GUILTY NH - Abby Hernandez, 14, North Conway, 9 Oct 2013 - #15

[Fireweed]

It is a consolidated "rough sketch" that I made from the plethora of photo's published by MSM. As a visual person, I automatically start doing diagrams like this when photos are plentiful to assist with orienting and approximating. While looking at it, it occurred to me that others might find it helpful as well.

(NOTE: Zoom lenses on cameras can distort distances, but the mobile home and container dimensions are in scale and proportionally accurate.)

You did a really good job and I am very impressed.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

You did a really good job and I am very impressed.

Me, too! And this really helps visualize the layout of the scene--I think even better than the cluttered photos.

 

[tlcya]

PIM your photobucketed version of Radichio's drawing is very legible. My eyes thank you And Radichio, good job.

 

[AnaTeresa]

We've been round and round on this on the previous thread - some of us think the sketch bears resemblance to Kibby, and others think that it does not. We've also been round and round on eye color, with plenty of people talking about how it's not so easy to remember. The fact that some of us DO think that it looks like him should put to rest the idea that Abby provided incorrect or intentionally false info to LE. If we can see the resemblance, perhaps she thought it a fair match, too.

 

[Steleheart]

1. LE said that the information for the sketch was provided by Abby

2. They said that he "drove Abby away" from Conway that day3. At Kibby's arraignment on Tuesday, July 29th, Jane Young said that they had only gotten the information to arrest Kibby within the "past 48 hours"

4. Conway PD gave Kibby his guns back to him on July 24th.

5. LE has not said one single word since Kibby's arrest about etch-a-sketch man. It seems like at least they are no longer concerned with finding him.

To me all these things add up to etch-a-sketch man being false information provided by Abby, and that she only gave LE the information to narrow-down Kibby in the 48 hours before his arrest. And, as I have said many, many times, none of this means that Abby is not still a victim. I can think of myriad reasons why a kid in her position may have given a fake description of her abductor and waited to finally finger the actual guy who did it. However, it still gives me pause that this was a forced stranger abduction.

There was no fake description. LE has NEVER Said that the sketch was the kidnapper. LE has specifically stated that Abby herself provided all the information that enabled them to make an arrest. They did NOT claim that she waited to finger him.

For all we know that "mystery section" is his grow room. I would be surprised if there was a ton of evidence in either of those places at this point. If Abby had clothing there, then surely he dumped it by now. I cannot imagine that they will find much more other than that Abby has been in that trailer at some point. This case is unusual in that he dropped her off and she gave a false description of kidnapper which gave him a ton of time to clean up the "crime scene". I know people here were very supportive of giving Abby time and not pressuring her to tell her story right away, but this is exactly why it cannot wait. I understand the instinct to protect a traumatized child, but the longer that goes on, the more time the perpetrator has to get rid of evidence. A victim in this situation is simply going to have to go through one more ordeal - telling LE what happened - before they get to "relax".

again

I definitely think she was there with him at least at some point in the past nine months, and likely the entire time. I have my doubts as to whether she was there against her will not due to any technicality as to whether others could hear her scream, but because she gave a false description of her kidnapper and did not reveal who Kibby was until 5 or 6 days after she got back. I am not saying that it proves anything; I am saying that it gives me some reasonable doubt at this point that she was the victim of a stranger kidnapping.

again

The police said she gave the description. Are they lying?

Police said she gave the description of a driver they wanted to speak with. So NO they did not lie, they never said it was supposed to be the kidnapper.

I cannot think of any other explanation. That does not mean that Abby is not a victim. I can think of many reasons why someone in her position would provide a false description of her kidnapper, and all of them would still keep her 100% a victim. That is not being "unfriendly" to the victim; it is simply stating a fact in this case that resulted in the current suspect having an entire week to clean up.

yet again

I can think of reasons why a victim would be uncooperative that would still keep them firmly within the victim category. Obviously something broke down at some point and that is why Kibby was not arrested for an entire week. I used to be able to come up with even more explanations, until I saw that they actually gave him his guns back on the 24th. That is something that LE never would have done if this guy was in any way a blip on their radar.

again
Where do you get that she "gave a false description"?
Where do you get that she was "uncooperative"?
From Law enforcement? From WMUR commenters?
If Anyone can provide me a link that states that Abby gave "false information". I will get off this topic. LE never said the sketch was the kidnapper. They only said he drove. period. all the facts we know.

I have not seen any victim bashing in this thread. I have seen an analysis of the facts that is in perfect harmony with respect to the victim.

Allegations that she was uncooperative, that she gave a fake description or others like she might be the one visiting him every weekend, are all contrary to the known facts.


There's your answer.

****** :cow: *****

 

[Fireweed]

We've been round and round on this on the previous thread - some of us think the sketch bears resemblance to Kibby, and others think that it does not. We've also been round and round on eye color, with plenty of people talking about how it's not so easy to remember. The fact that some of us DO think that it looks like him should put to rest the idea that Abby provided incorrect or intentionally false info to LE. If we can see the resemblance, perhaps she thought it a fair match, too.

But it was not a fair match in the end, which to me makes it mysterious and worthy of discussion [modsnip]

 

[LookingHoping]

I did not mean it in a negative way at all; it was just an observation. I have been accused of the same thing actually. I always look different in photos.

I thought that one thing that was going on was that Abby was in the transition from childhood to adulthood, and I have always noticed that a girl during that time can look very, very different from moment to moment. My thinking was that if someone saw Abby during the nine months she was gone, they may not have recognized her. Look, I have been following this case from the beginning, but if I saw Abby as she appeared at the arraignment, I really do not think I would have recognized her at all.

This right here is why I think we can all agree to disagree, but also as another stated (AnaT I believe ^^ up there) if some of us feel it is right on, it is likely that AH did, too. I'd have recognized Abby on the street, any day. I didn't see her looks all that differently from photo to photo, hair changes, but that's about it. Maybe because I'm growing my own teenage girls here?

 

[Steleheart]

But it was not a fair match in the end, which to me makes it mysterious and worthy of discussion on a website dedicated to sleuthing. Call me crazy.

Match to what?

Again, where did LE say it was supposed be Kibby?
LINK Please
TIA

 

[tlcya]

:sigh:

 

[Fireweed]

There was no fake description. LE has NEVER Said that the sketch was the kidnapper. LE has specifically stated that Abby herself provided all the information that enabled them to make an arrest. They did NOT claim that she waited to finger him.



again



again



Police said she gave the description of a driver they wanted to speak with. So NO they did not lie, they never said it was supposed to be the kidnapper.



again
Where do you get that she "gave a false description"?
Where do you get that she was "uncooperative"?
From Law enforcement? From WMUR commenters?
If Anyone can provide me a link that states that Abby gave "false information". I will get off this topic. LE never said the sketch was the kidnapper. They only said he drove. period. all the facts we know.



Allegations that she was uncooperative, that she gave a fake description or others like she might be the one visiting him every weekend, are all contrary to the known facts.


There's your answer.

****** :cow: *****

I never said she was uncooperative. I said that I could think of reasons why a victim may not cooperate and still be a victim.

And you can play games with semantics all you like, but LE very clearly said that the description of etch-a-sketch man was given to them by Abby and that it was the man who "drove her away."

I am going by the facts that we have right now. We have a description of a man who looks nothing like Kibby released on the 24th, which was the same day that Kibby walked straight into a police station and the police gave him his guns back.[modsnip] It is a very strange part of this case that I think is worthy of discussion here [modsnip]

[modsnip] The one person so far that has been accused of this crime was actually given his firearms back to him just a few days before he was arrested. I think that is odd. Again, I can only assume that he was not on LE's radar because the one witness had not yet provided them with the information they needed to catch him. [modsnip]

[modsnip]

I will start:

I wonder if Abby was blindfolded. Maybe Kibby always wore a mask when he interacted with her. Perhaps when you are totally dependent on someone for every single thing you need to survive for nearly a year of your life, you have some mixed feelings about them (totally reasonably).

[modsnip]

 

[Fireweed]

Match to what?

Again, where did LE say it was supposed be Kibby?
LINK Please
TIA

Well, look I am analyzing the facts that we have using logic. Kibby was charged with kidnapping Abby on October 9th between 2:30 and 3:00 on North South road, which is when we were told etch-a-sketch man "drove her away."

I am totally open to other explanations. I have gotten people picking apart my logic time and time again, but as of yet, I have not see one person who is doing that give me any sort of compelling and logical argument to the contrary. I am not hostile or sarcastic; I simply expect a certain standard here, and right now I am not seeing it.

If you think that etch-a-sketch man fits in logically with all the facts we have right now, then I am truly interested in hearing your theory.

 

[Mountaingazer]

:sigh:


View attachment 56711

Ha! I was just singing to myself "the posters on the thread go round and round. .."[emoji1]

 

[Teche]

Re: Etch-A-Sketch man: Does/did Kibby wear colored contacts? Could his have been tanned at the time of kidnapping? Could his weight vary? I do believe that if another person(s) involved, it'll come out.

 

[newguy123]

Perhaps it is the word false which is the offending word here? Was it "knowingly" false or was it merely less than 100% accurate. When I look at the sketch I don't see NK.....but that doesn't mean others can or can't see things the way I do. However, since LE said info. from Abby led to the arrest, there must be something between the sketch release and the arrest we are not privy to. I would think rather than argue over whether the sketch was accurate or not, the real question should be, have they arrested "the guy"????

 

[tlcya]

Use of the word false when describing information provided by a victim implies knowledge of doing so and I think that is where the offense comes in. JMO

Personally I do not feel the sketch resembles Kibby. I offer no theory or speculation as to if the sketch was meant to convey a resemblance to Kibby or someone else or why it does not IMO resemble him. I am content to wait for more facts that will probably make the circumstances of how LE arrived at Kibby as their perp much more clear. It is hard waiting for facts. But that is my plan.

 

[Fireweed]

Re: Etch-A-Sketch man: Does/did Kibby wear colored contacts? Could his have been tanned at the time of kidnapping? Could his weight vary? I do believe that if another person(s) involved, it'll come out.

This is sleuthing and this is what I expect here. Maybe someone else was involved, if so, who is he? What is his relationship to Kibby? Is he still out there?

Did Abby have almost no interaction with Kibby?

 

[Fireweed]

Use of the word false when describing information provided by a victim implies knowledge of doing so and I think that is where the offense comes in. JMO

Personally I do not feel the sketch resembles Kibby. I offer no theory or speculation as to if the sketch was meant to convey a resemblance to Kibby or someone else or why it does not IMO resemble him. I am content to wait for more facts that will probably make the circumstances of how LE arrived at Kibby as their perp much more clear. It is hard waiting for facts. But that is my plan.

Okay that is fine, but then why come here and post? I am being totally serious and not sarcastic. Surely this is a place where we shoot around ideas and thoughts with the facts that we have? Right?

And I know a lot of people here sign off with things like "JMO" but to me that is of course a given. We are all posting from our personal accounts with theories about this case. Unless we cite to some other source, everything here is naturally just our opinion.

 

[tlcya]

I feel there are plenty of things to discuss. Kibby, his property, the upcoming trial, what evidence do we feel the state is looking for, what forensic techniques might be be applied to this case, etc.

 

[Fireweed]

I feel there are plenty of things to discuss. Kibby, his property, the upcoming trial, what evidence do we feel the state is looking for, what forensic techniques might be be applied to this case, etc.

And you feel that we can discuss those things thoroughly without relating them to the victim?

 

[Coquette]

I would greatly appreciate someone who has a masterful understanding of the law, or perhaps works as a lawyer, to explain the use of the term "victim." It is my limited understanding that until a case has been proven and someone has been found guilty of a crime, the term is actually "alleged victim." Can someone please clarify this for me? Because it is in my opinion that once the word victim is used it closes the door to anyone who chooses to keep an open mind. I have done my fair share of jury duty and I have always heard "alleged" used for this reason.

I ask this with great respect to all those who feel passionately about this case and with no disrespect to the young girl in the center of this and certainly without judgement. I do not agree with the train of thought that this is a clear cut and personally feel there is still a lot of fuzziness about whet actually happened.

And I would never call an alleged victim a liar unless they were proven to be one just as I would never call an accused kidnapper a monster until I knew all of the facts.

Thank you. eace: