Netherlands Netherlands - Maarsbergen - WhtFem 12-15 - 'Het Heulmeisje' - Poss German - Oct'76

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Bit of hope said:
The case has since expired.
Click to expand...
I am not sure about the statute of limitations in Belgium, I think as of now it is still 20 years. So it would be exipired in terms of punishment for it?

Also, the case above throws me in a loop, the video said, up until 2006 they thought she was identified, until that Lady was located and they exhumed the vicim (from what I understand) That is 30 years after she was found. 30 years of not comparing her with missing persons. After they reopend the case they realized that she was younger than initially thought.
With the age range I imagine her with softer features, maybe skinnier and smiling, that chin is pretty prominent
 
ktemp said:
I am not sure about the statute of limitations in Belgium, I think as of now it is still 20 years. So it would be exipired in terms of punishment for it?

Also, the case above throws me in a loop, the video said, up until 2006 they thought she was identified, until that Lady was located and they exhumed the vicim (from what I understand) That is 30 years after she was found. 30 years of not comparing her with missing persons. After they reopend the case they realized that she was younger than initially thought.
With the age range I imagine her with softer features, maybe skinnier and smiling, that chin is pretty prominent
Click to expand...
I know it's not an official source, but it can become handy in summarizing things.

For a long time it was assumed that the naked, leaf-covered body belonged to an approximately 18-year-old missing girl from a neighboring village. However, that girl, now an adult, reported to the police in 2006.

Based on later research on the growth , the Heul girl would have lived to be 13 to 15 years old, so she was born between 1960 and 1964. Isotope research on hair and teeth showed that the girl probably lived between the Ruhr area and the Eifel during her first seven years of life. Around 1975 the child must have been in the GDR or elsewhere in Eastern Europe. The year prior to her death is assumed to have been in West Germany or the Netherlands . In that year, the girl received particularly one-sided nutrition, which may indicate extreme poverty or a kidnapping.

In 2012, a witness stated that the girl was "thrown away" by two men between the ages of 30 and 40 in 1976, something that would be known to many people.

In 2013 both the Dutch TV program Opsporing Verzocht and the German variant Aktenzeichten XY ungelöst paid attention to the case.

In 2016, the German judiciary gave permission to start a large - scale DNA relationship study. This is a Dutch-German collaboration in which the DNA databases of both countries will be searched. At the end of 2018, the Utrecht police confirmed that the DNA investigation had not yet started. In April 2022 it was announced that the process for a DNA relationship test has started. The research will only take place in the Netherlands, as German law does not allow kinship research. A month later it was announced that the investigation was not given priority and was therefore still at a standstill.

On May 10, 2023, Interpol launched the 'Identify Me' campaign , drawing attention to 22 unidentified female bodies from the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany. Although the case of the Heul girl had already expired <I guess criminal prosecution for her murder>, she was 1 of the 9 Dutch cases in this campaign.

Heulmeisje - Wikipedia

nl.wikipedia.org nl.wikipedia.org
 
Bit of hope said:
In 2016, the German judiciary gave permission to start a large - scale DNA relationship study. This is a Dutch-German collaboration in which the DNA databases of both countries will be searched. At the end of 2018, the Utrecht police confirmed that the DNA investigation had not yet started. In April 2022 it was announced that the process for a DNA relationship test has started. The research will only take place in the Netherlands, as German law does not allow kinship research. A month later it was announced that the investigation was not given priority and was therefore still at a standstill.
Click to expand...
Thanks @Bit of hope , very interesting! Do you know if this is only about familial (like in Amerika, trying to find next of kin) dna? Or if this is about testing her dna against missing girls? That wasn't quite clear to me.
I allways read every jane/john doe in Europe was tested against every missing person in Europe.
I found this interesting article about the requirements for testing DNA in Europe. I saw a lot of the same names in this thread & the other Dutch threads, so maybe an interesting read for some of us here wondering why, sometimes, there's no DNA-check in the European database.

dnadatabank.forensischinstituut.nl

Internationale vergelijking

DNA-profielen die aan bepaalde regels voldoen, worden ter vergelijking naar andere Europese landen gestuurd. Dit gebeurd op basis van het Verdrag van Prüm dat in 2008 via de zogenaamde EU-Prümraadsbesluiten is omgezet in Europese regelgeving. De vergelijking vindt plaats zonder dat op dat moment...
dnadatabank.forensischinstituut.nl dnadatabank.forensischinstituut.nl

DNA profiles that meet certain rules are sent to other European countries for comparison. This is done on the basis of the Prüm Treaty, which was converted into European legislation in 2008 via the so-called EU Prüm Council decisions. The comparison takes place without the personal and/or case data of the DNA profiles being known at that time.

Criteria for DNA profiles
In order to compare DNA profiles between countries, countries must determine their DNA profiles in the same way. In 2001, the Council of the European Union established six DNA markers (loci, excluding sex characteristic) that all Member States must determine in DNA profiles. This is the so-called European Standard Set (ESS). This Set was expanded in 2009 to 11 loci (excluding sex characteristic).

Not all DNA profiles present in a country's DNA database are compared with the DNA profiles of other countries. Only DNA profiles that meet the so-called 'Prüm inclusion rules' are compared with the DNA profiles of other countries. The 'Prüm inclusion rules' state, among other things, that only single DNA profiles of traces and persons may be exchanged and how many DNA characteristics a DNA profile must contain. The aim of these 'Prüm inclusion rules' is to enable a meaningful inter-comparison of the DNA profiles.

Exchange
All EU member states now exchange DNA profiles with each other. Italy started exchanging in 2023.
Click to expand...
International agreements have been made when a match can be discussed, the so-called Prüm 'matching rules'. There is a match if there are completely matching DNA characteristics on at least 6 loci (excluding sex characteristic) between two DNA profiles.

The Dutch DNA database informs the Public Prosecution Service and the police if

The DNA profile of a Dutch trace matches that of a foreign person or trace
The DNA profile of a Dutch (unconvicted) person matches that of a foreign person or trace.
They receive a Prüm match report from the Dutch DNA database, which indicates that there is a match with a foreign DNA profile, which does not contain any personal data. The Public Prosecution Service decides on the basis of this report whether it will request the data associated with the foreign DNA profile via an international request for legal assistance.

In some of the matches, nothing is done from the Netherlands with the match found. This can be for several reasons, including:
Click to expand...
Matches with Dutch convicts
Matches of foreign DNA profiles with Dutch convicts are no longer important for Dutch criminal cases. After all, they have been discontinued.
Matches for which a better profile has now been submitted
If, after a match, a country (e.g. after additional DNA testing) submits an improved DNA profile (with more loci) resulting in a more reliable match, the original match no longer needs to be reported.
No matches
Means that an original match, after additional information was obtained, turned out not to be a true match. It may then concern original 6- or 7-locus matches.
The overviews on the statistics page show what has been done with the international matches and the number of reported matches.

Request data
DNA profiles are internationally compared with each other on the basis of the so-called hit-no-hit principle. This means that the comparison takes place without the personal and/or case data of the DNA profiles being known at that time. If a match is found, countries involved in the match can request the personal and/or case data associated with the DNA profile from each other; this is done on the basis of a code that belongs to the DNA profile. Because DNA information is regarded as Justice information in the Netherlands, incoming and outgoing information requests based on the EU Prüm Council decisions are processed as international requests for legal assistance.

All international legal assistance requests are processed by one of the International Legal Assistance Centers (IRC). Outgoing requests for legal assistance go through the regional IRCs, while incoming requests for legal assistance are processed by the National International Legal Assistance Center (LIRC). In the event of an incoming request for legal assistance, the LIRC asks the manager of the DNA database to verify the match and to provide the personal and/or case data on the basis of the code associated with the Dutch DNA profile. As a result, the LIRC is able to check the incoming request for mutual assistance and the requested data is provided to the requesting country if the result of the test is positive. This procedure is provided to every new country with which the Netherlands will exchange DNA profiles in the context of EU Prüm Council decisions.
Click to expand...
 

OM starts DNA relationship research into the identity of Heul girl.​


UTRECHT - The Public Prosecution Service is starting a DNA relationship test to determine the identity of the Heul girl. The OM confirmed this on Monday after reporting from RTV Utrecht. The OM wants to search the database for convicted persons of the Netherlands Forensic Institute (NFI) for people who may be related to her and has submitted a request to the institute for this.

" A previous search of the missing persons database turned up nothing. No persons are called up in the new study, but the DNA is compared with DNA profiles from the existing database, says a spokesperson for the Public Prosecution Service. At the beginning of July, the examining magistrate already approved the request from the Public Prosecution Service for the investigation.

A is not yet known when there will be more clarity. "Depending on the results of the relationship research in the DNA database for criminal cases, new investigative acts may be carried out," the spokesperson told RTV Utrecht"

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/536...antschapsonderzoek-naar-identiteit-heulmeisje
 
Just a question to fellow posters on this thread:
Does anyone have access, to AD or Brabants Dagblad?

Both articles are behind a paywall
Oud-rechercheurs over de 50 jaar oude, onopgeloste zaak van het Heulmeisje: ‘Het wás opgelost’

Oud-rechercheurs over de 50 jaar oude, onopgeloste zaak van het Heulmeisje: ‘Het wás opgelost’

I think it's about, this suspect
Post in thread 'Netherlands - Maarsbergen - WhtFem 12-15 - 'Het Heulmeisje' - Poss German - Oct'76' https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/netherlands-maarsbergen-whtfem-12-15-het-heulmeisje-poss-german-oct76.643179/post-14178207

(Quick translation of the old newsclipping)

Suspected of
old murder case
commits suicide
UTRECHT/GROENLO (ANP)-De
The 73-year-old suspect in the
1975 murder of Bilthoven student
Monique Jacobse ended his life
on Monday in his hometown of
Groenlo. A spokesperson for the
Achterhoek police district confirmed
this yesterday.
The man's death puts an end to
the judicial preliminary investigation
into his involvement in the
murder of the then 18-year-old girl.
According to the Utrecht police,
responsible for the investigation,
the right to criminal proceedings
expires automatically if a
suspect dies.
73-year-old A.A. suddenly came
into the picture this summer after
he allegedly spoke out to family
members about the old murder
case. His wife then reportedly tipped
off the police. In September, the
man was detained for a number of
days until the court chamber released
him. The police say that the elderly
suspect has confessed to his crime. Full-
according to his lawyer he withdraw his confession.
 
worldwatcher said:
Just a question to fellow posters on this thread:
Does anyone have access, to AD or Brabants Dagblad?

Both articles are behind a paywall
Oud-rechercheurs over de 50 jaar oude, onopgeloste zaak van het Heulmeisje: ‘Het wás opgelost’

Oud-rechercheurs over de 50 jaar oude, onopgeloste zaak van het Heulmeisje: ‘Het wás opgelost’

I think it's about, this suspect
Post in thread 'Netherlands - Maarsbergen - WhtFem 12-15 - 'Het Heulmeisje' - Poss German - Oct'76' https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/netherlands-maarsbergen-whtfem-12-15-het-heulmeisje-poss-german-oct76.643179/post-14178207

(Quick translation of the old newsclipping)

Suspected of
old murder case
commits suicide
UTRECHT/GROENLO (ANP)-De
The 73-year-old suspect in the
1975 murder of Bilthoven student
Monique Jacobse ended his life
on Monday in his hometown of
Groenlo. A spokesperson for the
Achterhoek police district confirmed
this yesterday.
The man's death puts an end to
the judicial preliminary investigation
into his involvement in the
murder of the then 18-year-old girl.
According to the Utrecht police,
responsible for the investigation,
the right to criminal proceedings
expires automatically if a
suspect dies.
73-year-old A.A. suddenly came
into the picture this summer after
he allegedly spoke out to family
members about the old murder
case. His wife then reportedly tipped
off the police. In September, the
man was detained for a number of
days until the court chamber released
him. The police say that the elderly
suspect has confessed to his crime. Full-
according to his lawyer he withdraw his confessi
Click to expand...
Sorry, can't help you.
 
worldwatcher said:
Just a question to fellow posters on this thread:
Does anyone have access, to AD or Brabants Dagblad?

Both articles are behind a paywall
Oud-rechercheurs over de 50 jaar oude, onopgeloste zaak van het Heulmeisje: ‘Het wás opgelost’

Oud-rechercheurs over de 50 jaar oude, onopgeloste zaak van het Heulmeisje: ‘Het wás opgelost’

I think it's about, this suspect
Post in thread 'Netherlands - Maarsbergen - WhtFem 12-15 - 'Het Heulmeisje' - Poss German - Oct'76' https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/netherlands-maarsbergen-whtfem-12-15-het-heulmeisje-poss-german-oct76.643179/post-14178207

(Quick translation of the old newsclipping)

Suspected of
old murder case
commits suicide
UTRECHT/GROENLO (ANP)-De
The 73-year-old suspect in the
1975 murder of Bilthoven student
Monique Jacobse ended his life
on Monday in his hometown of
Groenlo. A spokesperson for the
Achterhoek police district confirmed
this yesterday.
The man's death puts an end to
the judicial preliminary investigation
into his involvement in the
murder of the then 18-year-old girl.
According to the Utrecht police,
responsible for the investigation,
the right to criminal proceedings
expires automatically if a
suspect dies.
73-year-old A.A. suddenly came
into the picture this summer after
he allegedly spoke out to family
members about the old murder
case. His wife then reportedly tipped
off the police. In September, the
man was detained for a number of
days until the court chamber released
him. The police say that the elderly
suspect has confessed to his crime. Full-
according to his lawyer he withdraw his confession.
Click to expand...
Heh? Monique Jacobse is not dead, she was found alive after decades.
He may be responsible for the murder of heulmeisje, but not Monique.
 
Susikatze said:
Heh? Monique Jacobse is not dead, she was found alive after decades.
He may be responsible for the murder of heulmeisje, but not Monique.
Click to expand...

What I find interesting is she indeed moved to another country. And thankfully was alive. There weren't the records like we have today to trace people. I wonder how many UID are in the same situation. No one is looking for them in other countries.
 
Susikatze said:
Heh? Monique Jacobse is not dead, she was found alive after decades.
He may be responsible for the murder of heulmeisje, but not Monique.
Click to expand...
Yes sorry about that, it was a translation from an old newsclipping, that I posted on page 2 in this thread.
worldwatcher said:
To be honest...I am confused about the year she was found...first I thought that a Dutch famous criminal reporter Peter R. de Vries had the year wrong,when I googled if he had written about the case.All I could find was a tweet about it with the mention of the year 1975

Today I tried to digg up old newspaper articles and came across one today that also wrote about the year 1975
The article was about a 73 year suspect who commited suicide in 1994 (when they still thought that the remains of the young girl was Monique Jacobse)

Will translate the article asap
Its too bad that the region where she was found doesnt have the archive online (yet)View attachment 136794
Click to expand...
 
Bit of hope said:
Sorry, can't help you.
Click to expand...
Here is a link, that I found, it's a website from former Dutch reporters (Zembla, NOS, etc)

"Perpetrator
It wasn't until August 31, 1994, that a 73-year-old man named Harry confessed his actions to his wife. He points out the place where the girl had been lying and becomes emotional. He allegedly had a date with her, after which she wanted to rob him. A struggle then followed in which she died.

But he later retracts his confession and commits suicide before his trial. Detectives still consider this a confession. Forensic specialists believe they have identified Monique Jacobse.

Excavated
The case seems closed until Monique Jacobse returns to her family in 2006. She is still alive. In October 2006, the Heul girl, named after the parking lot near the spot in the forest where she was found, was excavated again. She is said to be between 12 and 15 years old and of German descent. Detectives at the time are convinced who the perpetrator was, Harry. But who the girl is remains a question mark for now."

‘Nieuw forensisch onderzoek naar het Heulmeisje’

Odd confession, if you ask me, it is know that she was 12- 15 yrs old, att, malnourished (prior to her death) cause of dead couldn't be determined, her naked body was badly decomposed and how did they get in contact for a date? Imo, she was supervised, att.
 
worldwatcher said:
Here is a link, that I found, it's a website from former Dutch reporters (Zembla, NOS, etc)

"Perpetrator
It wasn't until August 31, 1994, that a 73-year-old man named Harry confessed his actions to his wife. He points out the place where the girl had been lying and becomes emotional. He allegedly had a date with her, after which she wanted to rob him. A struggle then followed in which she died.

But he later retracts his confession and commits suicide before his trial. Detectives still consider this a confession. Forensic specialists believe they have identified Monique Jacobse.

Excavated
The case seems closed until Monique Jacobse returns to her family in 2006. She is still alive. In October 2006, the Heul girl, named after the parking lot near the spot in the forest where she was found, was excavated again. She is said to be between 12 and 15 years old and of German descent. Detectives at the time are convinced who the perpetrator was, Harry. But who the girl is remains a question mark for now."

‘Nieuw forensisch onderzoek naar het Heulmeisje’

Odd confession, if you ask me, it is know that she was 12- 15 yrs old, att, malnourished (prior to her death) cause of dead couldn't be determined, her naked body was badly decomposed and how did they get in contact for a date? Imo, she was supervised, att.
Click to expand...
They did isotopes to determine she came from Germany and then moved to Eastern Europe, which is very inaccurate. Her being malnourished is probably correct.
 
ZaZara said:
Today is a good day.

The Dutch Court has approved the use of private DNA databases for two pilot cases.

It is expected that more cases will follow in time.

Fingers crossed for our Heulmeisje!

Thread here:

Legal Breakthrough: Dutch Court approves use of private DNA databases
Click to expand...

Today is another good day. :)

The Netherlands finally have a new governement and among the plans is this:

The use of genealogical DNA databases is encouraged in 'cold cases'.

Fingers crossed for our Heulmeisje!

Legal Breakthrough: Dutch Court approves use of private DNA databases
 
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