New Developments and General Discussion, 08/10/2012

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I personally think it is as simple as it seems. They made a deal for Mickey's body. LWOP if he pleads guilty to both murders.
 
OceanMetTheSky said:
To be honest, I wonder if she was originally in ONE of the three "graves" that were investigated before being moved.

And if that is true, I think two separate people were in the other two holes.

How easy would it be to hide a body like he did and never find it? He could have many more victims next to many other grave yards because he was fascinated with them and it would be hard to detect since cadaver dogs would pick up on those already in the graveyard.
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Hmmm... My thoughts on the other graves are that they were future victims. I wonder if they were actually graves or just appeared to be graves.
 
OceanMetTheSky said:
Well, even if BSL did make a plea bargain for life without parole for Mickey, that isn't going to do anything regarding the first degree charge against him for Lisa Pate alone. He can't really offer up a bargain regarding that since they already have her body.

So i don't know what his reasoning was, but it sure wasn't compassion and the DP is still in the table for Lisa, so.
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I don't think he would make such a deal; what would be the point? Unless he is convinced that the evidence is not strong enough in Lisa's case. I think he would only give up Mickey's location for a guarantee of LWOP for both women.

Now that both women have been found, I hate to see money wasted on a trial, if LWOP could be guaranteed and covered both victims. He isn't worth the millions it would cost. The only drawback is the victims impact statements-I wonder if they would be allowed to present these at the plea? The families deserve that opportunity; some families wait for that moment.
 
I have a question for anyone who might know.

IF he signed a plea deal, is that it? Or does he still have to go before the judge to finalize it? I know there would be no sentencing, so no need for that hearing.

Also, could he at any point change his mind once it has been signed?

(ok, a few questions)
 
CajunStrong said:
And, if he claims that he hit her and she died immediately as a result of the accident, that would not constitute kidnapping. It would be vehicular manslaughter. Then there would be other charges for concealing the accident and body.

Now, I do not believe for a second that this is what really happened of course!! I can just see him saying this.

And, there are many cases in the books where someone has hit and killed someone and concealed the accident and body. They are not charged with first degree murder.
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Would he have to prove she died before he took her and how would he do that?

ETA: with his history he hasn't got a chance!
 
CajunCoDe said:
Hmmm... My thoughts on the other graves are that they were future victims. I wonder if they were actually graves or just appeared to be graves.
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I am wondering if he had some type of digging equipment he was practicing using on that farmer's land where the three "graves" were found, and then used it to dig the actual grave at the cemetery. I can't imagine how he was able to dig a deep grave with just a shovel with a badly injured finger.

ETA Although it did look like a shovel might be in one of those evidence bags.
 
cluciano63 said:
I don't think he would make such a deal; what would be the point? Unless he is convinced that the evidence is not strong enough in Lisa's case. I think he would only give up Mickey's location for a guarantee of LWOP for both women.

Now that both women have been found, I hate to see money wasted on a trial, if LWOP could be guaranteed and covered both victims. He isn't worth the millions it would cost. The only drawback is the victims impact statements-I wonder if they would be allowed to present these at the plea? The families deserve that opportunity; some families wait for that moment.
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There would still be a sentencing, no?
 
I would hope for the family's sake that the cause of death is found to be an accident. But...
 
If he has a plea in place, he will still have to appear in court to enter his plea. I know in the case of BTK, he had to describe each murder. Also I do believe, now that I think of it, that the victims' families' were allowed a chance to get up and make their statements in this setting. Also, whatever he claims, has to match up with the evidence. He can't for example say she got into his truck willingly if they can prove otherwise, or say she was killed by the truck hitting her, if it is found she was stabbed, etc...
 
CajunStrong said:
And, if he claims that he hit her and she died immediately as a result of the accident, that would not constitute kidnapping. It would be vehicular manslaughter. Then there would be other charges for concealing the accident and body.

Now, I do not believe for a second that this is what really happened of course!! I can just see him saying this.

And, there are many cases in the books where someone has hit and killed someone and concealed the accident and body. They are not charged with first degree murder.
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And you know what I say to him saying she died from the accident...Boy, you full of S--t!!! Those roads where all those surveillance pics were taken has a speed limit of 25 mph or maybe 30 mph and that's not going to kill someone... Unless he ran over her whole body which I guess we will find out soon after they examine her body.
 
WhatsupAZ said:
There would still be a sentencing, no?
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I don't think there would be a sentencing. His sentence is a part of the plea deal. It's an exchange. I'll give you this, if you give me that. There is no reason for sentencing because, as much as they might like to, the DA can't renege on the deal either.
 
CajunCoDe said:
I don't think there would be a sentencing. His sentence is a part of the plea deal. It's an exchange. I'll give you this, if you give me that. There is no reason for sentencing because, as much as they might like to, the DA can't renege on the deal either.
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But I do believe they do this formally in court. I've never seen a case where they didn't, anyway. If everyone sticks to their part of the agreement, the judge issues the sentence agreed upon.
 
Just want to give a shout-out to my fellow WS sleuthers. We just made the local news here in Houston. One of the local stations did a segment on possible connections between Mickey's and Ali Lowitzer's disappearances. (didn't realize there was a DWT in that case, also)

Anyway, they went on to say that a PI was following tips that had been generated on an internet website, and they showed a screenshot from WS. (it was the actual post from the PI with the Shrek avatar)

Just wanted to let all you dedicated sleuthers know that what you're all doing here really does matter. Woot!!
 
Bravo said:
If Mickey was found with her clothing on I wonder if his plan was foiled by her fighting back and causing him injuries. She may have been assaulted in a way that he didn't get that far. Far enough to remove her clothing. She fought and he killed her prematurely. Premature to his intended plan?
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It seems like many of the typical homicides that started as a sexual assault the victims are found with their clothing on.

When their bodies are left at the scene of the actual murder, you will often more than not see that they are found clothed from the waist up and often with their shirts pulled up. They are left out in the open or partially buried close to the surface. Their other clothing and personal items are nearby. They are also often tied up or strangled with their own under garments.

When victims are fully buried they are often fully clothed. There are plenty of cases where the attacker asks the victim to redress before the actual murder takes place.

I am not aware of a lot of cases where a victim is completely naked although there are some. Those are usually the ones where the attacker poses the victim in an area where they can be found.

Most victims are killed within a couple hours of the abduction and there is really no reason to remove all the clothing and jewelry.
 
jennapuppy said:
Just want to give a shout-out to my fellow WS sleuthers. We just made the local news here in Houston. One of the local stations did a segment on possible connections between Mickey's and Ali Lowitzer's disappearances. (didn't realize there was a DWT in that case, also)

Anyway, they went on to say that a PI was following tips that had been generated on an internet website, and they showed a screenshot from WS. (it was the actual post from the PI with the Shrek avatar)

Just wanted to let all you dedicated sleuthers know that what you're all doing here really does matter. Woot!!
Click to expand...
Please also post this on the "more victims" link:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179400&page=8
for other WS'ers who might not see it here.
 
If BSL claimed it was an accident and it was(which I doubt) how did he really get his wounds.?..I know it wasn't from the gold tooth #24!!!!
 
Just an additional thought to ponder - a what if. Say BSL is given a LWOP deal for giving up MS's location. Also say... and this is JMO only.... that prosecutors strongly believe (based on some evidence they have in hand) that they have BSL on additional victims. Prosecutors would have possibly come to a deal easier to get him to give it up on MS.
 
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