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

 

[Ringfinger]

False confessions are very, very troubling. It's incredibly difficult for me to imagine it happening under any circumstance, but we know that it does happen.

Even in watching the documentary there is something that sets off my spider senses. There is definitely a feeling that we are missing some major information. For one, they don't give a timeline or paint a story defending SA like they did with the rape case. We are left in the dark as far as what happened a lot of that day.

There is clearly a lot that is not answered by either side of that case. My biggest concern would be that there is absolutely no way a human was shot 10-11 times in that garage. There is so much junk in there. Her blood would be all over.

There is no way that a human had their throat slit on that mattress.

If this was a set up, I don't think we will ever find out. This would be a massive level of conspiracy at this point. If he were released and proven innocent, proven to be set up, the law suit would bankrupt the state. So many powerful jobs and livelihoods are a stake now.
Has anyone found complete transcripts of Brendan Dassey's interviews?

 

[arkansasmimi]

I don't know the details yet of her case. There was no blood? Maybe she was taken to a funeral home where they remove blood from the body and then she was cremated. Did LE have friends at the funeral parlor? Sorry if this idea sounds ridiculous. I still need to get through all of the episodes and the details of the cases in general.

So far and I am on Episode 5 she either had her throat cut and was shot in head (could be wrong) but in the episode where Jodi, Steven Avery GF comes home from being in jail for 7 months iirc, she goes into the home (film crew in tow). No blood on the mattress, none on the walls, bed or carpet, NO WHERE IN VISIBLE SITE. If her throat was cut and she was still alive wouldnt there be splatter of some sort? Some where? Just makes go hmmm

 

[arkansasmimi]

The car wasn't crushed but it was still on their property... How did no one notice it being planted?

I think its either a brother or uncle, but when Steven 2 attorneys from the criminal case went out to the salvage yard at the beginning that they took the case.. that guy said he saw lights down the way that night and that he had even told detectives about it. *Just stating what I saw in the documentary not saying it true or not jmho

 

[arkansasmimi]

No blood, than I call BS. He can't be that good to clean up so well. But HIS blood is in her car and her keys on his floor? After it was searched once before? Ridiculous.

RBBM, was searched way more times than one when they found the key. And that bedroom (in the video when Jodi returned home) was tossed and everything dumped out, but the mattress was still on the frame. No blood that I seen anywhere, unless was covered up but didnt appear that way. The LEO were there 8 days searching the property. One LEO on stand said that when first searched, the shoes (which were by the key) were first moved there was no key there. Then it appeared... sketchy for sure...

 

[arkansasmimi]

If she was found as cremains than she could have been cremated at an actual crematorium somewhere. JMO

Allegedly they found some parts that still had muscle attached to it (sorry that is so gruesome to even type) so unsure.

 

[MaxManning]

Alright, I'm done with this one. Not a whole lot of evidence to sift through like Paradise Lost (thank god)

Avery is guilty imo. I also believe the nephew was likely involved, although via pressure from Avery. It's obvious that he is truly not a bright kid, and was likely easily persuaded by Avery.

The documentary leaves out too many very damning pieces of evidence to be considered credible imo.

1. Brendan's mother noted that brendan had bleach on his pants and that he told her that he was helping clean Avery's garage floor.
2. Avery bought shackles and handcuffs just weeks before, and his sister was with him. They were found in the burn barrel.
3. Avery used a different name when requesting Halbach for taking photos.
4. Halbach noted she was uncomfortable in going to Avery's place because he has answered the door in only a towel before.
5. Both brothers Chuck and Earl had sexual assault crimes on their rap sheet. - yes, it explains WHY people had this impression of Averys, it wasn't just gossip.

Leaving these things out of the documentary has me calling BS. It's irritating that someone would make a documentary and leave all this out, instead of providing explanations. Certainly these pieces of evidence are of huge significance to any jury member deliberating a verdict.

I think if these issues were acknowledged and explanations were provided by defense, I might feel differently. But I feel quite manipulated by these exclusions.

Feel bad for Brendan, because I do believe he is rather slow and quite strongly believe he would never had done something of this nature on his own. I don't doubt for a second that if Brendan arrived at Avery's trailer while this was happening, Avery would feel the need to include Brendan in the crime as a means of control to keep him from telling someone. It's either that or kill his nephew. Clearly he understood that Brendan was slow, so that likely seemed like the best solution to Avery at the time.

The other troubling aspect was the shotgun incident with the one lady when he was younger. If there hadn't of been a child in that car, it's possible that could have turned out far differently. So although Avery wasn't guilty of the rape in 1985, the shotgun incident is enough that I think 18 years is reasonable punishment. So do I feel outrage about the false rape accusation ?? nope.

Netflix should be ashamed. Sorry, I don't think this should be billed as a documentary. I can understand picking most relevant information, but surely the 5 above fall into that category if you want to be taken seriously. Manipulative conspiracy propaganda is what it comes off as if you spend a few hours looking at all the evidence.

 

[Brightbird]

I can't believe how much contradiction there was between Steven and Brendan's cases. Kratz starts out Avery's case saying the evidence points to one man, then goes on to prosecute Brendan's case after Steven's. If Brendan's confession were true, there just had to be Teresa's DNA somewhere in that house. But the only bit ever found was on the bullet 6 months later. Even allowing for any bias by the film makers, I do not believe Steven and Brendan are guilty. Just the fact that the officers who were being sued were the ones who found crucial evidence is too fishy for me. I do feel for Teresa's family. A lot of people will think Steven and Brendan are innocent now, and that's got to frustrate them.

 

[MaxManning]

Forgot to mention the whole conspiracy aspect as I see it.

Is it possible that the police planted evidence ? I'm going to say that I think it's possible. I can see the police wanting to make sure they got him, and truly believing they had the right guy.

I get that he was wrongly convicted on rape and served 18 years, but that doesn't make him incapable of this crime. The shotgun incident shows that he was capable of being extremely dangerous.

I am not saying that they were right to do that, if they did, but I am saying that regardless - they got the right guy, imo.

Lastly, I think the documentary does show that if you WERE truly innocent in a case like this, it likely wouldn't matter unless you had massive amounts of money for lawyers. The documentary does make clear that public defenders are rubbish. imo I don't care if you think your client is guilty, because 99% of the time they likely are, you should be in contact with the mother of that child and be doing things the right way as well.

 

[Tiger09]

There's a subreddit for the show with a PDF with a complete transcript of Brendan's "confession ".

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

 

[MaxManning]

I can't believe how much contradiction there was between Steven and Brendan's cases. Kratz starts out Avery's case saying the evidence points to one man, then goes on to prosecute Brendan's case after Steven's. If Brendan's confession were true, there just had to be Teresa's DNA somewhere in that house. But the only bit ever found was on the bullet 6 months later. Even allowing for any bias by the film makers, I do not believe Steven and Brendan are guilty. Just the fact that the officers who were being sued were the ones who found crucial evidence is too fishy for me. I do feel for Teresa's family. A lot of people will think Steven and Brendan are innocent now, and that's got to frustrate them.

I do hear what you are saying. But I think it's plausible that they could have cleaned up the garage. They had time to clean up and we don't even know if her throat was even slit in the bedroom. I think it's clear that we don't know how much of Brendan's testimony is reliable.

However, I place a high degree of probability that there was blood in the garage where she was shot. Brendan had bleach on his pants and said he had helped clean the floor. He told his mother about that, the night of the killing. We see photos of the garage packed with stuff etc, but those pictures are not on the evening of the crime. right ?

I think it's possible that Brendan even just encountered Avery and he got Brendan to help move her to the garage for whatever means of killing/disposing etc.

I'm just saying, you can't leave out the 5 things I noted and have me not be equally or more suspicious of Avery.

 

[MaxManning]

I think its either a brother or uncle, but when Steven 2 attorneys from the criminal case went out to the salvage yard at the beginning that they took the case.. that guy said he saw lights down the way that night and that he had even told detectives about it. *Just stating what I saw in the documentary not saying it true or not jmho

I think your reactions are exactly the same as mine when I binge watched this series.

When you get to the end. Take a look at the 5 points on my reply above. Is it possible to be getting some level of deception from both sides and have Avery still guilty ?

That's kind of my conclusion. I think he's guilty and the police were also possibly opportunistic in enhancing the evidence. I use their term, I call it framing someone. However, it doesn't make Avery innocent in my mind after a small amount of research. I swung all the way back in the other direction after realizing the defense/documentary was executing it's own snowjob.

 

[Brightbird]

I do hear what you are saying. But I think it's plausible that they could have cleaned up the garage. They had time to clean up and we don't even know if her throat was even slit in the bedroom. I think it's clear that we don't know how much of Brendan's testimony is reliable.

However, I place a high degree of probability that there was blood in the garage where she was shot. Brendan had bleach on his pants and said he had helped clean the floor. He told his mother about that, the night of the killing. We see photos of the garage packed with stuff etc, but those pictures are not on the evening of the crime. right ?

I think it's possible that Brendan even just encountered Avery and he got Brendan to help move her to the garage for whatever means of killing/disposing etc.

I'm just saying, you can't leave out the 5 things I noted and have me not be equally or more suspicious of Avery.

Sure, I am trying to keep an open mind even though the doc was very compelling. I can't put much faith in details from Brendan's confession. The confession tapes don't lie, granted we don't see everything. That scene where he was pressured into saying what happened to her head was highly dubious to me. He says they cut her hair, the officers keep saying what else? Brendan gives several things that happened to her head including cutting her throat. The officers just wanted him to say she was shot. Instead they got all this other stuff first, so the gruesome story grew from there. It sounded like the active imagination of a 16 year old from the mental capacity of a 10 year old. I have only read that the cuffs and restraints were found in Avery's bedroom. I would like to read more about the sisters account of Avery buying them weeks before, and about Brendan helping to clean the floor. It would have been good to hear the defense talk about those things. At this point I can (but don't) believe Avery killed her, but not the way it happened according to Brendan. But I can also believe the police set him up.

 

[MaxManning]

Sure, I am trying to keep an open mind even though the doc was very compelling. I can't put much faith in details from Brendan's confession. The confession tapes don't lie, granted we don't see everything. That scene where he was pressured into saying what happened to her head was highly dubious to me. He says they cut her hair, the officers keep saying what else? Brendan gives several things that happened to her head including cutting her throat. The officers just wanted him to say she was shot. Instead they got all this other stuff first, so the gruesome story grew from there. It sounded like the active imagination of a 16 year old from the mental capacity of a 10 year old. I have only read that the cuffs and restraints were found in Avery's bedroom. I would like to read more about the sisters account of Avery buying them weeks before, and about Brendan helping to clean the floor. It would have been good to hear the defense talk about those things. At this point I can (but don't) believe Avery killed her, but not the way it happened according to Brendan. But I can also believe the police set him up.

I hear you. I am reading a transcript of Brendan's confession, and it's so all over the place and it's possible that just about any amount of it is true. I think the part that I believe is that he helped Avery bleach the garage floor and burn the body. That's about all I am sure of. The mother saw those bleached pants, and those were taken into evidence by the police.

That's the thing, I cannot get past that point in my mind where I believe that the bleaching of the garage floor didn't happen.

So if that did happen, what is Avery's explanation ? Clearly he is being deceptive if he doesn't provide an explanation for the bleaching of the garage floor or how that bleach got on Brendan and why he would have said they were bleaching his garage floor. right ?

That's kind of the most damning evidence of the murder occurring in Avery's garage and him being involved. Brendan's pants suggest that. Brendan's mom confirmed that by noting the conversation with Brendan the night of the murder.

Can someone come up with an explanation for the bleach/pants debacle ?

 

[al66pine]

Started watching last night, snoozed, just finished the tenth episode. Wow.

Thanks to all who have analyzed & offered opinions here, esp w some things I missing in my watching.
Heading off to read transcripts of LE interviewing Brendan.

ETA: an article on the series: http://previously.tv/making-a-murderer/two-episodes-in-who-do-you-trust-on-making-a-murderer/
Some astute observations (but also some snark).

 

[Brightbird]

When Dassey testified at his trial he said that he did help Avery clean an unknown substance in the garage using bleach, but that he never went in to the house that night. Elsewhere I've read that they also used paint thinner and gasoline. So maybe there was a harmless substance on the floor and they tried a few different things to remove it?

http://www.weau.com/news/headlines/7157566.html?device=phone&c=y

And this from a blog that is critical of the state's case. Make what you will.

That night, Fassbender also confronted Brendan Dassey about a red stain on the Avery garage floor, likely from a spill of red antifreeze. After leading questioning, Dassey said it might be blood then said it was blood. The spot tested negative for blood. (But, the prosecution continued to claim it was blood during Dassey’s trial.)

http://www.convolutedbrian.com/the-fox-hills-resort-session-with-brendan-dassey.html