NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female, 23-33, & 3 Children, under 11, Nov'85 & May'00 #3

[Alleykins]

I forget. What map is that for again?

@Hiraeth_
"According to the US Census Bureau, which divides the country into four regions, the South begins in Maryland and Delaware, branches out to West Virginia and Kentucky, extends south to Florida, and west to Texas and Oklahoma." I found this on Google.

 

[Susikatze]

What I am saying. She may be alive or passed naturally. TPR was so sneaky with his different aliases and places that I think it is possible one of his partners left their child in his care and went on with her life, maybe because the pregnancy was unwanted. She may not even have been aware of his story when it came out or she may have passed away before.
We all think along the lines of how a mother would do everything for her child. But plenty of mothers would walk out of their childrens lives.

@Irish_Eyes
I also found the Mitchell-Livings convergence in SL & CB line, and think that is the most promising one. However, it was easy for me to find, even with my limited genealogy skills, so easy, I'm thinking BRV must have found it, too.
Some of the living members of their branch of the family would have been around the same age as the MC's mother, and I feel they would have the best chance of knowing about her. I hope they contacted them.
Also, looking for a missing woman in that line may be limiting, in that we are assuming TPR may have killed the MC's mother. Though it's the most likely possibility, based on his pattern, it doesn't necessarily mean that's what happened to her. She could very well be alive now, or could have lived and passed away years later. We don't know how the MC ended up with TPR. He may very well have come by her legitimately. So, searches shouldn't be limited to deceased or missing Mitchell-Livings female descendants, just in case.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Not even just walk out.

For those of you who remember the story of Suzanne Sevakis, her mom tried to get the police to get her daughter back from Floyd, but those were different times and they just said no he's the stepdad, you married him, not our problem, according to what she told journalists later. And she did raise her other children and they seemed close to her and protective of her so it never sounded like a situation where she was just like "oh well." But like Rasmussen, Floyd was fond of aliases and without either a name to look under or a location she had no real shot, especially in those pre-internet days.

 

[ClaireNC]

Revisiting this timeline: Terry Rasmuseen timeline: Suspected serial killer's time in NH, across country

From what is known, it is possible that Rasmussen and the Unknown mother were living in Texas when the UID child was born. (Possibly in 1976). Also, it looks like he was pretty much using his real name up to 1978 or 1979 when he appears in New Hampshire as Bob Evans. It could be that he changed his name because of what/whatever happened to/with Unknown Mother or to hide from her because he took the child. Just a thought.

As others have speculated, I think Honeychurch was the woman using the name Elizabeth Evans and her and the girls were murdered between May and Oct 1980. From that point on, Rasmussen regularly took on new identities.

1975
June - Rasmussen is arrested in Phoenix for aggravated assault. It is believed that his wife and children left him shortly after the arrest.

1975 or 1976
December - Rasmussen visits his family unexpectedly in Payson, Arizona. He was with an unidentified woman, who police are still hoping to track down. He told his family he was living at the Casa Del Rey Apartments in Ingleside, Texas. His family never saw him again.

1976
January - Honeychurch and her daughter (Marie) are believed to be living in Santa Ana, California.

1977
Dec. 13 - Honeychurch's second daughter, Sarah Lynn McWaters, is born.

1978
At some point during the year, Rasmussen contacted a friend in Arizona, asking for money. He said he was working in Texas on an oil rig.

June - Rasmussen works for the "Brown & Root" Company in Houston, Texas. Records there indicate Rasmussen quit the job to work elsewhere.

Sept. 28 - Rasmussen's divorce is finalized, but his whereabouts are unknown.
November:
-- Honeychurch was last seen by her family on Thanksgiving at her mother's house in La Puente, California.
-- Honeychurch introduces her family to Rasmussen, who reportedly goes by his original name. This the only time Rasmussen has contact with Honeychurch's relatives.
-- Honeychurch's family believes she left with Rasmussen and her two daughters.
-- Rasmussen did not bring any children with him during his visit to La Puente, California.
-- Honeychurch had an argument with her mother and her family never saw her again.

1978-1979 (approximately)
Rasmussen works as "Bob Evans" at Waumbec Mills as head electrician. (New Hampshire)

1980
January - "Elizabeth Evans" -- who has never been located or identified -- signs a certified letter in Manchester, New Hampshire. Rasmussen is associated with the same address.

February - Rasmussen is arrested in Manchester, New Hampshire, as "Robert T. Evans" for issuing a bad check on Dec. 21, 1979 (insufficient funds). "Elizabeth Evans" is listed as his wife on the arrest report.
May - Rasmussen is arrested in Manchester, New Hampshire, as "Robert T. Evans" for theft of services (electricity). Rasmussen's spouse is listed as "Elizabeth Evans."

October - Rasmussen is arrested in Manchester, New Hampshire, as "Robert T. Evans" for diverting electric current. Rasmussen's spouse is not listed on this arrest report.

 

[folieadeuxnola]

I forget. What map is that for again?

@Hiraeth_
"According to the US Census Bureau, which divides the country into four regions, the South begins in Maryland and Delaware, branches out to West Virginia and Kentucky, extends south to Florida, and west to Texas and Oklahoma." I found this on Google.

Known or possible locations of TPR It came from the DOJ slides back in I think 2017 or 18

 

[folieadeuxnola]

A bit off topic .......... One thing that puzzled me is why it has never been mentioned how and where TPR and Marlyse met. I just feel like this had to be brought up to someone to a friend or family.

 

[Alleykins]

Not even just walk out.

For those of you who remember the story of Suzanne Sevakis, her mom tried to get the police to get her daughter back from Floyd, but those were different times and they just said no he's the stepdad, you married him, not our problem, according to what she told journalists later. And she did raise her other children and they seemed close to her and protective of her so it never sounded like a situation where she was just like "oh well." But like Rasmussen, Floyd was fond of aliases and without either a name to look under or a location she had no real shot, especially in those pre-internet days.

My mother went through something similar when we were toddlers in 1970, so I can vouch it was much different times when it came to domestic issues back then.

 

[Alleykins]

Not even just walk out.

For those of you who remember the story of Suzanne Sevakis, her mom tried to get the police to get her daughter back from Floyd, but those were different times and they just said no he's the stepdad, you married him, not our problem, according to what she told journalists later. And she did raise her other children and they seemed close to her and protective of her so it never sounded like a situation where she was just like "oh well." But like Rasmussen, Floyd was fond of aliases and without either a name to look under or a location she had no real shot, especially in those pre-internet days.

My mother went through something similar when we were toddlers in 1970, so I can vouch it was much different times when it came to domestic issues back then.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Authorities hope that someone will remember a Pearl River County woman and child who vanished decades ago. The child was born in the mid-1970s and was between 2 and 4 when she died.

Pearl River County is in southern Mississippi and borders Louisiana. Its population is about 55,500, according to the U.S. census. The county seat, Poplarville, is about 70 miles from New Orleans to the west and Biloxi to the south.

The MBI asked people on its Facebook page to repost its bulletin and to upload their DNA to GEDmatch or Family Tree DNA.

“Even if people don’t think they are related, anyone originally from the Mississippi region, which allows for the DNA to be examined, could potentially assist with genealogy efforts,” the post reads.

Strelzin said investigators hope to hear from people who know of a missing neighbor, friend or relative. Mississippi authorities will chase down leads to identify the missing person and then obtain DNA samples from surviving relatives. New Hampshire’s expert will compare them to the DNA of the middle child.

He said the effort has been going on for years.

“Given what we know about the killer, it’s likely she (the girl’s mother) is deceased,” Strelzin said.


The badly decomposed bodies of the Bear Brook victims were discovered in 55-gallon drums in 1985 and 2000.

All were beaten to death, and some had their limbs severed.

Authorities identified the killer in 2017 after a California woman used an open-data DNA genomics website to trace her birth mother to Denise Beaudin, who disappeared from Manchester in 1981 with her boyfriend, Bob Evans.

Evans was one of many aliases used by Rasmussen. He died in 2010 in a California prison, taking to the grave his secrets about the Bear Brook murders.

For two years, New Hampshire authorities knew Rasmussen was the Bear Brook murderer but did not know the name of his victims.

Doe Network amateur sleuths, who match up accounts of missing people and unidentified bodies, led to the identity of three of the four victims
Bear Brook investigation leads to southern Mississippi

 

[Shane 65]

Authorities hope that someone will remember a Pearl River County woman and child who vanished decades ago. The child was born in the mid-1970s and was between 2 and 4 when she died.

Pearl River County is in southern Mississippi and borders Louisiana. Its population is about 55,500, according to the U.S. census. The county seat, Poplarville, is about 70 miles from New Orleans to the west and Biloxi to the south.

The MBI asked people on its Facebook page to repost its bulletin and to upload their DNA to GEDmatch or Family Tree DNA.

“Even if people don’t think they are related, anyone originally from the Mississippi region, which allows for the DNA to be examined, could potentially assist with genealogy efforts,” the post reads.

Strelzin said investigators hope to hear from people who know of a missing neighbor, friend or relative. Mississippi authorities will chase down leads to identify the missing person and then obtain DNA samples from surviving relatives. New Hampshire’s expert will compare them to the DNA of the middle child.

He said the effort has been going on for years.

“Given what we know about the killer, it’s likely she (the girl’s mother) is deceased,” Strelzin said.


The badly decomposed bodies of the Bear Brook victims were discovered in 55-gallon drums in 1985 and 2000.

All were beaten to death, and some had their limbs severed.

Authorities identified the killer in 2017 after a California woman used an open-data DNA genomics website to trace her birth mother to Denise Beaudin, who disappeared from Manchester in 1981 with her boyfriend, Bob Evans.

Evans was one of many aliases used by Rasmussen. He died in 2010 in a California prison, taking to the grave his secrets about the Bear Brook murders.

For two years, New Hampshire authorities knew Rasmussen was the Bear Brook murderer but did not know the name of his victims.

Doe Network amateur sleuths, who match up accounts of missing people and unidentified bodies, led to the identity of three of the four victims
Bear Brook investigation leads to southern Mississippi

 

[Shane 65]

Not sure where they sourced their info but Rebekah Heath solved the case.

 

[mghose]

Stephanie Lee Smith – The Charley Project
I think I found the mom of Jane Doe.

 

[Hiraeth_]

Haha I was just going through people and saw her but I dont think the details add up. There is another one that I think might be more likely but still. I think doing some reverse geneology on them might narrow it down. But the one you said was kidnapped,no? So he would have kidnapped her, kept her, had a baby with her, then killed her and kept the baby for some time. Seems risky.

 

[Hiraeth_]

I was going to look more into Sharon Henley.

I was looking through missing person lists just to see if any surnames pop up. That family have a helpful trait of sticking a maiden name in as a middle name (something my family did and I had a weird urge to do at the point of registering my son) so I thought I'd just scan.

Side note and I hope this doesn't cause offense to anyone (I'm mixed race myself) but many of the self identified white people in LA are so obviously... mixed... reminds me of the confusion over DNA and physical features with Princess Blue Doe. I'm not putting any ethnic filters on missing person's searches because I am very aware that how this person identifies will likely come down to the shade of their skin and that of their immediate family and not their actual DNA iyswim.

I'm planning to try and see if any candidates have links to the family.

 

[mghose]

Haha I was just going through people and saw her but I dont think the details add up. There is another one that I think might be more likely but still. I think doing some reverse geneology on them might narrow it down. But the one you said was kidnapped,no? So he would have kidnapped her, kept her, had a baby with her, then killed her and kept the baby for some time. Seems risky.

I narrowed the tree down and one of the descendants had a Stephanie Lee Smith. But looking at it now the years are slightly off.

 

[UnlicensedPI]

I narrowed the tree down and one of the descendants had a Stephanie Lee Smith. But looking at it now the years are slightly off.

This is Stephanie's father's obit/an article about his life. Do her parents' names match your tree descendant?
A MASTER OF THE FINGERPRINT

 

[Alleykins]

Unless I've missed something, I'm not entirely convinced the MC's mum is a missing person. She may be, I've been wrong before, but there could be other reasons TPR ended up with their daughter, not all of them nefarious. It may be a case of her handing the MC over to him because she didn't want the responsibility anymore. I know this is the least likely scenario, but, as horrible as it sounds, I've met women who have done this.
I'm leaning toward the possibility TPR killed her, and she ended up not as a Jane Doe, but a known, unsolved murder victim. It could explain why he fled CA in 1978 and changed his name by the time he got to NH.

 

[Hiraeth_]

Unless I've missed something, I'm not entirely convinced the MC's mum is a missing person. She may be, I've been wrong before, but there could be other reasons TPR ended up with their daughter, not all of them nefarious. It may be a case of her handing the MC over to him because she didn't want the responsibility anymore. I know this is the least likely scenario, but, as horrible as it sounds, I've met women who have done this.
I'm leaning toward the possibility TPR killed her, and she ended up not as a Jane Doe, but a known, unsolved murder victim. It could explain why he fled CA in 1978 and changed his name by the time he got to NH.

So in this case, would the child be known and missing or nobody would even know she had a child? If she was identified, they would surely know she had given birth and the child is missing.

 

[Alleykins]

So in this case, would the child be known and missing or nobody would even know she had a child? If she was identified, they would surely know she had given birth and the child is missing.

If the MC's maternal family knew of her and that TPR was her father, there would have been little the maternal family could have done back then to prevent him from taking her. And technically, she wouldn't have been considered missing if she were with a parent, that parent would have every right to take her. Especially if they weren't married. That's what a lawyer told my mum back in the 70s, that she had just as much right to us as my father did and to just go take us back. So, she did. There was nothing he could have done about it. But the reverse was true. If he decided he wanted us back, he would have had every right to go snatch us back, and there would be nothing she could have done about it. But that wouldn't have made us "missing" just because the other parent didn't have us in their custody.

If the maternal family didn't know the MC existed, it would have been very easy for him to take off with her.

What I was trying to get across with my last post is there are so many possible scenarios as to how the MC came to be with TPR, including legitimately having custody of his daughter. Scenarios that don't involve him murdering her mother or the mother being a missing person or a Jane Doe, but those are still possibilities at this point. We won't know until we discover her and we shouldn't automatically assume she is a missing person.

 

[ClaireNC]

(snipped for space)
What I was trying to get across with my last post is there are so many possible scenarios as to how the MC came to be with TPR, including legitimately having custody of his daughter. Scenarios that don't involve him murdering her mother or the mother being a missing person or a Jane Doe, but those are still possibilities at this point. We won't know until we discover her and we shouldn't automatically assume she is a missing person.

Alleykins, I agree that there are other possible scenarios that should not be discounted. However, based on his pattern that later emerged, it's most likely that the MC's mother was murdered. With that said, I'm curious, were you in the US as a child in the 1970's or was your experience in the UK? I notice your use of "mum" rather than "mom".

I was a teen in the 1970's. In my experience, divorces were rare and children went to the mother by default. There weren't many fathers that fought for custody. The men usually just moved on and started a new family. If a mother died when her children were young, it was typically the mother's family that raised the kids.