NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female, 23-33, & 3 Children, under 11, Nov'85 & May'00 #3

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squish said:
The thing is, affairs have always happened, unfortunately rapes have also always happened. Back before the 60's there was almost no way of dealing with/preventing pregnancies. We can't truly eliminate people based on official records because of the possibility that somewhere at some point in these enormous family trees, the incorrect paternity has been recorded and the Livings and Mitchell lines converged again without anyone knowing.
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This is true. We also have to take into account that there were possible adoptions. With the mom's ex example that I brought up earlier, he was also adopted in addition to using like five different aliases. When I say it took months to get my college application stuff together because of all the aliases he used and I'm just a tangential connection, I can't imagine how difficult it would be if MC's mom were adopted to try and figure out where exactly they would fit in that line.
 
squish said:
But it’s known that on Thanksgiving 1978 Marlyse and her daughters left California with Rasmussen and they never saw her family again.

Also, Rasmussen had a girlfriend who he called “Elizabeth” when he lived at Allenstown. Since this is Marlyse’s middle name some believe Elizabeth may be Marlyse.

This Elizabeth signed a letter on behalf of Rasmussen (Bob Evans) in January 1980.

During arrests in February and June 1980, he listed his spouses name as Elizabeth, but in an October 1980 arrest he doesn’t list a spouses name.

If this is accurate, and Elizabeth is Marlyse, they could have been killed between June-October 1980.

A few more disjointed thoughts:

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When talking to fellow Bear Brook residents, Rasmussen was said to have once’s referred to his pregnant girlfriend in disparaging terms.

This could have been Marlyse, if she had had another pregnancy but lost the baby, Middle Child’s mother if she had another pregnancy, or Denise Beaudin who appears pregnant in a 1981 photograph of her (I don’t know enough about her to know if she was definitely pregnant at that time).

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It’s clear from the long philtrum and upturned nose that MC shared these features with her father. I wonder if it would be worth looking at photos of her half siblings at the same age, to get a more accurate reconstruction?
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The pregnant girlfriend Rasmussen referred to in disparaging terms was Denise Beaudin.
 
@Shane 65 This was originally clipped by you/your group, were you able to track Evelyn down? And if so, if she's still alive, did you contact her and ask her if she knew anything about the MC?
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I was able to track her down this morning but have not made contact. She is currently alive and is ~70 years old, still in Chicago. Last names to look for in a current search would be Malinowski.
 
doyoulovemepfg said:
I was able to track her down this morning but have not made contact. She is currently alive and is ~70 years old, still in Chicago. Last names to look for in a current search would be Malinowski.
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Any relation to Zach Malinowski missing from Horry County SC a few years ago?
 
doyoulovemepfg said:
GUYS I JUST FOUND A POSSIBLE LINK TO ANOTHER CASE
Identified! - MS - Pascagoula, WhtFem Child 45UFMS "Delta Dawn", 1-3, Dog River @I-10, Dec'82 - Alisha Heinrich
There are TONS of family members in the Livings line that were from Pascagoula... like enough to make me wonder whether they have possibly DNA tested MC to see if she is related or if TPR was involved with that case.
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NamUs rep told me they compare unidentified remains to each other if they're in CODIS. So, if the two children were both in CODIS, it should have hit. However, the MC's DNA in CODIS was very degraded. Perhaps they need to compare her new DNA profile to her.
 
Alleykins said:
NamUs rep told me they compare unidentified remains to each other if they're in CODIS. So, if the two children were both in CODIS, it should have hit. However, the MC's DNA in CODIS was very degraded. Perhaps they need to compare her new DNA profile to her.
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I'm also not sure how close a relationship they would identify. If for instance the girls were second cousins, would that show up?
 
carbuff said:
I'm also not sure how close a relationship they would identify. If for instance the girls were second cousins, would that show up?
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I'm basing my reply on what we knew before Marlyse, Marie, and Sarah were identified because the MC's DNA profile today is of a different caliber, for lack of a better term, as it was back then. I think it's a more complex profile compared to what it was initially in CODIS. I'm not a geneticist, so I'm probably using the wrong terms to impart her DNA profile is different now, not the genes, but the strength of it.

As of 2015, all they had was mDNA for all four of them, that's all they could obtain, their DNA was so degraded. That's how they were able to determine the maternal relationship between Marlyse and her daughters, though they didn't know the kinship at the time. And it was how they were able to eliminate the MC as being maternally related to the other three. According to the AG at that time, their profiles were not of the same standard or of a high enough quality to compare any of their other DNA to the criminal database to see if there was some sort of paternal match to known criminals. Marlyse's DNA was so degraded, they couldn't compare it to TPR's, once they had it, to rule out any type of relationship between them. And they weren't able to determine any paternal relationship between the four victims. Of course, this was all before three of them were identified and the MC's DNA was put in the forensic genetic genealogy pipeline.
Having said all that, I believe it would have been possible to identify a maternal second cousin when it was in CODIS. Definitely not a paternal one at that time. I don't know if they have re-run the newer profile through CODIS, though. I would hope so.
 
onceuponadecember said:
For anyone else working on the tree, here are the two children who have been eliminated as possible ancestors:

- Peter Richardson Mitchell
- Roena Victoria Mitchell

There are four possible lines I’d ask you guys to look at:

- George Perry Mitchell
- Sarah Ellen Mitchell
- Amanda Emmeline Mitchell
- Thomas Zechariah Mitchell
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When you say eliminated, are you talking about DNA elimination?
 
onceuponadecember said:
I'm talking about elimination since there is either
A) No Livings-Mitchell connection
B) No evidence of an unaccounted for daughter
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The only branches on the Livings tree that I am straight up eliminating at this point are ones that either died before childbearing age or had only sons (if there is no connection to the other line). I’m about 500 people in on this tree and there are only about thirty for sure rule outs.
 
Alleykins said:
I'm basing my reply on what we knew before Marlyse, Marie, and Sarah were identified because the MC's DNA profile today is of a different caliber, for lack of a better term, as it was back then. I think it's a more complex profile compared to what it was initially in CODIS. I'm not a geneticist, so I'm probably using the wrong terms to impart her DNA profile is different now, not the genes, but the strength of it.

As of 2015, all they had was mDNA for all four of them, that's all they could obtain, their DNA was so degraded. That's how they were able to determine the maternal relationship between Marlyse and her daughters, though they didn't know the kinship at the time. And it was how they were able to eliminate the MC as being maternally related to the other three. According to the AG at that time, their profiles were not of the same standard or of a high enough quality to compare any of their other DNA to the criminal database to see if there was some sort of paternal match to known criminals. Marlyse's DNA was so degraded, they couldn't compare it to TPR's, once they had it, to rule out any type of relationship between them. And they weren't able to determine any paternal relationship between the four victims. Of course, this was all before three of them were identified and the MC's DNA was put in the forensic genetic genealogy pipeline.
Having said all that, I believe it would have been possible to identify a maternal second cousin when it was in CODIS. Definitely not a paternal one at that time. I don't know if they have re-run the newer profile through CODIS, though. I would hope so.
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Would they still be open to checking the newer profile against Alisha even though she has been identified? 40+ relatives of MC in Pascagoula and found deceased around the same time seems like it’s worthy of a deeper look even though in that case they have cooperating family of a deceased POI.
 
doyoulovemepfg said:
The only branches on the Livings tree that I am straight up eliminating at this point are ones that either died before childbearing age or had only sons (if there is no connection to the other line). I’m about 500 people in on this tree and there are only about thirty for sure rule outs.
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I'd also like to add a likely branch - Spiers. I'm 90% certain that this girl would've had at least one great great grandparent who was a Spiers, perhaps even closer
 
onceuponadecember said:
I'd also like to add a likely branch - Spiers. I'm 90% certain that this girl would've had at least one great great grandparent who was a Spiers, perhaps even closer
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I've had Spiers on my radar from day one. I'm surprised they weren't mentioned in the media, they're so interconnected with the two other families, if they're related to the MC. If we knew for sure whether or not the MC has any genetic relationship to the Spiers, it would definitely narrow down the focus. For example, if she had no ties to that family whatsoever, it would eliminate over half of the Livings-Mitchell descendants (I'm exaggerating, but it would be a lot).

If we can't find her amongst the known Livings/Mitchells, I'm also thinking it might be worth researching the known families TJ Mitchell boarded with after he ran away from home. I find it difficult to believe he would be celibate until he got married, which was in his 30s, and they never said in the media we were looking for descendants of William and TJ's AND their wives.

Does anyone know who we can ask about if there's any connection to the Spiers and if the descendant would be of their unions with their wives? I feel without some clarity we're kind of paddling against the current.
 
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onceuponadecember said:
I'm talking about elimination since there is either
A) No Livings-Mitchell connection
B) No evidence of an unaccounted for daughter
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There may be a connection between the families we don't know about, or several.
Even if not by direct union or by blood, but by in-laws or siblings marrying to an in-law family of the other branch, there was a chance of infidelity resulting in a child, and no one would ever know.
For example, as I'm sure others have discovered, TJ Mitchell lived in close proximity to his future wife when she was five, so he was most likely familiar with the Henleys for years before they got married. One of Lourana's brother's descendants married a Livings granddaughter. No Mitchell connection, but they were related by marriage and most likely the two families knew each other. I think TJ and William lived on the same street at one point.
And, for all we know, TJ dallied with one of Lourana's sisters or aunts. Or one of the daughters or wives of the families he boarded with before he went off to war. This is why I look at everything. Pages and pages of censuses, even after I've found who I'm looking for.
Also, when you say unaccounted for daughter, are you referring to the MC herself, or her mum?
 
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