New "I'm not convinced" thread

[ncnative]

But this wasn't an issue in the separation agreement between BC and NC. In that agreement, he would get part time custody. So why is it an issue since she is gone?

NCSU95, more has crawled out from the cracks and crevices since that divorce draft was made.

As to Brad's escapades with women outside his marriage, I believe that the custody hearing will consider what kind of role model Brad is, in regard to having two girls who will notice everything he does that they see. Will he be having closet sex or any other kind with (X,Y,Z woman) while the girls are in the home?

Might the girls ask, "Daddy, why are you so nice and kissy to (X,Y,Z woman) but you were always fussy with mommy and didn't give her a Christmas present?" How many women might these girls be exposed to in their childhood, if they lived with Brad? I doubt he could attract many if he is the murderer. But then, there won't be any custody issue.

How will Brad handle the questions that the girls will bring home: "Jimmy said you killed our mommy, so he can't come over to play cause his mommy said so."

If Brad gets the girls, will his mom be their caretaker while he's at work? Hmmm. Scary, from what we've read about her. Not that we actually know.

 

[SleuthyGal]

But this wasn't an issue in the separation agreement between BC and NC. In that agreement, he would get part time custody. So why is it an issue since she is gone?

1. The prior separation agreement had never been signed. According to Brad's depo he said "he and Nancy were not separated."

2. The full details of the tryst may not have been known, only that he and HM had an 'affair.' And ditto the alleged affair with Celine in France.

3. This is a different custody situation with different parties, and now including the facts of the homicide of an intimate partner--this did not exist when Nancy was seeking formal separation.

4. Allegations of abuse (towards Nancy and possibly one or both kids) are part of this custody fight.

5. Whole 'nother ballgame now.

 

[ncnative]

Jinx, SG!

 

[ncsu95]

If OJ and Jason Young got to keep custody, then Brad should too. :crazy:

 

[SleuthyGal]

If OJ and Jason Young got to keep custody, then Brad should too. :crazy:

I'm sure the courts will take your recommendation under advisement!

 

[calgary123]

I have doubts about Brad's guilt also, and only found out about the video depositions being online tonight, from reading this thread.

So I randomly click on one deposition link from wral, I think it was the one labeled #2. He says that one of his former girlfriends, with whom he lived, was "Jennifer Wilson". He also said they were engaged.

The problem is, that wasn't her name. He was close, but clearly wrong, and I can't understand why he'd do that. I don't believe that he actually forgot her name.

When I get some time I'm going to go through the rest of of the video, and I'll report back what I find.

 

[Star12]

NCSU95, more has crawled out from the cracks and crevices since that divorce draft was made.

As to Brad's escapades with women outside his marriage, I believe that the custody hearing will consider what kind of role model Brad is, in regard to having two girls who will notice everything he does that they see. Will he be having closet sex or any other kind with (X,Y,Z woman) while the girls are in the home?

Might the girls ask, "Daddy, why are you so nice and kissy to (X,Y,Z woman) but you were always fussy with mommy and didn't give her a Christmas present?" How many women might these girls be exposed to in their childhood, if they lived with Brad? I doubt he could attract many if he is the murderer. But then, there won't be any custody issue.

How will Brad handle the questions that the girls will bring home: "Jimmy said you killed our mommy, so he can't come over to play cause his mommy said so."

If Brad gets the girls, will his mom be their caretaker while he's at work? Hmmm. Scary, from what we've read about her. Not that we actually know.

Here, it doesn't matter in custody issues that a party is having an open affair. In my situation, which was some 15 years ago, he took the children with him to the beach for a vacation, along with a girlfriend. They did get a suite, but to me it didn't matter - my children were exposed to the affair. The court didn't care.

And I believe I read that his mother was going to stay for a year if he got the girls. As long as the children are not abused, there would be no legal issue that it would not be a good arrangement in the eyes of the court.

Personally, I think the situation would be much, much better for the children if they were to stay with the Listers, but I have no standing with the court.

 

[raisincharlie]

I have doubts about Brad's guilt also, and only found out about the video depositions being online tonight, from reading this thread.

So I randomly click on one deposition link from wral, I think it was the one labeled #2. He says that one of his former girlfriends, with whom he lived, was "Jennifer Wilson". He also said they were engaged.

The problem is, that wasn't her name. He was close, but clearly wrong, and I can't understand why he'd do that. I don't believe that he actually forgot her name.

When I get some time I'm going to go through the rest of of the video, and I'll report back what I find.

Interesting. Is it possible he got the last name wrong because he was thinking of who he recalled Nancy once dating - I believe he said the name Brett Wilson.

 

[cygnusx1]

3. This is a different custody situation with different parties, and now including the facts of the homicide of an intimate partner--this did not exist when Nancy was seeking formal separation.

In which one party has NO custodial rights.

 

[Anderson]

In which one party has NO custodial rights.

Yes, this is a very unusual situation. The fact that Brad doesn't currently have his kids now, leads me to ask questions: what did NC's parents and the court know that allowed the emergency custody decision to go through? Why didn't Brad fight this back in July?

We are learning more all the time and I am sure that there is more to come. . . .

 

[SleuthyGal]

I remain conflicted about the custody situation. I thought I'd feel strongly one way or the other, but I still don't. That's not like me at all!

I'm thrilled the kids are doing well and I agree they are in a safe, nurturing home, surrounded by people who clearly love them and are protecting them. And that's fantastic. But when I think about what's best for the kids I also see that they need their father and need to maintain a close rel'p with him.

In a perfect world all parties would be very close and the kids would have access to all of them everyday. That would truly be in the 'best' interest of these kids. In fact, if courts could mandate such a thing I think that would be the best ruling of all.

... sigh ...

This all just makes me very sad.

 

[ncsu95]

Yes, this is a very unusual situation. The fact that Brad doesn't currently have his kids now, leads me to ask questions: what did NC's parents and the court know that allowed the emergency custody decision to go through? Why didn't Brad fight this back in July?

We are learning more all the time and I am sure that there is more to come. . . .

The Rentz family could have said anything in the emergency hearing. There was no burden of proof at that time. If a woman goes to a judge to get a restraining order against her husband, the burden of proof is very low. I believe the courts would err on the side of caution. But they could have said anything they want since BC wasn't involved to defend himself.

 

[ncsu95]

I remain conflicted about the custody situation. I thought I'd feel strongly one way or the other, but I still don't. That's not like me at all!

I'm thrilled the kids are doing well and I agree they are in a safe, nurturing home, surrounded by people who clearly love them and are protecting them. And that's fantastic. But when I think about what's best for the kids I also see that they need their father and need to maintain a close rel'p with him.

In a perfect world all parties would be very close and the kids would have access to all of them everyday. That would truly be in the 'best' interest of these kids. In fact, if courts could mandate such a thing I think that would be the best ruling of all.

... sigh ...

This all just makes me very sad.

I think the kids should be with BC until such time as he is arrested...with liberal visitation rights to the Rentz family.

Honestly, I know the focus of this forum is BC (and NC obviously), but we know next to nothing about the Rentz family. We have some affidavits from counselors, etc about how the kids are doing...but we really don't know how fit the Listers are to be parents. I'm not saying, nor suggesting that they are unfit. I'm simply saying that people are assuming that they are automatically the best place for Katie and Bella.

 

[SleuthyGal]

The Rentz family could have said anything in the emergency hearing. There was no burden of proof at that time.

What info is this opinion based on?

 

[Anderson]

What info is this opinion based on?

Good question.

 

[Anderson]

I remain conflicted about the custody situation. I thought I'd feel strongly one way or the other, but I still don't. That's not like me at all!

I'm thrilled the kids are doing well and I agree they are in a safe, nurturing home, surrounded by people who clearly love them and are protecting them. And that's fantastic. But when I think about what's best for the kids I also see that they need their father and need to maintain a close rel'p with him.

In a perfect world all parties would be very close and the kids would have access to all of them everyday. That would truly be in the 'best' interest of these kids. In fact, if courts could mandate such a thing I think that would be the best ruling of all.

... sigh ...

This all just makes me very sad.

I agree that this is all very sad. I'm sure that Brad loves his kids, but that does not mean that the girls would be safe. I am very glad that the Judge is being so thorough. IMO, IF there is a chance that the girls would be in a hostile environment with BC, then it is better to try to look at that issue now, rather than later.

 

[ncsu95]

What info is this opinion based on?

My own opinion.

 

[Anderson]

My own opinion.

I think that the emergency custody was based on more than just NC's family's information. The probable cause affidavit, for example, would have been written at about that time, I believe.

 

[Bob&Bob]

1. The prior separation agreement had never been signed. According to Brad's depo he said "he and Nancy were not separated."

2. The full details of the tryst may not have been known, only that he and HM had an 'affair.' And ditto the alleged affair with Celine in France.

3. This is a different custody situation with different parties, and now including the facts of the homicide of an intimate partner--this did not exist when Nancy was seeking formal separation.

4. Allegations of abuse (towards Nancy and possibly one or both kids) are part of this custody fight.

5. Whole 'nother ballgame now.

I think he called whatever it was they were doing
an "incident", not an affair.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I think he called whatever it was they were doing an "incident", not an affair.

Yes, that's the word he used. However, through Stubb's questioning it was determined there were several incidents:

- 3 to 5 separate incidents of kissing
- 1 or more incidents of intimate touching
- 1 separate incident of oral sex
- 1 separate incident of intercourse

That's what he admitted to during questioning. Whether or not there were more 'incidents' remain to be determined.

Definition of affair from Merriam-Webster dictionary:

af·faire: a romantic or passionate attachment typically of limited duration