GUILTY New Zealand - Dr. Lauren Dickason, 40, charged w/killing her 3 young daughters, Timaru, 16 Sep 2021

[cocomod]

In a state of psychosis..how does one do this to ALL 3 children? Do we have a psychiatry expert on this forum that could explain this?

My step-son functioned at work and around the family for the most part for a week leading in to his psychosis. Then, for a 72 hour period of time, he has no memory, no concept of what happened.

 

[gsleuth]

First time that i can recall, to learn this specific information.
''Lauren Dickason was unresponsive and in a critical condition when her husband arrived home.''

This does not make sense. (not sure if this report is correct)
''Lauren Dickason was unresponsive and in a critical condition when her husband arrived home.''
''neighbour found the distressed father and called 111''

Why would her husband not call 111 if she was unresponsive and in a critical condition?

Timaru tragedy: Murder-accused mum Lauren Dickason back in court this morning - NZ Herald
A neighbour told the Herald the morning after the alleged murders that she heard the sounds of sobbing and moaning about 9.40pm.

Another neighbour found the distressed father and called 111.

Police then converged on the house.

Lauren Dickason was unresponsive and in a critical condition when her husband arrived home.

She was taken to Timaru Hospital for treatment and was stable enough by Friday night to speak with police.

 

[gsleuth]

I was under the impression that she had tried to harm herself

This does not make sense.
''Lauren Dickason was unresponsive and in a critical condition when her husband arrived home.''
''neighbour found the distressed father and called 111''

Why would her husband not call 111 if she was unresponsive and in a critical condition?

Timaru tragedy: Murder-accused mum Lauren Dickason back in court this morning - NZ Herald

 

[Sarahlou]

This does not make sense. (not sure if this report is correct)
''Lauren Dickason was unresponsive and in a critical condition when her husband arrived home.''
''neighbour found the distressed father and called 111''

Why would her husband not call 111 if she was unresponsive and in a critical condition?

Timaru tragedy: Murder-accused mum Lauren Dickason back in court this morning - NZ Herald

Sounds like he was too distressed and in shock to do it himself. I'm not surprised

 

[investikater]

This does not make sense. (not sure if this report is correct)
''Lauren Dickason was unresponsive and in a critical condition when her husband arrived home.''
''neighbour found the distressed father and called 111''
Why would her husband not call 111 if she was unresponsive and in a critical condition?

@gsleuth
the reporting was that he just ran out of the house and was screaming 'is this really happening?' over and over.
i guess he could have been so overcome he didn't have the presence of mind.
but on the other hand he is a doctor and trained to deal with gore and emergency situations.
on the other hand finding all your own children dead is probably a bit different to a stranger's graphic medical issue.

 

[gsleuth]

It is puzzling.

As someone who left one country for another upon becoming a doc (UK to Canada) and brought someone with me, I can confirm the relatively low level of integrative support that was available to us upon arrival -- there wasn't any, beyond assignation of a local "mentor" who I think we met with once. It was hard. It is hard. Even learning the lingua franca of new clinical and hospital methodologies takes a LOT of effort.

Furthermore, there can be stigma between medical professionals regarding certain meds and treatments that might be said to degrade performance (whether they do or not) but that stigma has eased considerably, and there's a wealth of resources open to many of us, especially in Covid times, where stress and burnout are understandably through the roof. Even in a quarantine hotel, even during the disturbing symptoms of withdrawal.

OTOH, people emigrate for all sorts of reasons, and face enormous barriers in terms of language, culture, economics and medical conditions of all kinds, without the resources to cope now or in the future. They don't necessarily leave behind nannies/ house staffs and lives of relative privilege, and most find ways to cope, despite profound ongoing obstacles.

That said, I suspect that more will be learned here, and the ability of the grieving husband and other family members to adjust the media narrative as they try to absorb this loss is going to be very important to what unfolds. It may not be as simple or baffling as what we are hearing now.

IMO, with apologies for self-reference. Although many of these concerns are general to the profession, I'd say.

Thank you for sharing..very insightful.

I have noticed the narrative.
That said, I suspect that more will be learned here, and the ability of the grieving husband and other family members to adjust the media narrative as they try to absorb this loss is going to be very important to what unfolds.

 

[gsleuth]

I don't know if anyone can truly understand this unless they have experienced it on a personal level. Watching someone you love change is incredibly difficult to help people understand. Watching psychosis hit someone within a day is incredibly difficult. Watching their brain literally change their behavior and their personality is incredibly difficult. I saw my step-son go from a very confident "normal" young adult to an almost toddler like person - confused and crying. His talking changed, his behavior was strange, and he didn't even understand basic things. Once we were able to get to the bottom of the issue at that time, he didn't remember the last week. Zero. Nada. Nothing. Psychosis takes over the mind and there can be NO memory of that time frame.

Thank you for sharing..it helps me understand psychosis a bit better.

 

[investikater]

I don't know why everyone is so convinced she is crazy
we don't know yet

i think my post about them adding 10 days to her assessment was lost so i'll ask again;
should we read anything into this?
for example; if it was very obvious she was insane, would the initial period have been enough?

 

[gsleuth]

I don't know why everyone is so convinced she is crazy
we don't know yet

i think my post about them adding 10 days to her assessment was lost so i'll ask again;
should we read anything into this?
for example; if it was very obvious she was insane, would the initial period have been enough?

Not sure..this is the New Zealand Crimes Act - Infanticide.
Interested in your thoughts..
Where upon the trial of a woman for infanticide, or for the murder or manslaughter of any child of hers under the age of 10 years, the jury are of opinion that at the time of the alleged offence the balance of her mind was disturbed, by reason of her not having fully recovered from the effect of giving birth to that or any other child, or by reason of the effect of lactation, or by reason of any disorder consequent upon childbirth or lactation, to such an extent that she was insane, the jury shall return a special verdict of acquittal on account of insanity caused by childbirth.

Crimes Act 1961

Infanticide
(1)

Where a woman causes the death of any child of hers under the age of 10 years in a manner that amounts to culpable homicide, and where at the time of the offence the balance of her mind was disturbed, by reason of her not having fully recovered from the effect of giving birth to that or any other child, or by reason of the effect of lactation, or by reason of any disorder consequent upon childbirth or lactation, to such an extent that she should not be held fully responsible, she is guilty of infanticide, and not of murder or manslaughter, and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years.

(2)

Where upon the trial of a woman for the murder or manslaughter of any child of hers under the age of 10 years there is evidence that would support a verdict of infanticide, the jury may return such a verdict instead of a verdict of murder or manslaughter, and the defendant shall be liable accordingly. Subsection (2) of section 339 shall be read subject to the provisions of this subsection, but nothing in this subsection shall affect the power of the jury under that section to return a verdict of manslaughter.

(3)

Where upon the trial of a woman for infanticide, or for the murder or manslaughter of any child of hers under the age of 10 years, the jury are of opinion that at the time of the alleged offence the balance of her mind was disturbed, by reason of her not having fully recovered from the effect of giving birth to that or any other child, or by reason of the effect of lactation, or by reason of any disorder consequent upon childbirth or lactation, to such an extent that she was insane, the jury shall return a special verdict of acquittal on account of insanity caused by childbirth.


Crimes Act 1961 No 43 (as at 26 August 2020), Public Act 178 Infanticide – New Zealand Legislation

 

[investikater]

^i still think the kids are probably too old for her to be suffering from post partum depression or psychosis

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

We don't know that the husband was doing anything other than what other husbands do.

A couple of posts have been removed. Please do not assign any unsubstantiated blame to a grieving spouse and father.

Thank you.

 

[azure]

I am connected (by several degrees of separation) to a woman who was under extreme threat of violence from a cartel after leaving an abusive relationship. Her pleas for asylum were ignored, so she made the difficult choice to be brought to this country by a coyote, at extreme cost and risk to her, simply to stay alive. Make of her decision what you will, but she didn’t harm another human being during or after this terrifying, arduous journey.

I have no empathy whatsoever for this woman.

 

[everybodhi]

Not sure..this is the New Zealand Crimes Act - Infanticide.
Interested in your thoughts..
Where upon the trial of a woman for infanticide, or for the murder or manslaughter of any child of hers under the age of 10 years, the jury are of opinion that at the time of the alleged offence the balance of her mind was disturbed, by reason of her not having fully recovered from the effect of giving birth to that or any other child, or by reason of the effect of lactation, or by reason of any disorder consequent upon childbirth or lactation, to such an extent that she was insane, the jury shall return a special verdict of acquittal on account of insanity caused by childbirth.

Crimes Act 1961

Infanticide
(1)

Where a woman causes the death of any child of hers under the age of 10 years in a manner that amounts to culpable homicide, and where at the time of the offence the balance of her mind was disturbed, by reason of her not having fully recovered from the effect of giving birth to that or any other child, or by reason of the effect of lactation, or by reason of any disorder consequent upon childbirth or lactation, to such an extent that she should not be held fully responsible, she is guilty of infanticide, and not of murder or manslaughter, and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years.

(2)

Where upon the trial of a woman for the murder or manslaughter of any child of hers under the age of 10 years there is evidence that would support a verdict of infanticide, the jury may return such a verdict instead of a verdict of murder or manslaughter, and the defendant shall be liable accordingly. Subsection (2) of section 339 shall be read subject to the provisions of this subsection, but nothing in this subsection shall affect the power of the jury under that section to return a verdict of manslaughter.

(3)

Where upon the trial of a woman for infanticide, or for the murder or manslaughter of any child of hers under the age of 10 years, the jury are of opinion that at the time of the alleged offence the balance of her mind was disturbed, by reason of her not having fully recovered from the effect of giving birth to that or any other child, or by reason of the effect of lactation, or by reason of any disorder consequent upon childbirth or lactation, to such an extent that she was insane, the jury shall return a special verdict of acquittal on account of insanity caused by childbirth.


Crimes Act 1961 No 43 (as at 26 August 2020), Public Act 178 Infanticide – New Zealand Legislation

Wow, 10 years of insanity due to childbirth, but after that you're responsible?

 

[they'll get you]

 

[asmi106082]

I started taking antidepressants over 10 years ago for anxiety and depression. Most antidepressants take a few weeks to begin working. The medicine builds up in your system and starts to provide relief gradually.
I have made the mistake of forgetting to take my meds here and there, and after about 2-3 days, it can severely affect my mental health. When your body has built up the levels it needs to correct a chemical imbalance, it can very quickly react to the sudden loss of these meds. Stopping “cold Turkey” from some antidepressants can be extremely dangerous. I felt suicidal, hopeless, and crazy. All of these symptoms are much worse than anything I experienced prior to being medicated.
I would never stop taking my meds without the approval and assistance of my doctor because I could absolutely see myself having a mental break if I simply stopped taking my medicine. MOO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Remembering the children

When a parent kills, the focus is often on the mindset of the perpetrator rather than the children.

In my ongoing research into media coverage of family murder-suicide cases, I have observed a notable silence around the lives of children and how they experienced violence. It is an uncomfortable topic, but we need to keep children at the centre of these discussions.

While some parents who kill may indeed have been loving parents, the act of filicide should never be framed as an act of love. It is never excusable. As such, many researchers are uncomfortable with the term "altruistic" filicide, which places the emphasis on the parent's experiences, rather than the child's.

We also need to address the cultural beliefs that children belong to their parents. This attitude that children are "property" contributes to filicide.
By Denise Buiten
The differences between men and women who kill their children

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing has changed since the dawn of time, children are viewed as pawns of their parent/s or primary caregiver. This woman is 100% responsible for taking their lives, no one will ever truly know the reason behind it, imo.

I think she'll be able to live with her actions and it will be everyone else's fault, except her own. Whether it was a break with reality or whatever, she had options, fleeing the house is an option most take even in a psychotic state.
There's a lot more to this story, why leave South Africa? Changing locations isn't going to help someone's mental state, it will actually exasperate it.
I'm perplexed why she garners sympathy while a young woman in a lower socio-economic state is reviled! It doesn't matter to the children who've lost their lives, why should it matter to the public?

Nearly every case dating back years that I've known about, the person has talked about harming the child/children on more than one occasion. Those who are listened to, are given the care they need and are removed from the child, and the child/children are saved, there are good outcomes we'll never hear about unless you're personally involved.
Shame and pride shouldn't be a factor in not getting or asking for help. imo

 

[moody_chicago]

This was a great post.
I have to admit I am struggling with empathy over this case because I feel the perpetrator was so privileged. Was she tapered off the medication? Was she being followed by a professional because of going off whatever medication she was on? Did her husband know that she was struggling mentally?
Ugh.

And why go off the meds. If it was part of the deal that I couldn’t take my “chronic” medication anymore, we wouldn’t move. My partner and I wouldn’t move to a place where I couldn’t take my meds.

That’s the part that I’m grappling with. I think it’s safe to assume that they were some kind of psychiatric drug. It was her and her husbands choice to move to a place where she’d have to quit her medication. I bet they thought they could make that call because they’re doctors.
But the privilege. I can’t not think of that. She had so much help and could afford so much help. Then suddenly she has to be your average, isolated, single mother. Normal.

Maybe she loved her kids but didn’t know how to care for them. If they’re in school or daycare all day, then there’s a nanny..I’m just saying. There’s so many parents who really don’t spend much time with their kids. She could have been one of them.
Remember when covid first hit and everyone was making jokes about how awful it was having to be around their kids all day now that school and daycare is closed? There’s some truth to those jokes.

 

[moody_chicago]

I started taking antidepressants over 10 years ago for anxiety and depression. Most antidepressants take a few weeks to begin working. The medicine builds up in your system and starts to provide relief gradually.
I have made the mistake of forgetting to take my meds here and there, and after about 2-3 days, it can severely affect my mental health. When your body has built up the levels it needs to correct a chemical imbalance, it can very quickly react to the sudden loss of these meds. Stopping “cold Turkey” from some antidepressants can be extremely dangerous. I felt suicidal, hopeless, and crazy. All of these symptoms are much worse than anything I experienced prior to being medicated.
I would never stop taking my meds without the approval and assistance of my doctor because I could absolutely see myself having a mental break if I simply stopped taking my medicine. MOO

Omg and the physical effects are BRUTAL. So couple feeling like $**+ emotionally with physically…it’s a nightmare.

 

[moody_chicago]

I don't know why everyone is so convinced she is crazy
we don't know yet

i think my post about them adding 10 days to her assessment was lost so i'll ask again;
should we read anything into this?
for example; if it was very obvious she was insane, would the initial period have been enough?

Right? For all we know she could have always been a narcissist. She could be a sociopath who went to church. We don’t truly know anything about her personality.

 

[Countem]

Lauren Dickason: Mother pleads not guilty to murdering her three daughters

“Lauren Dickason, who is accused of murdering her three daughters, did not appear before the Timaru High Court on Friday, 15 October, because she “remains unwell” at the Hillmorton Hospital she was remanded to for psychiatric evaluation after her first court appearance.

The South African doctor’s legal team said the accused intends to plead not guilty to the three murder charges.”