Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest* #2

[Kikixxxx]

The next witness, who has name suppression, went on a date with Grace the night before she died.

The pair met at Base Backpackers hostel where Grace was staying in Auckland and, after sharing contact details, they agreed to meet on November 30, 2018.

They first went to McDonalds and then went back to his house to watch a film in his room.

During the film, they started kissing, which led to sex.

The witness describes the sex as "normal" and says he had his hand "potentially" on Grace's neck.

He says he can't remember "100 per cent" if he put his hand around Grace's neck but it's something he does "a lot of the time" with other women because they enjoy it.

He doesn't discuss doing it with the girls before doing it, he says, but says it's a common thing he does.

Grace Millane murder trial: Defence case continues with more expert witnesses

Basically only called him as a defence witness just cause she had sex with him the night before yeah??

 

[Edinlass]

Basically only called him as a defence witness just cause she had sex with him the night before yeah??

Without a doubt. What a sin.

 

[flutterby]

God this is awful.

Young woman on trip of a life time likes to have casual sex. So what.

That doesn't mean she asked to be strangled to death

 

[stephaniejanes]

Without a doubt. What a sin.

Making me angry, it's so obvious what they're trying to do. Especially after the rubbish in the opening about not shaming Grace. That's exactly what they're attempting to do. Though all the shame is on the accused not Grace's name.

 

[Edinlass]

McDonalds, sex, hands round the neck with no consent because hey, that’s what women enjoy. Poor Grace - these ‘men’ are crap.

 

[flutterby]

There was that female friend of hers who gave evidence about texting with Grace during Grace’s last night out. Her name wasn’t suppressed.

Ah yep!

 

[asyousay]

So Grace liked one night stands and rough sex and the whole world knows it. It’s odd how the murder victim is being *advertiser censored* shamed here but the accused is hiding behind his anonymity and protected.

 

[LucyRocket]

Under-cross examination, Crown prosecutor Brian Dickey confirms Grace never asked for the witness to put his hand on her neck.

"You were clear that Grace did not ask you to do that?" Dickey asked.

"No, she never asked," he replied.

"And if you did do it, which you say sometimes you do, it's never vigorous, correct? So, no-one's gone unconscious under your grip?" he asked.

"Correct."

"So, you only go harder if the woman asked? And Grace didn't ask?"

"No, she never asked.”

The witness concluded by saying there was nothing else aggressive about their encounter that night.

Grace Millane murder trial: Defence case continues with more expert witnesses

 

[JG123]

I'm unsure why the hysteria over what the defence are doing. Has no one ever followed a trial before?

 

[flutterby]

So Grace liked one night stands and rough sex and the whole world knows it. It’s odd how the murder victim is being *advertiser censored* shamed here but the accused is hiding behind his anonymity and protected.

I'm so sad for her.

The first part of your first sentence could have been written about literally millions of young woman, myself included.

It doesn't mean we should expect to die nor have our sex lives published globally, practically in real-time as it's reported.

 

[jamjim]

"11:44am - Under cross-examination, the man confirms he doesn't remember what exactly happened during sex with Millane. Crown prosecutor Brian Dickey asks if the man would consider the sex "vanilla", and the man says he does.

The witness says no one has ever gone unconscious while he has had his hand on their neck.

He has now finished giving evidence."

Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as defence's overseas witnesses stream into court

 

[Edinlass]

I'm unsure why the hysteria over what the defence are doing. Has no one ever followed a trial before?

Yes I am confident in saying we all have, many many times. That being said this is the first of this kind of trial I have followed and I am absolutely shocked at the level of victim blaming / shaming going on by the defence. If this is how rape cases are handled no wonder people are afraid to come forward for fear of this sort of backlash!

 

[LucyRocket]

I'm unsure why the hysteria over what the defence are doing. Has no one ever followed a trial before?

You are absolutely right. It is what they have to do. The only thing they can do.

But it always feels so wrong. The aggressor is able to have their day (or several) in court, and the victim never has that opportunity. They can't give their side of the story. Their life has already been taken, and then they have to be torn to pieces in an attempt for the perpetrator to keep their freedom

 

[flutterby]

I'm unsure why the hysteria over what the defence are doing. Has no one ever followed a trial before?

Genuine question. Would any of this be admissible in a rape trial? And is it the same in the UK and NZ?

 

[Kikixxxx]

I'm unsure why the hysteria over what the defence are doing. Has no one ever followed a trial before?

They are clearly trying to *advertiser censored* shame her. She’s dead and can’t defend herself. There was literally NO Other reason for the defence to call that last witness apart from letting the court / the jury and everyone else know she had sex with some bloke the night before (and he didn’t put his hands around her neck) I imagine this will be common in rape trials but not murder trials where the victim can’t defend herself

 

[asyousay]

I'm unsure why the hysteria over what the defence are doing. Has no one ever followed a trial before?

Because it’s disgusting on so many levels.


Also this kind of thing has ramifications as how many women watching this kind of thing if then attacked don’t report things as who wants this to happen to them?

It’s just totally distasteful how the worlds media are acting like Grace asked for this to happen because she liked things slightly different in the bedroom.

Grace could of had one night stands for a year before she was killed and it should be nobody’s business. She didn’t ask to be murdered and this *advertiser censored* shaming is horrible and it shows how differently men and women are still treated even today. If this was a man sleeping around nobody would bat a eyelid.

IMO

 

[courtkim]

If I was in Grace's position the things that would come out about me would be the same, if not worse. And as my mother said last night, no parent wants to know about their child's sex life. It's her prerogative to have as much kinky casual sex with as many men as she likes and it's none of our business.

Unfortunately based on threads I've seen on another site, she was already being assigned some blame for putting herself in a dangerous situation. This just shows she's done it more than once.
Obviously I disagree as I feel like it's a thing that a woman can't engage in casual encounters without being worried about her safety.

 

[LucyRocket]

Now I haven't commented on any of the evidence so far, because we've no idea how it comes across in court, and we're only getting snippets. But I have got to say that this last witness, called by the defence, would only have made the prosecution's version more credible to me!

 

[courtkim]

Seems like all us ladies are on the same page here...

 

[LucyRocket]

Because it’s disgusting on so many levels.


Also this kind of thing has ramifications as how many women watching this kind of thing if then attacked don’t report things as who wants this to happen to them?

It’s just totally distasteful how the worlds media are acting like Grace asked for this to happen because she liked things slightly different in the bedroom.

Grace could of had one night stands for a year before she was killed and it should be nobody’s business. She didn’t ask to be murdered and this shut shaming is horrible and it shows how differently men and women are still treated.

IMO

Or not different at all, going by the evidence. Quite the norm, in fact