Crime reporter Saskia Belleman, continued
@SaskiaBelleman
The case is being resumed.
Jos B. is back in his seat. The Public Prosecutor continues to ask questions in response to the video statement.
Was Jos B. walking or cycling on the moor? "I would so like to help you by clarifying my statement. But we are talking about more than 20 years ago," Jos B. says.
Jos B. says he's tried to explain things before, "but it's been a long time, blurry. And I was panicking. One big chaos." He feels the Public Prosecutor's Office tries to catch him on points where he would contradict himself.
The technique in some of the rooms is apparently faltering... Jos B..: "It's all so vague. As much as I would like to help. Every little thing I say, or what I fill in, is going to be held against me. I also have to take care of myself."
Jos B. is afraid to burden himself. He is asked again how he went to the moor. On a bicycle, or walking? Or by car? Jos B.: You can get there by car. But I didn't have a car."
Jos B. had gone to the moor by bike, he says. "And from now on I want to invoke my right to remain silent again. I can't fill in things I don't remember."
The Public Prosecutor is going to ask questions anyway. Can Jos B. describe in more detail the place where he peeed when 'something' caught his attention? Jos B.: "That's the part on the edge of the woods where we also walked during the viewing."
He urinated by the trees along the path. "The thickest tree standing there." He could see across the field from there, he says.
Jos B. can point out the spot on the map later, he says. What attracted his attention? What exactly did he see? Jos B.:"There was nothing specific that I saw."
He ended up at the Christmas tree plot where #Nicky was finally found. What was the boy like? "That's one of those things I don't remember exactly. That's why I want to make use of the right to remain silent."
Jos B. doesn't want to answer the question of whether he moved the boy.
"My statement is on the video. That is my statement. And for the rest I invoke my right to remain silent," Jos B. says.
The public prosecutor: "Do we have to do it from now on with what you said in the video, or are you still going to answer certain questions? Jos B.: "I don't know what questions you're going to ask."
The Public Prosecutor is going to ask questions about the moment when the military police arrested Jos B.. The moment when Jos B. actually wanted to report that he had found a child. "But that was no longer necessary," Jos B. says.
He doesn't remember exactly what he said to the troopers, Jos B. says.
The judge asks why Jos B. waited until today to make a statement. "The parents were already entitled to a statement from the first moment you were arrested."
Jos B.: "You're right that it could have been earlier, me making a statement. But on the advice of my lawyer I have postponed it". Judge: "But you were in custody. I just don't understand it very well."
Jos B. remains silent for a long time. "It's what I said: the longer you walk around with a secret. The harder it is to do anything with it."
Judge: "You've been walking around with that secret for so long. Wasn't your arrest the time to tell your story? Why did it get harder? You could also think: "At last I can do the story I've been carrying with me for so many years."
Jos B..: "It became clear to me at the time of my arrest that I'd already been convicted without my saying a word. Through everything around it. By what was said about me. I was in restrictions and had no access to the media myself".
Why did he not talk to the court? "We've asked you a couple of times for a statement." Jos B..: "And I have."
What exactly caught his attention in the distance? Jos B.: "I don't know exactly. I looked into the distance and thought, there's something there. At least it was enough to make me curious. But what it was, I couldn't remember."
Who was he going to tell that he had found a child? " I heard on the news that the moor had been cordoned off, that there were police. I thought, I can go and report it."
What does Jos B. remember, the judge asks? "For the rest it's a big blur. I acted to see if there was anything I could do."
Jos B.: "I've been checking for a breath. And the heartbeat. I put my ear to his chest to listen to a heartbeat." And he "thinks" that with his ear against #Nicky's mouth he's been trying to find some breathing.
What else did he do? Another long silence. "I've been there...." Silence. "I've probably done something about his clothes. Straightened up a bit." #Nicky was lying on his stomach, says Jos B.
Jos B..: I turned him over. I don't know if he was lying on his stomach. Partly on his belly. I turned him over on his back." That was before he checked #Nicky's heartbeat and breathing, says Jos B.
That "probably" straightening of the clothes Jos B. did later, he says. "When I saw that he had died." What did he have to straighten? "The red pyjama trousers," he says. "Probably straightened them, cleaned a bit. Wiped leaves away. Something like that."
"I've been trying to lay down #Nicky properly," Jos B. now says spontaneously. "He wasn't lying on his back, he was lying upside down. One leg stretched."
The court asks "how far away" that was "something" that caught his attention. Jos B.: "About 30 meters or so."
But he doesn't remember what caught his attention, Jos B. says. The judge asks what he meant by the remark "that there was no longer any need" to report that he had found #Nicky. "He had already been found," says Jos B.
Was it not in the interest of the investigation to report how he found the boy? Jos B.: "If I look back on it now." In 2001, Jos B. was heard at length in this case. Then he said nothing.
He was afraid, says Jos B. Because he had touched 2 boys years earlier, the police had told him that they would know where to find him if something like that would happen again. "That scares you."
But he didn't know what had happened to #Nicky, the judge says. Why did you make the link with your past? Jos B.: "Because children were involved." Why didn't he report his find anonymously over the phone? "That didn't occur to me."
Judge: "To put it bluntly, you're not known as a child killer. Then why didn't you say anything?" Jos B.: "There was fear. In me. I didn't tell anyone."
Lawyer Roethof asked Jos B. questions. First about his fear to report that he had found a dead child. Were there any other fears?" Jos B.: "Whatever I said, I felt watched. If anyone had been there he might have seen me."
"But you had done nothing. Except felt if he was still alive. What were you afraid of," the judge asks. Jos B.: "I didn't want to be involved at the time. That's why I left. I panicked. I walked around for a long time without really knowing what to do."
He didn't confide in anyone, Jos B. says. "I've been thinking about it myself....". Judge: "Did you think I would rather not have found him?" Jos B..: "Yes, but I did find him."
He didn't realise at the time that reporting his find might have shed more light on what had happened. "I don't remember what my thoughts were at the time."
And at the time he did want to report his find, he didn't have to because #Nicky had been found, says Jos B. The feeling that he was being watched; does he remember from which direction that came? Jos B. doesn't remember.
Did he have the feeling that it was a human being, or an animal? "I think I assumed it was a human being," Jos B says.
What made him feel that he was being watched? Sound? rustling? Jos B..: "I wouldn't remember."
"If you're so into nature, then perhaps you knew whether you were being watched by a man or an animal," the judge tries again. Jos B..: "My feeling was that it was a human being."
Jos B. climbed over the fence in a different place than when he went to look. An easier spot. "The place I went over first had quite a lot of bushes, thorns."
He didn't wonder how #Nicky got there, says Jos B. "Not at the time." He then cycled straight home. A bike ride of half an hour, 3 quarters of an hour. His mother was at home, but he didn't tell her anything.
"I withdrew. Sat down brooding", Jos B says. He thinks it was still morning when he came home. He can't remember if he had lunch with his mother. Or had dinner in the evening.
In the evening he went to cycle around "to think". Only after that he went to the place where he had found #Nicky. Roethof warned: "You know what I said: don't fill things in." Judge: "If you don't remember, just say so."
During his bike ride he had 2 letters with him. "One had to be posted in.......". Long silence. He tries to describe the place in Brunssum where the letter had to go. Near Ollekebolleke where he worked.
After posting the 1st letter "I had decided to turn around and go to the Brunssummerheide". Where he ended up at the posting post office around half past one.
After that I cycled back to Brunssum", says Jos B. "I still had that 2nd letter. But I couldn't find the address and took it back home".
It was the middle of the night, says Jos B. And no, he didn't have to work the next day. "It was holiday."
"There was nothing more I could do. I couldn't do anything more for him," Jos B. says when asked why he didn't report his find immediately."
"You put him right there. You tidy up his clothes, sweep away leaves. It shows that you were concerned about the victim."
"There was no suspicion. So why didn't you report anything?" the judge asks. Jos B.: "I was afraid and panicked." He falls silent again.
"Fear and panic. Not knowing what to do," Jos B. once again describes his state of mind. He continues: "Wanting nothing to do with it. But it has happened. You did find him. A wrong decision, I just said."
It sounds as if he's sobbing and his voice is shaking a bit. How did he cycle home after he was found? Calm? In blind panic? Jos B.: "Like crazy." He doesn't know anymore if he met anyone.
The court appeals to him on what he said months ago: that he would come up with a statement "if everything is understood. By me." What did he mean by that? Jos B.: "I thought the whole investigation went in one direction. Evidence that I had done it."
It was only investigated whether Jos B. had done it, he confirms.
Lawyer Roethof asks Jos B. if what he said about the place where he did took a leak is something he remembers now? Or that he remembered where it was because he was at that place during the viewing?
"My idea is that it was where the thickest tree is now," says Jos B. But he can't remember peeing on that very spot. "By a tree."
How clear are his memories? Roethof asks. Jos B.: "It's to my best memory. And I try to make a logical sequence in it."
Jos B. has argued back what time he must have left home and when he found #Nicky? Jos B.: "There's certainly a margin. It was early in the morning."
It was light when he left, Jos B. says. He didn't turn on the light on his bike.
Is he saying that now because in August at a quarter to 6 in the morning it is always light? Or because he remembers it? Roethof asks. Jos B.: "I think it's a combination of what I think I remember and an attempt to sequence it."
After almost every question Jos B. is silent for a long time. "I don't know what I do remember. A lot of time has gone by. So then I don't know what I really remember, or what I filled in. Or now try to fill in."
The DA wants to show a map. We see it now. The place where the monument for #Nicky now stands, how the roads run around it, where a bench stands and where the spruce forest is where he found the child.
"There. That's about where I've been peeing," says Jos B. when the public prosecutor lets the cross slide over a bend in the road next to the spruce bush.
Why did Jos B. want to leave when he felt he was being watched? Fear crept up on me." What fear? Jos B.: "You're sitting next toh a dead child. And then the fear of being watched creeps up on you."
"I gave in to my fear and left," Jos B. says. But what exactly he was afraid of, he doesn't remember.
Break until a quarter past 1.
BBM