Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest*

[Sarahlou]

Grace millane murderer can’t be named. I didn’t know murderers have rights to privacy.

I do not agree with this law. His name and face should be plastered worldwide, as all murderers should.

Evidently some countries see room for error in their courts and want murderers to
go free without prejudice should they be set free to murder again.

He isn't a convicted murderer yet. His name will be published everywhere when he is, don't worry.

Oh and I hate all this talk of whether she should have travelled alone or used tinder etc etc. She did nothing wrong. The killer did. She was extremely unlucky to meet someone like that.

 

[Elley Mae]

He isn't a convicted murderer yet. His name will be published everywhere when he is, don't worry.

Oh and I hate all this talk of whether she should have travelled alone or used tinder etc etc. She did nothing wrong. The killer did. She was extremely unlucky to meet someone like that.

Convicted versus accused.

I must say that I don’t agree with this. And I find myself less interested in cases that shield the accused. He’ll end up getting off or a slap on the wrist.

 

[Sarahlou]

Convicted versus accused.

I must say that I don’t agree with this. And I find myself less interested in cases that shield the accused. He’ll end up getting off or a slap on the wrist.

No he won't!

 

[Hjp]

Thank you all for the kind responses and alternative viewpoints.

I think in the end, (whether or not NZ police get round to releasing the autopsy/postmortem results), we may find out that she had probably been drinking, (anywhere from tipsy to drunk), and made a decision to go with that guy to his room, which she might not had done if sober.

He certainly probably tricked her into doing so, (which would have been easier for him whilst she was under the influence). Once they were both in the room together he probably came on to her straight away, she then rejected his advances, and that's when things may have got heated.

I'm thinking that either he forced himself on her and then killed her afterwards to cover his tracks or she resisted him and he killed her. He may also have harmed her to stop her from leaving his room. One thing is almost certain:- it was probably sexually motivated.

It is possible that residents near to his apartment room could have been alerted to Grace's screaming or the violence that was going on in the room, so he probably killed her with force very quickly. I'm thinking probably suffocation, strangulation or drowning as these methods keep the noise to a minimum and keep the victim silent.

It also keeps the body "intact". The forensics collected in the room could be anything from Grace's fingerprints, clothing, hair, skin, saliva or blood. If she was in the room they will certainly have found a treasure trove of evidence. With the body, car and shovel now found as well it seems certain now he will be convicted on all charges.

I think the shovel found played a role in possibly burying Grace where she was found, a few days after she had died. I strongly believe that Grace Millane died on Saturday night soon after going to his room. I doubt the suspect wanted to wait long with a pretty 22 year old in his room with only him.

Here we likely have a delusional young man with sexual fustration. I very much doubt she was the first that had rejected him, and since he had also probably been drinking with Grace had spun into a rage. In previous reports I read, previous house mates did say he was aggressive when drunk and did drink regularly, so that does make sense.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

Convicted versus accused.

I must say that I don’t agree with this. And I find myself less interested in cases that shield the accused. He’ll end up getting off or a slap on the wrist.

No.

 

[musicaljoke]

Convicted versus accused.

I must say that I don’t agree with this. And I find myself less interested in cases that shield the accused. He’ll end up getting off or a slap on the wrist.

NZ has carefully managed justice system with a solid history, one which I believe the people of NZ can be proud of. I have no fears that, if the accused is found guilty, he will be held to account within a system that is fair and right.

NZ is near the top of the list on the World Justice Project 2017/18 'Rule of Law' index. New Zealand ranked 7th out of 113 countries, ahead of Canada (9th), Australia (10th), and the UK (11th), United States (19th).

https://worldjusticeproject.org/sit...ments/WJP-ROLI-2018-June-Online-Edition_0.pdf (pg 6-7)

 

[CoverMeCagney]

NZ has carefully managed justice system with a solid history, one which I believe the people of NZ can be proud of. I have no fears that, if the accused is found guilty, he will be held to account within a system that is fair and right.

NZ is near the top of the list on the World Justice Project 2017/18 'Rule of Law' index. New Zealand ranked 7th out of 113 countries, ahead of Canada (9th), Australia (10th), and the UK (11th), United States (19th).

https://worldjusticeproject.org/sit...ments/WJP-ROLI-2018-June-Online-Edition_0.pdf (pg 6-7)

Scandinavia scoring highly on that list, those countries have got so many things right.

 

[kae27]

I don’t think any of us are in a position to know why Grace spent the amount of time in Peru that she did, or why she didn’t venture further afield. Maybe South America wasn’t at the top of her list to explore, but Machu Pichu was on the bucket list? I myself did that tour, 3 weeks around Peru culminating in MP.

She didn’t make any “mistake” by meeting a guy on Tinder. Its a form of hooking up/dating and done all over the world. She could never have known that this guy would turn out be the kind of person he has shown us to be.

Women should absolutely travel on their own, I have done countless trips solo and will continue. You need to have your wits about you and understand the places you’re traveling to sure. But never will I think that because I’m a white female I need a travel companion. The issue is the sleazy predators that think they are allowed to do this - that’s the issue that needs to be dealt with.

Wish there were an option stronger than "like" for this post. Perfectly said.

 

[kiwijayne]

Convicted versus accused.

I must say that I don’t agree with this. And I find myself less interested in cases that shield the accused. He’ll end up getting off or a slap on the wrist.

They aren’t shielding the accused. Because NZ is a small place they’re ensuring he gets a fair trial therefore ensuring he pays for his crime. If they don’t he may get off and I have to point out that would probably make people angrier.

 

[mrjitty]

Just to be clear, the accused only has temporary name suppression for this short period because he applied for it.

But name suppression is almost never granted in murder cases.

In the initial hearing the District Court refused the application for name suppression. However because he then immediately appealed, name suppression must remain in place until the appeal is heard (otherwise it would be pointless).

The appeal on this matter will be heard swiftly, and the accused will almost certainly lose, at which time his name will be published - all long before trial.

There is no suggestion at this point that the NZ Courts believe the accused needs name suppression to get a fair trial. The District Court held the opposite.

Rather, the temporary name suppression must be observed, against the possibility that the High Court should grant the application for an extended period, or permanently.

 

[mrjitty]

All things being equal - ie that Grace was a normal 22-year -old (and by all accounts from family and friends she was just that and had no 'issues' that would have made her vulnerable) - I don't think she was too young or too inexperienced to travel the world on her own. Thousands and thousands of young women do it every year for the first time, a lot of them much younger than she was, and never run into any kind of trouble.

It's quite possible that she didn't let her guard down and willingly went with the accused to his room. Some people simply take more risks than others. That's how they live their lives. Maybe she also went on these types of dates in her home town. CCTV footage and results from the autopsy re alcohol/drugs in her system will reveal whether her judgement could have been compromised or not.

Personally, I would never go to a room with a guy I didn't know. Not at home. Not while travelling overseas. Not anywhere. No amount of coaxing would ever entice me to take that risk. Even if I could hear a loud party going on, and there were obviously others inside, I still wouldn't do it. I know women should be able to go into any room with a man they've just met and not come out of it raped, bashed or dead. I've never felt inclined to take the risk just to prove a point.

I think the backpacker and tinder aspect of the case are largely irrelevant

The murder rate in NZ is actually a bit lower than the UK - but both countries are relatively safe.

NZ gets nearly 4m tourist visits per year. Essentially zero get murdered.

You can just as easy get attacked in London as Auckland if you go off with a guy you don't know.

IMO that is the unsafe aspect.

Indeed what is shocking and highly unusual about this case is to get murdered on downtown Queen St in a nice hotel while out on a saturday night.

It's pretty much unheard of.

 

[mrjitty]

By far the most interesting question is on what basis did he apply for name suppression

Everyone is assuming it was simply to protect his own identity or to get a fair trial, but I wonder if there was some other reason - e.g. to protect family.

The fact that he even applied for it suggests he has a good legal team

 

[Plunky]

Indeed what is shocking and highly unusual about this case is to get murdered on downtown Queen St in a nice hotel while out on a saturday night.

It's pretty much unheard of.

Which all points to it not being premeditated. He may as well have murdered her on Queen Street. He had absolutely zero chance of getting away with killing her in a hotel with CCTV everywhere. All his removing her body did was buy him a bit of extra time - a lot of effort for little gain - but even then he didn't run but stayed close waiting to be arrested.

 

[mrjitty]

Which all points to it not being premeditated. He may as well have murdered her on Queen Street. He had absolutely zero chance of getting away with killing her in a hotel with CCTV everywhere. All his removing her body did was buy him a bit of extra time - a lot of effort for little gain - but even then he didn't run but stayed close waiting to be arrested.

It's not unusual though. If as suspected, the crime is sexually motivated, these predatory kinds of offenders usually act up to the crime with a lot of warning signs in advance.

Eventually they will lose control and do their first murder. e.g. the Jo Yeates case. But like that case, they won't have made preparations to dispose of the body.

The first victim is often someone they know - close to where they live. In this case, the identity of the victim is likely not important - rather he had developed a MO of where he would look for a victim. That will be key to his fantasy.

I will be interested if this guy has previous sexual assaults in his past

"Whoever fights monsters" is very interesting on these personalities.

Of course most don't turn into serial offenders because they are caught on the first victim

 

[mrjitty]

We know this guy is a complete liar

I wonder if his thing is to pretend to be a wealthy business guy, and prey on people who are new in town.

 

[Plunky]

I will be interested if this guy has previous sexual assaults in his past

We know this guy in a complete liar

I'll leave criminal and psychological profiling to the experts. We basically know nothing about the accused other than what some claimed acquaintances and people who have had limited contact with him in the past have said to journalists. These types always appear after someone is arrested in a high-profile case and I generally take what they have to say with a grain of salt. Relatives who have spoken to the press haven't offered much insight either.

And on that note, time to leave this thread until something new comes to light.

 

[guruagain]

Grace will be laid to rest on Thursday. R.I.P Grace.

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17336607.backpacker-grace-to-be-laid-to-rest/

 

[mrjitty]

It has been the summer holiday period in NZ but I presume the High Court decision on name suppression cannot be far off.

 

[Tortoise]

It has been the summer holiday period in NZ but I presume the High Court decision on name suppression cannot be far off.

Yes I've got today pencilled in as the end of his 20 working days.

 

[missNZ]

The suspect is back in court today - Grace Millane: What will happen at murder accused's court appearance?