Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery

[catswhiskers]

I was listening to that interview Steven gave the media outside his trailer when Teresa was first reported missing.

He's asked if she said where she was going after she left him.

He says (something like): "Not really. She always just takes the pictures, comes and gets the money and then leaves".

Now, this interested me. He is clearly lumping this last visit in with all the other visits Teresa has made there....there's no difference in his mind. It was all just the same...nothing out of the ordinary to remember.

Would this be the case if he knew she'd never left because he'd attacked and murdered her? Wouldn't he have a better, more detailed story cooked up?

And that Auto Trader magazine. It is clear to me that Teresa never set foot in that trailer. If she had and been overpowered in there, her DNA or fingerprints would be present - stray hairs, saliva from shouting etc. But there's nothing.

So, are we expected to believe he attacked her outside, drove her away in her car....and then remembered to take his complimentary copy of Auto Trader and a bill of sale paper back to his trailer?

Seriously?

The more I think about this, the more and more certain I am that he is entirely innocent.

How devastating. How truly devastating that this should happen to him TWICE. To sit in there knowing that he has virtually no chance of getting out, that half of his family have deserted him, missing seeing his children and grandchild grow up.

If Colborn or Lenk have a an ounce of decency inside them they'll realise what they've done and come clean. If they can't man up and face prison like Steven has had to do then maybe they should consider removing themselves from our planet altogether once they've confessed.

And may the sherrif's department go bankrupt with the millions upon millions that they have to pay Steven.

I agree totally LemonMousse. I find Steven very believable and I don't think he would do a very good job of being deceptive if he tried. He seems to say what he is thinking very directly and honestly and without any note of malice or revenge despite his unbelievable situation.

On another note (and not at all related to your post LemonMousse) I think it's been very easy for the public to judge this family for not fitting into their view of what is 'normal'. Am kind of over the constant comments about low IQs and questionable lineages. Comments about inbreeding are especially offensive - the elder Averys in particular do not deserve that kind of disrespect, and to me they appear kind and good natured - and possess a kind of quiet dignity despite what they are going through and no doubt the awful things they have had to hear said about themselves and their family in general.

 

[staticgirl50]

As For BD Honestly I think his IQ is a HUGE issue here. Regardless of guilt I really do not think he understood what happened. Does that make him innocent- No. I have to study this further before I can give my opinion on guilt or innocence, but I do think he was unable to give a proper confession, I think his IQ/Age, should have had him handled with kid gloves.

I feel awful for that kid. Had he been in different circumstances I doubt this would have ever been his path.

 

[angelainwi]

Look at their place on Google Earth now lol. So many cars gone. Steves trailer still there....area where her car was found completely grown over now...fire pit behind garage is just a creepy indentation

https://www.google.com/maps/place/A...2!3m1!1s0x88032f8488dc4951:0xadf6110dd92e91b2

 

[SCHMAE]

I was listening to that interview Steven gave the media outside his trailer when Teresa was first reported missing.

He's asked if she said where she was going after she left him.

He says (something like): "Not really. She always just takes the pictures, comes and gets the money and then leaves".

Now, this interested me. He is clearly lumping this last visit in with all the other visits Teresa has made there....there's no difference in his mind. It was all just the same...nothing out of the ordinary to remember.

Would this be the case if he knew she'd never left because he'd attacked and murdered her? Wouldn't he have a better, more detailed story cooked up?

And that Auto Trader magazine. It is clear to me that Teresa never set foot in that trailer. If she had and been overpowered in there, her DNA or fingerprints would be present - stray hairs, saliva from shouting etc. But there's nothing.

So, are we expected to believe he attacked her outside, drove her away in her car....and then remembered to take his complimentary copy of Auto Trader and a bill of sale paper back to his trailer?

Seriously?

The more I think about this, the more and more certain I am that he is entirely innocent.

How devastating. How truly devastating that this should happen to him TWICE. To sit in there knowing that he has virtually no chance of getting out, that half of his family have deserted him, missing seeing his children and grandchild grow up.

If Colborn or Lenk have a an ounce of decency inside them they'll realise what they've done and come clean. If they can't man up and face prison like Steven has had to do then maybe they should consider removing themselves from our planet altogether once they've confessed.

And may the sherrif's department go bankrupt with the millions upon millions that they have to pay Steven.

I thought about this as well. An Auto Trader magazine INSIDE his home doesn't mean she was in his home, merely because she works for Auto Trader. Millions of people have Auto Trader in their home at any given time, or at least back 10 yrs ago. There was not always craigslist and online sources for selling cars. The Auto Trader was the go to magazine for buying or selling vehicles for many years. Especially considering he works in an auto business, buying and selling vehicles and parts, I'm sure he had dozens or more of the magazines in his house at any time. So during trial the DA acts as if the Auto Trader in his house is undeniable proof that she stepped inside. I call BS on that.

 

[SCHMAE]

Look at their place on Google Earth now lol. So many cars gone. Steves trailer still there....area where her car was found completely grown over now...fire pit behind garage is just a creepy indentation

https://www.google.com/maps/place/A...2!3m1!1s0x88032f8488dc4951:0xadf6110dd92e91b2

In that final episode the dad was saying this has ruined his business completely. I'd imagine very few locals want to go on that property to buy a hubcap or a hood for their car. They've probably been selling the cars off to pay the bills. I'll agree with Steven's attorney who said " I hope he is guilty'' because if not, this is a nightmare for so many people.

 

[gittlebass]

If he had taken the stand in his own defense, he would have had to reveal is prior felonies. I imagine that had a large part in why he didn't. The prosecution would have impeached his prior record for credibility.

The reason people keep mentioning the cat is because of the animal abuse and arson, two of the best signs of future homicidal tendencies. I have never said his past criminal behavior makes him guilty of murder, but I think it makes him a great suspect. Along w. CA, EA, and ST, all frequently inhabiting the property, all prior violent crimes like Steven. I have from the beginning asked for all of them to be investigated- they all certainly should have from the beginning, especially CA with no alibi.

Frankly, I am sick of people representing Steven as this great person turning his life around with no motive for this crime. This guy was a felon, convicted of violent crimes, just like his brothers. He deserved to be investigated as a suspect. That doesn't excuse the poor investigation and clear framing by LE, and it certainly does not excuse what happened to Brendan, but I don't understand for a second why this is a "motiveless crime." Any of those salvage yard residents could have had a motive, just because we don't know it doesn't mean there was none.


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But i think people are just as sick of the "I don't think he did it but he probably did" crowd as well. Yes, steven is no saint, but im not going to make the jump to say "well, i dont think he did it but he PROBABLY brutally raped, murdered, disposed of a corpse and then perfectly cleaned up a crime scene" How do you make that leap?

 

[gittlebass]

For the record, plenty of the locals you say defend the guilty verdicts and can't see past their own biases questioned Dassey and Avery's verdicts long before this documentary came out. As for carrying their bias into the deliberation room, the found Avery not guilty on the mutilation charge, and the initial polling of the jury had jurors voting not guilty on the murder charge. Avery's jury clearly was willing to consider the charges, they deliberated 21 hours.

I can't and won't defend the Dassey verdict, the only reason I can see him being found guilty is because many people unfortunately believe that people won't confess to a crime they didn't commit. This isn't just a WI problem, but a problem throughout the U.S. The Innocence project is one organization that has really helped the public understand how false confessions can happen. I don't know if this is why Brendan was convicted, but I can say I have yet to talk to someone in Wisconsin who feels Brendan deserved life in prison.

I have attempted to explain a few times on here why local opinion of the Avery family is the way it is, and have always said plenty of it is rumors, but a lot of it is because a lot of people have had interactions w. Members of the Avery family that did not sit well with them or made them feel uneasy/uncomfortable. Since I've been back in Sheboygan County over holiday break (I'm attending law school in Chicago) I've tried to talk to as many people as I can about their impressions, and it doesn't take much prompting in most cases- its obviously a huge topic of discussion. I can't speak for every local resident, but I have heard more people say they think Avery is innocent than guilty. Almost all of those people, however, believe someone on the Avery property was responsible. As I said earlier, a lot of negative opinion about the Avery's is because of rumor, but a lot of it is because of their own interactions with members of the family- mostly EA and especially CA.

Since the documentary came out, I think a lot of of Wisconsinites have questioned their beliefs about Avery's guilt, far more than I expected tbh. I will say, however, other than papers out of Milwaukee or Madison, a lot of local press has been reluctant to criticize the Manitowoc PD as much as they deserve (IMO). Sheboygan is a pretty conservative county, Manitowoc and Calumet even more so, and I assume that may be part of the reason.

I will say, i think a lot of frustration from Wisconsinites stems from listening to people who watched a pro-defense documentary act like experts, when most of us watched, read, and followed the Avery trial for 5 weeks in realtime. I want to be clear I'm NOT talking about any of the posters on this site- I think it's great how much effort and interest a lot of the people on here have put into learning about and researching this case after watching the documentary.

Gigi, to answer your question about who id rather have on my side, Strang is one of the best attorneys money can buy in WI. I was beyond impressed with what I saw from him in the documentary.


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I find it interesting that you say people are upset cause others are watching this documentary and coming out like experts, yet, the trial itself was full of so many lies and half truths that the people who watched it can't consider themselves experts on the case as well.

 

[SCHMAE]

But i think people are just as sick of the "I don't think he did it but he probably did" crowd as well. Yes, steven is no saint, but im not going to make the jump to say "well, i dont think he did it but he PROBABLY brutally raped, murdered, disposed of a corpse and then perfectly cleaned up a crime scene" How do you make that leap?

Maybe they have never found ' the crime scene' . I agree there is no way she was killed in that bedroom, trailer OR in the garage. Whether or not that means Avery did the crime or not, I do not know. But I don't think anyone was killed in that bedroom or that garage.

 

[AutumnDawn]

Since I started reading info on this case, I'm overwhelmed at the amount of information being dug up by everyone! SA and BD have some awesome people doing all they can to clear their names and find out who the real murderer is , and expose the LE officers for their suspected tampering of evidence.Questions I have:1. Who was calling Teresa that morning, according to phone records?2. Who called her at 2:41 that lasted a little over a minute, before her phone went off?3. If her phone went off after this call, but she was seen taking pictures at the salvage yard at approx. 3:30....then what was she doing?4. Why did SA BD and ST all say she was there at approx. 2:30-3:00....but the bus driver and Brenden say approx 3:30?5. A witness testified he saw a green SUV leave the salvage yard? How did it end up back at the salvage yard??6. If an Avery or Taldach was responsible why drive the vehicle back to the last place she was known to be?7. Where was Colborn when he called in plates? This is critical in finding the actual murder site?8. How did all those LE at the site miss bones in the backyard?9. How did they search thousands of cars, and miss her vehicle that was apparently not that well hidden, since the Aunt found it in less than 30 minutes??10. Why didn't his lawyers take this higher up if they felt as though LE might have been tampering with evidence? SA got life in prison based on faulty evidence and trial.

 

[Tawny]

Speaking of the phone calls, i see a lot of mentions that maybe it was SA calling her repeatedly, but wouldn't HIS phone records dispute that? Have we ever seen his phone records?

I find it extremely interesting and creepy that the ex boyfriend and brother had access to her voicemails and things were erased. I wonder if it was the ex that was calling her repeatedly and he deleted voicemails. JMO, subject to change.

 

[stephsb]

But i think people are just as sick of the "I don't think he did it but he probably did" crowd as well. Yes, steven is no saint, but im not going to make the jump to say "well, i dont think he did it but he PROBABLY brutally raped, murdered, disposed of a corpse and then perfectly cleaned up a crime scene" How do you make that leap?

I've never said that he probably did it, just that this doesn't have to be a motiveless crime. This obviously didn't happen the way the State alleged it did, but that doesn't mean he's 100 percent innocent, or that it's impossible that he raped, murdered, and disposed of Teresa. I do think it is impossible for him to have cleaned up the crime scene as perfectly as the State would have us believe, so if a murder and rape did occur, it wasn't in the garage or trailer. Personally, I think there is at least one better suspect than Steven on that property.


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[stephsb]

I find it interesting that you say people are upset cause others are watching this documentary and coming out like experts, yet, the trial itself was full of so many lies and half truths that the people who watched it can't consider themselves experts on the case as well.

I don't think anyone is an expert on this case, so I apologize if I was not clear enough on that point. Even watching the trial every day would not give you access to everything in the case file, not even close. The documentary did leave out parts of the trial, which they have said in interviews (understandable, it was a nearly 6 week trial) and that was the main point I was trying to make. Sorry for any confusion.


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[stephsb]

Maybe they have never found ' the crime scene' . I agree there is no way she was killed in that bedroom, trailer OR in the garage. Whether or not that means Avery did the crime or not, I do not know. But I don't think anyone was killed in that bedroom or that garage.

Completely agree, I don't believe they found the crime scene. Doesn't exclude Avery from the murder, but completely disproves the State's theory of what happened (IMO)


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[Zuri]

I haven't finished watching the documentary yet, so please forgive me if this has been asked and answered. Have SA or BD Appeals lawyers been able to find anything that would cause their convictions to be thrown out? IIRC, they weren't entitled to a new trial unless new evidence is found? Is there no other recourse for BD? Thanks in advance (TIA)

 

[stephsb]

As For BD Honestly I think his IQ is a HUGE issue here. Regardless of guilt I really do not think he understood what happened. Does that make him innocent- No. I have to study this further before I can give my opinion on guilt or innocence, but I do think he was unable to give a proper confession, I think his IQ/Age, should have had him handled with kid gloves.

I feel awful for that kid. Had he been in different circumstances I doubt this would have ever been his path.

I think Brendan is completely innocent. I doubt he ever had any first hand knowledge of what happened to Teresa, although I think he may possibly have heard things from family members. I've read all his statements and there is virtually nothing related to the crime scene that is introduced by him, he is led by investigators to give a confession that fits what they believe happened. This practice is beyond concerning. There is no way the March 1 confession should have been admissible. What happened to Brendan makes me sick.


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[Zuri]

I think Brendan is completely innocent. I doubt he ever had any first hand knowledge of what happened to Teresa, although I think he may possibly have heard things from family members. I've read all his statements and there is virtually nothing related to the crime scene that is introduced by him, he is led by investigators to give a confession that fits what they believe happened. This practice is beyond concerning. There is no way the March 1 confession should have been admissible. What happened to Brendan makes me sick.


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IYPO, is there any way BD's conviction can be thrown out? Doesn't the ACLU get involved in cases where the person's IQ is so low and don't have the mental capacity to defend themselves or make educated decisions? Something seems so wrong here!

 

[stephsb]

I haven't finished watching the documentary yet, so please forgive me if this has been asked and answered. Have SA or BD Appeals lawyers been able to find anything that would cause their convictions to be thrown out? IIRC, they weren't entitled to a new trial unless new evidence is found? Is there no other recourse for BD? Thanks in advance (TIA)

Brendan's lawyers have filed a writ of habeus corpus which a federal judge will rule on. Both of them have exhausted their state appeals I believe. Since appellate courts deal only w. Procedural errors at trial, I'm not sure how much luck Avery will have, but he does have great attorneys, and hopefully they will be able to come up with something that sticks.


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[stephsb]

IYPO, is there any way BD's conviction can be thrown out? Doesn't the ACLU get involved in cases where the person's IQ is so low and don't have the mental capacity to defend themselves or make educated decisions? Something seems so wrong here!

That is a question I have also wondered- what was his actual IQ was (reportedly around 70) as that may help him. The innocence project has also said they are reviewing the case, which hopefully brings him good news


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[Soulmagent]

I think Brendan is completely innocent. I doubt he ever had any first hand knowledge of what happened to Teresa, although I think he may possibly have heard things from family members. I've read all his statements and there is virtually nothing related to the crime scene that is introduced by him, he is led by investigators to give a confession that fits what they believe happened. This practice is beyond concerning. There is no way the March 1 confession should have been admissible. What happened to Brendan makes me sick.


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Brendan was used as the vessel in which to convict Steve Avery . He is the reason they were able to get all the different warrants and gain entry to the property over and over.
Anytime they wanted to look for something the made him say it. In the end ,I think his trial was another stab at the Steve Avery. Even the timing of the visit from TH is questionable. She waits an hour until just when the bus was coming. I mean it could be looked at '' as make sure the bus driver see's you because we need a reason to believe the kids saw something so we can question them.''

That is my extreme this is all a set up with no murder theory. I know other people are not there yet. Odd to really murder someone when you know she was seen in front of your house, plus it is very good for a case when the victim was placed alive taking pictures a few minutes before she vanishes.

 

[gittlebass]

I don't think anyone is an expert on this case, so I apologize if I was not clear enough on that point. Even watching the trial every day would not give you access to everything in the case file, not even close. The documentary did leave out parts of the trial, which they have said in interviews (understandable, it was a nearly 6 week trial) and that was the main point I was trying to make. Sorry for any confusion.


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The only person whose saying it left out details were ken kratz, the disgraced sexual predatory DA. Why should we believe him? I haven't seen one counterpoint on the case that wasn't this list that he put out. is there another source that can list this missing evidence other than ken kratz?