"NEW Facts to Know About Caylee Marie!"

[NancyT]

I don't believe I said it was 'impossible' for Caylee to count to 45, I just don't believe it with HER (and yes, I was a bit insulted with the post that quoted me). The reason why is that I highly doubt that her mother spent the amount of time working with her that would be necessary to help a two year old learn that much. That would take quite a bit of work and dedication and patience and I don't think KC spent a whole heck of a lot of quality time like that with Caylee (remember the comment about how the baby would have to text her mother if she needed her diaper changed?). I think it's awesome that there are some children that can count to 45 at 2. But if you watched the videos of Caylee her verbal skills were about average for her age so if that is the case, how could she 'really' speak that well in a language that is not her native tongue? I just find it highly doubtful.

As far as potty training goes, there are a lot of parents who believe in not pushing their children to potty train before they are truly ready. Some children are 'ready' at 18 months some not until much older. So the almost potty training issue didn't strike me as odd at all, it actually made me think that the family was somewhat normal in that area.

This is sort of where you and I agree, but tend to disagree when the potty training issue enters the equation. Potty training takes consistency. I have no doubt that Cindy would have put the effort out and maybe on a lesser scale, George even, but when Cindy and George were at work, if Casey didn't follow thru, all George and Cindy's work could have went by the wayside. I'm sure they were probably very frustrated with Casey on many levels (and I believe potty training could likely have been at issue with them).

I most certainly was never questioning George and Cindy's love for Caylee. I have no doubt that they totally adored her. I also have no doubt they'd have tossed Casey under the bus if it meant they could have Caylee back. Since that's not possible, I really think now they just don't want to lose them both.

 

[NancyT]

IMO, this new revelation doesn't really tell us much new about Caylee. If we can't rely on the honesty of the fact-giver, we surely can't rely on the facts.

It does, however, reaffirm the love that CA and GA have for Caylee. . . and makes me confused about why, with GA being former LE, they didn't simply request that LE do a "welfare check" on Caylee shortly after KC took her from their home. My experience with these checks is that LE is very cooperative, asks only the most basic questions, and is quite unobtrusive. GA would have been familiar with this option and I just can't get over why he didn't use it.

They didn't even know where she was living, did they? Where was she going to send LE to check up on them? She picked Amy up from the Florida Mall so that she could show them where Tony lived. This was only after finding Amy's phone number in the car once it was picked up.

Till that time, I think it's pretty apparent that Cindy believed Casey was purposely withholding Caylee to spite her.

 

[insatiable]

I'm surprised this counting to 45 in spanish thing is still an issue. A member here posted that her daughter, who is close to Caylees age, can do this. Another member posted that she was reading when she was around this age. I highly doubt these members are lying about it.
Could Caylee really do it? Who knows.

 

[tiredofthis]

Thank you, my daughter was potty trained at 18 months, fully. My older son is going to ne 3 in February and we are nowhere potty there with his potty training, getting close to getting ready but that's it. Thank you for reaffirming that an unpottytrained 2 year old is not a sign of neglect of bad parenting. :clap:

Not a sign of bad parenting at all. I use to joke that I was going to have to pack a bag of diapers for my son to take to kindergarten. He was mostly potty trained, but sometimes had accidents when he didn't want to stop playing.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Does it really matter if Caylee was potty trained or if she could count to 45 in any language? It doesn't matter if other children do these things at a certain age either. (This isn't a competition.)

I don't see any of it being applicable to this case unless the perp went into a rage because Caylee had an accident in her pants and was killed over it.

 

[Talison]

Sorry, Wasn't trying to be harsh or single anyone out. I'm am only stating what Ive seen in this thread, which is that some of the people are saying it's impossible or very unlikely that Caylee could do it because their kid can't do it, obviously not in those exact words but that is basicly what is being said. It is very likely and possible that a child of that age can do that. I don't think my comment was uncalled for at all. I apologise if I offened anyone.

Wow, you're just determined to insult the children of anyone who doesn't believe the counting fact, aren't you? Maybe the people with that opinion don't have stupid children, maybe they just know a thing or two about child development, and it seems to me as if you don't. You state that it's "very likely and possible that a child of that age can do that," which is just not true. I'm not saying it's impossible for a child of that age to count that high, but the vast majority of children that age cannot. It's not a developmentally appropriate skill at that age. Counting to 45 is something that 5 year olds do, not something 2 year olds do, generally speaking. I've taken child development classes, and I've taught pre-school age kids... so why do you assume that my opinion comes ONLY from my own 4 children? I honestly don't even remember at what age which of my children could do what, to be able to base an opinion on that!

The big reason I don't believe Caylee could count is because we have it on the word of not just one, but TWO KNOWN LIARS. Casey bragged about it to her friends (per Clint's Greta interview), and now Cindy is bragging about it. Cindy and Casey are both known for bragging about made-up accomplishments, so why insist on believing that anything they claim about Caylee is true? It really irritates me that both women seem intent on presenting Caylee as nothing more than a superficial caricature of who she really was, which is why the counting fact annoys me so. I feel like they see Caylee as a possession to show off. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it looks to me.

 

[Talison]

What really bothers me about this recent release is that everything that was said could apply to almost any 3 year old. We know that our little ones are quite unique. If I were Cindy (god forbid!), I would have listed everything that made Caylee DIFFERENT. My Grandson (3 in Feb) says "eleventeen" when he counts or calls peas, "green balls" and refers to all fish he eats as "Nemo." He has a tiny scar on his right ankle about the size and shape of a tic-tac. He has a faint scattering of freckles over his nose. He speaks in complete sentences and asks questions like a little adult, "How was your day today, YaYa? What was your favorite part of the day, YaYa?" He can count in English, Spanish and Mandarin. He understands primary and secondary colors and can identify complex shapes such as pentagon, hexagon, octagon, etc. He can sound out the alphabet to read simple words. He does not like his food hot, he prefers his food at room temperature. He is allergic to milk. He gets a scaly rash in his ears. He is afraid of dogs but loves rabbits. He can identify thyme, parsley, cilantro, rosemary, mint, sage and chives by sight and taste (we pick herbs together). He loves Ella Fitzgerald and R&B. And no, he's not potty trained yet. Cindy's post was as if she knew nothing about Caylee.

I just have to tell you that your grandson sounds adorable! I love the unique things you listed about him.

And I completely agree that Cindy's post was as if she knew nothing about Caylee. IMO, George is the only one in the family that has talked about Caylee as if she was a real little girl.

 

[insatiable]

Wow, you're just determined to insult the children of anyone who doesn't believe the counting fact, aren't you? Maybe the people with that opinion don't have stupid children, maybe they just know a thing or two about child development, and it seems to me as if you don't. You state that it's "very likely and possible that a child of that age can do that," which is just not true. I'm not saying it's impossible for a child of that age to count that high, but the vast majority of children that age cannot. It's not a developmentally appropriate skill at that age. Counting to 45 is something that 5 year olds do, not something 2 year olds do, generally speaking. I've taken child development classes, and I've taught pre-school age kids... so why do you assume that my opinion comes ONLY from my own 4 children? I honestly don't even remember at what age which of my children could do what, to be able to base an opinion on that!

whoa
I'm not trying to insult anyone.....but it seems as though you are. I already apologised in the comment you just quoted of mine.
BTW I still disagree with what you just said.

 

[ma2patrick]

Okay, I seriously doubt she counts to 45 in Spanish or English for that matter. My daughter is about a month older than Caylee and we have had the same nanny from Mexico since she was born. She speaks fluent and almost perfect grammatically correct Spanish and I tell you this...she can NOT count to 45 or anywhere close.

Actually, my son could count to about 60 in Spanish at that age, and that was because I was taking Spanish in College. It's not unheard of for a child that age to be able to count to whatever number in Spanish if they are exposed to it. (I think they are trying to tie her to a spanish nanny, oh, say, a Zenaida?)

 

[Talison]

whoa
I'm not trying to insult anyone.....but it seems as though you are. I already apologised in the comment you just quoted of mine.
BTW I still disagree with what you just said.

I don't see how you can disagree with known fact. Child development stages aren't my personal opinion, for goodness sake.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_development_stages
Look down to age 4, where it lists counting to 20 under cognitive development.
Look down to age 5, where it lists counting past 20 under cognitive development.
Do you see either one under age 2 or age 3? No.

http://www.pbs.org/wholechild/abc/cognitive.html
See "Count to 5" listed under 4-5 years? Do you see any counting skills listed under 2-3 years? No.

http://www.pbs.org/wholechild/abc/cognitive.html
See "count to 3" listed under 3.5-4 years? See "can count to 10" listed under 4.5-5 years?

http://www.education.pitt.edu/ocd/publications/fosterparent/27758_ocd_DM_3-5.pdf
"They can count up to 20" is listed under 4 years and "can count from at least 1-20 and identify numerals 1-10" is listed under 5 years.

How many links would you like? Because there are plenty of them out there. You're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with the professionals. Just google "child development milestones" and see for yourself if you still don't believe me. Again, not saying that it's impossible, just that it's very unlikely.

 

[insatiable]

I don't see how you can disagree with known fact.

Where did I do that? Because I said it was very likely and possible??? I was stating my opinion from my own exp.

Atleast 4 WS members who posted have children that CAN do it or do something similar. IMO if 4 members on this thread have kids that can do it it is not very uncommon or not very unlikely that it can happen. You are totally blowing my posts way out of proportion....I was simply stating that it is POSSIBLE that Caylee could have done this. Geesh

 

[TURBOTHINK]

My daughter just turned 3 a week ago and is 42 inches tall and weighs 43 lbs, Yes she is off the charts but its possible

Here is is with my 15 year old, we laugh she is going to be taller than him soon....... lol poor kid

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=94480&l=8dc36&id=1499522264

My youngest son is 12 and he is less than an inch from 6ft. and he was also tall for his age at 3. He has always been off the charts in height and weight because of his large bone structure. They say he will be about 6'6 at maturity. One adult son is only 5'11, one daughter barely 5'3, one daughter 5' 11", so kids in the same family do have different growth patterns.

Three of them were very verbal at two. We have videos of my youngest reciting the Pledge of Allegiance at 2 1/2, and my middle son hardly said a word by that age. When he talked he spoke in complete sentences, with no baby talk. They are all different.

All of mine were potty trained before age two, but that was because I was willing to spend the time it takes to help them, so I am not sure who was trained them or me. LOL -

 

[Meemom]

What really bothers me about this recent release is that everything that was said could apply to almost any 3 year old. We know that our little ones are quite unique. If I were Cindy (god forbid!), I would have listed everything that made Caylee DIFFERENT. My Grandson (3 in Feb) says "eleventeen" when he counts or calls peas, "green balls" and refers to all fish he eats as "Nemo." He has a tiny scar on his right ankle about the size and shape of a tic-tac. He has a faint scattering of freckles over his nose. He speaks in complete sentences and asks questions like a little adult, "How was your day today, YaYa? What was your favorite part of the day, YaYa?" He can count in English, Spanish and Mandarin. He understands primary and secondary colors and can identify complex shapes such as pentagon, hexagon, octagon, etc. He can sound out the alphabet to read simple words. He does not like his food hot, he prefers his food at room temperature. He is allergic to milk. He gets a scaly rash in his ears. He is afraid of dogs but loves rabbits. He can identify thyme, parsley, cilantro, rosemary, mint, sage and chives by sight and taste (we pick herbs together). He loves Ella Fitzgerald and R&B. And no, he's not potty trained yet. Cindy's post was as if she knew nothing about Caylee.

ITA- any parent or grandparent that spends any extended amount of time with a child usually has a whole lot of unique "kidisms". My 4 yo gd (very, very verbal) calls an elevator an alligator, spells and & recognizes her name, can identify her "cranium" and "filanges" (which I can't spell). My 2 yo gd (not very verbal) will take your hand and lead you to what she wants, will grab her backpack and head for the door at the mention of "bye-byes" or "school" (daycare), imitates the sound of a cat meowing to perfection, and has no fear of climbing on anything (including climbing up a 5 ft tall cat playhouse tower!)

I think CA edited herself on her list to, as usual, make herself and her "perfect" family look best, way too generalized

 

[not_my_kids]

Maybe there was nothing special to list about Caylee because no one really knew her. With my son up until about 8 months ago, there would have been nothing unique to list about him. He was a silent child with no preferences at all for anything. Now, on the other hand, the exact thing that made him completely unidentifiable has now made him very very unique. But everything that is so different about my son are things that you only know if you are very close to him on a regular basis. He loves the alpabet song, but only knows 7 letters, so it gets a bit repetitive. He gets cats and dogs confused. He loves water, rubs the back of his head when he is tired and tries to be the little daddy to younger kids. But, these are things that you aren't going to pick up on in the first couple of days you are around him. It takes time.
Maybe there was no way to give unique statements about Caylee because she hasn't started to become her own individual person or because there is no one to notice the unique-ness. Which is so incredibly sad.

 

[Laece]

Where did I do that? Because I said it was very likely and possible??? I was stating my opinion from my own exp.

Atleast 4 WS members who posted have children that CAN do it or do something similar. IMO if 4 members on this thread have kids that can do it it is not very uncommon or not very unlikely that it can happen. You are totally blowing my posts way out of proportion....I was simply stating that it is POSSIBLE that Caylee could have done this. Geesh

agreed. not to mention, the facts stated about child development may be 'known' but certainly not cold, hard 'fact'.

listed stages of childhood development are basics, they are 'typical' guidelines to follow in order to learn what may be expected from your own children or plan a curriculum. when planning a curriculum, individual needs also need to be accounted for and the curriculum adjusted to meet challenges of more or less advanced children. also, it does not mean that children cannot learn what they are taught if the instruction does not fall into the range recommended for each age group. they are by no means 'fact' for every child at each age listed. they are points from which to start.

in any case, this is the last i will post on the spanish capabilties of a dead little girl.

no one is putting down others' children who are not able to speak spanish numbers. no one here knows whether caylee could speak spanish or swahili, and that is a fact. so to insist on the 'fact' that she didn't, instead of admitting it's a possibility that she did, is just pointless, not to mention, i don't know, a little on the crass side to insist on being so critical of this little girl just to make your point known. jmo.

p.s. and not my kids, your signature makes me want to pee my pants whenever i see it. too funny.

 

[NancyT]

Does it really matter if Caylee was potty trained or if she could count to 45 in any language? It doesn't matter if other children do these things at a certain age either. (This isn't a competition.)

I don't see any of it being applicable to this case unless the perp went into a rage because Caylee had an accident in her pants and was killed over it.

I agree that these issues are likely not the root of why Casey killed her daughter, but I do think they go to the heart of how Casey may have interacted with her daughter.

I mean, how can one send that many text messages, sleep an average of 3 hours a day, keep up the lies and charades, and still be the mother that she should have been? It's all relevant, IMO. Pictures only tell a fraction of the story and pictures tend to be a bit, showy. They certainly don't delve to the heart of the relationship.

And for the record, I never stated that if your child is not potty trained by 2 years of age that you're a bad parent. I know some read it as such, but I never meant to imply any such thing. When I made my comments about THIS case and THIS case only, I have a little more background to form my opinion than I do with making broad statements and painting every situation out there with the same broad brush.

 

[Gaia713]

I agree that these issues are likely not the root of why Casey killed her daughter, but I do think they go to the heart of how Casey may have interacted with her daughter.

I mean, how can one send that many text messages, sleep an average of 3 hours a day, keep up the lies and charades, and still be the mother that she should have been? It's all relevant, IMO. Pictures only tell a fraction of the story and pictures tend to be a bit, showy. They certainly don't delve to the heart of the relationship.

And for the record, I never stated that if your child is not potty trained by 2 years of age that you're a bad parent. I know some read it as such, but I never meant to imply any such thing. When I made my comments about THIS case and THIS case only, I have a little more background to form my opinion than I do with making broad statements and painting every situation out there with the same broad brush.

I still think it odd that a child of three wasn't potty trained. I realize that potty training is an individual situation depending on child's physical and mental development. I have a problem with parents who claim things are are VERY unusual in children. I see NOTHING that makes Caylee a genius so that she could county to 45, I am saying that a child of her age does not usually have the cognitive ability to actually count - they miay be abke to mimic, but I doubt there was actual COUNTING going on.

 

[not_my_kids]

I still think it odd that a child of three wasn't potty trained. I realize that potty training is an individual situation depending on child's physical and mental development. I have a problem with parents who claim things are are VERY unusual in children. I see NOTHING that makes Caylee a genius so that she could county to 45, I am saying that a child of her age does not usually have the cognitive ability to actually count - they miay be abke to mimic, but I doubt there was actual COUNTING going on.

My almost three year old has the cognitive ability to count independently to 10 and mimic past that. Course then again, he attende Early Intervention 3 days a week, is worked with constantly and has never spent more than 4 hours away from his parents.

 

[kpalma715]

Okay, I seriously doubt she counts to 45 in Spanish or English for that matter. My daughter is about a month older than Caylee and we have had the same nanny from Mexico since she was born. She speaks fluent and almost perfect grammatically correct Spanish and I tell you this...she can NOT count to 45 or anywhere close.

I agree, my son just turned 3 and could count to 20 in spanish. His daycare teacher is shocked he can even go past 10 in spanish.

 

[kpalma715]

I'm sure this post is going to open this thread to a huge can of worms, but Caylee was almost 3 and not potty trained. I know there are children out there who are also not trained by this age, but the vast majority are. My son was slow at almost everything, but even he was trained at 2.

I'm certainly not attacking a child and/or the victim. I'm just of the belief that no one really seemed to work with her. I know people live hectic lives these days, but my husband and I truly lived the rat race when my children were young. My daughter trained by a year and a half, and my son 2 years. Of course, it took a lot of patience and a lot of work to accomplish the task. We were wore out from working too much, but we still found the time.

I'm sure I'm going to be ripped a new one, but this is really how I see it.

My son is 3 years old and will not potty train. He is extremely smart. He knows all his shapes, colors, number, ABC's, spells his name. The potty freaks him out. My pediatircian said all kids are different and its not really a cause of concern unless they are over 3 1/2 - 4. He is totally ready, but he wont really go on his own unless you force him. Me, my husband, and his teacher always try with him, but he is very stubborn. (like his dad,LOL...)