NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

[Alleykins]

Since the deceased woman's mtDNA is in the system, it ought to have been picked up automatically.
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Agreed.
If the middle child's mother was a known murder victim, we'd never know because investigators would have had no reason to take/store her DNA. If her mother just gave over custody to RE, she may have died a long time ago to natural causes. I'm thinking if her mother were any of the known Jane Does w/DNA, they'd have matched.

 

[B.Winter]

If she was last seen in 84, it can't be her and her children found in 85

If I may, the mitochondrial DNA says they're related but not how. If it were to be Abigosis, I believe the most logical explanation would be that the two girls could be young cousins she was visiting or looking after for relatives in New Hampshire.

(It's far fetched, yes but could happen)


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[Alleykins]

If I may, the mitochondrial DNA says they're related but not how. If it were to be Abigosis, I believe the most logical explanation would be that the two girls could be young cousins she was visiting or looking after for relatives in New Hampshire.

(It's far fetched, yes but could happen)
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The are different possible maternal relationships between the three, like:
mother, daughter and niece,
aunt and nieces - who could have different mothers
mother and daughters
sisters
half sisters
three maternally related cousins

My thinking is, however, the more relatives involved, the more likely at least one of them should have been missed and possibly reported (like being aunt and nieces with two different mothers, or three cousins). That's just my take on things.

 

[Earth]

I’m starting to wonder if something like this happened.

A schoolgirl (probably between 13-18 years old) gets pregnant. Whether she consented or not is a different story. This takes place sometime in the early to mid-seventies. Her parents disown her for having a child (or maybe dad/stepdad/relative got her pregnant) and she runs away. Because she does so, and they disown her, they don’t report her missing.

While hitchhiking or in a shelter, she meets Robert Evans (who may or may not be using that name). He asks, “Why you here? It’s not safe.” She explains everything and he begins to feel as if he wants someone to live with him, either because he feels sorry or because he wants someone to clean up after him. He travels to another state with her where no-one knows him and when she gives birth, he tells people, “I’m her uncle and this is my sister,” because he doesn’t want this to ruin his relationships with other women.

Some years down the line, he meets the mother of the middle child and invites her to live with him. They may or may not get married. His child is then born. The runaway by now has a relationship with another man and may be living with him. Between the ages of 20 and 25, (if she died in her mid-twenties) she gives birth to the younger child. The family starts to look rather extended.

Whether this next part happens before or after he met Denise is uncertain.

Evans becomes sick of the runaway, or perhaps has an argument with her. “I should never have picked you up!”

“Well, you were the one who ran away! Do you realise how awkward it looks living in a house with three children by three different men? People are talking about us!”

“Well I think I want to go home! I don’t care if it’s been ten years; I should have put her up for adoption/told police about my rapist/got some help.”

“You can’t go! I still need someone to look after me!”

“You’ve been saying that for ten years and you never change! Do you even love us, Robert? Really?”

“I got (eldest daughter) pierced ears for her birthday, didn’t I? How many little girls do you know with pierced ears?”

“That proves nothing! (This next bit is speculation) Do you know what? I actually think you might be responsible for the disappearance of (local girls/women, or perhaps even murder, may or may not be in New Hampshire). That shut you up, didn’t it? Well, either you get me a train ticket home, or I’m telling the police about you. You don’t even need to worry about (eldest child and youngest child), I’m taking them with me. Yes, I’m going to miss (middle child), but frankly, she’s not my problem. You are!”

He then kills them in their sleep that night, loads up his car (or truck), tells his boss that he’s going on vacation or deciding to move to a different state and takes the bodies far away. He chooses Bear Brook because he spent time with at least one of the women in his life there and knows it’s a secret area, buried bodies there before or because it seems out of the way.

This last part happens sometime between 1980 and 1984, most likely 1982 due to available dates and estimated year of death.

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

He then kills them in their sleep that night, loads up his car (or truck), tells his boss that he’s going on vacation or deciding to move to a different state and takes the bodies far away.

I also believe he killed them in their sleep. That is the only way that makes sense to how someone could kill 4 people without an accomplice. I almost wonder if he initially didn't plan on killing his daughter, but she woke up and he felt she'd seen too much.

 

[Springrain]

Good thinking! Makes sense that he'd kill them in their sleep. I wonder if he killed them because he had developed an obsession with Denise, and didn't want the woman and the 3 girls getting in the way of his and Denise's relationship?

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

Yes, the victims were believed to have been killed between 1977-1981, but originally 1977-1985 before it was known BE left the area in Dec 1981. There is also the reference (I don't think the medium of reference was ever released) in 1980 (sometime in-between Feb-Oct) that he had a 6 month old (youngest victim) and a 2 year old (likely his daughter), and a wife Elizabeth Evans (adult victim). Notice the oldest child isn't mentioned; she could be a sister(young aunt)/cousin to the victims. I personally believe they were killed in-between May-Oct since there is no mention of Elizabeth after Oct 1980. Someone, I believe it was Alleykins (sorry if I'm mistaken), suggested they were likely killed during the summer since the oldest child was likely school aged.

One thing I noticed that isn't talked about often is the health conditions discovered among the bodies. There was the presence of pneumonia in the oldest child's lungs, BE's daughter was found to be anemic (causes can be poor diet; it's a vitamin deficiency), and the Adult victim had 3 teeth extracted during her life (reasons for tooth extraction vary, but most common is damage/decay.) All these suggest to me that our victims were potentially impoverished. Before BE was linked to them the victims were believed to be homeless, from an Indian reservation, or even them having been gypsies was mentioned.

I even wondered if they had escaped a polygamist cult. Families shun family that leaves, so that made sense to me why they never were reported missing. I even wondered if BE was from one, which could be why no one knows anything about him prior to 1977. It's far fetched I know, but circumstantially would make since to why no one knows anything about the victims or BE's past.
Update: I'm doing some research, and found some sects put falsified names on birth certificates, and those who escape are often without their identification (birth certificate, SS#, etc.)

I posted this in Robert Evans thread. Thought I'd post it here as well. (I snipped out some parts)

 

[Alleykins]

I posted this in Robert Evans thread. Thought I'd post it here as well. (I snipped out some parts)

I think it was SillyGoose and weatherstorm who were discussing dates, iirc.
I totally agree that they were impoverished, based on their teeth and health prior to their deaths.

On a side note, I had a thought pop into my head.
Does anyone know if D/L's DNA was compared to these four at all? I ask because you never know how a family's lives intertwine. Lots of plot twists so far, what's a few more?
My former neighbors children are not only cousins, they're also half-siblings. They were sisters who had kids by the same man.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I think it was SillyGoose and weatherstorm who were discussing dates, iirc.
I totally agree that they were impoverished, based on their teeth and health prior to their deaths.

On a side note, I had a thought pop into my head.
Does anyone know if D/L's DNA was compared to these four at all? I ask because you never know how a family's lives intertwine. Lots of plot twists so far, what's a few more?
My former neighbors children are not only cousins, they're also half-siblings. They were sisters who had kids by the same man.

I am pretty sure I heard none of them were matches to D/L. Which makes sense. Otherwise, guessing this case would be solved by now.

 

[Alleykins]

I am pretty sure I heard none of them were matches to D/L. Which makes sense. Otherwise, guessing this case would be solved by now.

I couldn't remember if they had, so I tossed it out there. I don't think they can do more than a mtDNA comparison, so most likely if Denise's DNA (which is complete now) isn't a maternal match of any kind, neither would D/L's, but I'm not sure if they can do a paternal comparison without the father's DNA, can they? They need to rule out that she's not related to any of them paternally once they know who her father is, I would imagine.
All I recall is that they ruled out RE as her father.

 

[Roselvr]

I think it was SillyGoose and weatherstorm who were discussing dates, iirc.
I totally agree that they were impoverished, based on their teeth and health prior to their deaths.

On a side note, I had a thought pop into my head.
Does anyone know if D/L's DNA was compared to these four at all? I ask because you never know how a family's lives intertwine. Lots of plot twists so far, what's a few more?
My former neighbors children are not only cousins, they're also half-siblings. They were sisters who had kids by the same man.

Evans was compared, he fathered one child, I really expected the little one too

 

[carbuff]

I am pretty sure I heard none of them were matches to D/L. Which makes sense. Otherwise, guessing this case would be solved by now.

Yes, that was said specifically in the press conference. I think everyone was quite surprised.

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[Alleykins]

Yes, that was said specifically in the press conference. I think everyone was quite surprised.
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I will have to go back and watch because I don't recall that about D/L, but I do recall hearing about RE not matching the other three, only the middle child.

 

[Alleykins]

I went back and watched the PC from this year, and didn't hear anything in regards to D/L's DNA being compared to the other 4 victims, only RE's. However, I did pick up on a few tidbits-
They were not able to compare RE's DNA to the adult female's to rule out any biological relationship due to the degradation of her DNA. They ruled it out on the likelihood they're not related but it's not confirmed.
They mentioned using the same DNA search engines/angels for the 4 victims that they used to find D/L's NH family. Wondering if that's been done. Does anyone know?
They mentioned doing some sort of further testing on the dirt from the cellar at Hayward. Anyone heard anything about what was done/possible results?
I'm thinking now that Denise's DNA tests are complete, they would know through mtDNA whether there was any relationship or not, which would be the same as D/Ls.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I went back and watched the PC from this year, and didn't hear anything in regards to D/L's DNA being compared to the other 4 victims, only RE's. However, I did pick up on a few tidbits-
They were not able to compare RE's DNA to the adult female's to rule out any biological relationship due to the degradation of her DNA. They ruled it out on the likelihood they're not related but it's not confirmed.
They mentioned using the same DNA search engines/angels for the 4 victims that they used to find D/L's NH family. Wondering if that's been done. Does anyone know?
They mentioned doing some sort of further testing on the dirt from the cellar at Hayward. Anyone heard anything about what was done/possible results?
I'm thinking now that Denise's DNA tests are complete, they would know through mtDNA whether there was any relationship or not, which would be the same as D/Ls.

I swore I read somewhere a long time ago that they compared D/L to the other four victims. I can't remember where. Maybe attorney general website? Or, I am totally misremembering. This weekend, I'll see what I can find.

 

[Alleykins]

I swore I read somewhere a long time ago that they compared D/L to the other four victims. I can't remember where. Maybe attorney general website? Or, I am totally misremembering. This weekend, I'll see what I can find.

If you can find it, I wouldn't mind reading about it. So much has been released since the pc anyway, I could have overlooked it.

 

[carbuff]

The adult woman's Namus: https://identifyus.org/cases/2174

Denise is on the ruleouts list.





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[Alleykins]

The adult woman's Namus: https://identifyus.org/cases/2174

Denise is on the ruleouts list.
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Yes, I believe Denise has been on the adult female's rule out list for a bit, I think within weeks of her disappearance being reported in the news, before her DNA was complete. I'm guessing it was done based on a dental comparison, since Denise has an overbite and I don't believe the adult female did.

 

[Earth]

Some further thoughts on my theory that the woman was a teenage runaway; if she DID run away, and she WAS reported missing...these girls were in the isotopes range.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/larosa_irene.html - 17, went missing from Ellington, CT, March 1971. Something I need to point out is that she simply walked out of her home and was only reported missing last year. Her age in 1981 would have been 27.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kramer_janet.html - 13, missing from Willmar, MN, January 1st 1971. (Unsure if that is exact date) Very few details available. Her age in 1981 would have been 23.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/miller_jeanette.html - 17, missing from Arlington, WA, September 16th 1970. Very few details available. Her age in 1981 would have been 28.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/cole_rose.html - 15-16, missing from Oakland, CA, 1972 - 1973. Had supposedly run away from a cult. Her age in 1981 would have been 25.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/britten_niki.html - 16, missing from Albany, OR, 1969. Something I need to note is that when she called up her parents a few months after she vanished, she said she was in New York (not sure if she meant the city or the state) which is a lot closer to Allenstown than Albany. Her age in 1981 would have been 28.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/groenenberg_corinne.html - 14, missing from Modesto, CA, November 1st 1973. Had been seen getting into a blue or green truck with an unidentified driver and had definitely been hitchhiking. Her age in 1981 would have been 22, which puts her at the start of the age range, but maybe it's possible that the four were killed after 1981.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mallon_kim.html - 13, missing from Los Angeles, CA, September 30th 1973. If I'm right, Evans visited Los Angeles. Her age in 1981 would have been 21, but as I said above, maybe the four were killed after 1981.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pickle_sherry.html - 15, missing from Long Beach, CA, May 16th 1972. She may have been with a male companion or tried to hitchhike to Los Angeles. Very few details are available. Her age in 1981 would have been 25.

I also considered whether this woman may be the mother of the middle child. https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/show/11802, Linda Miller, a Native American female from San Rafael, CA, went missing on or about July 1st 1973. She reportedly went to Guadalajara, Mexico, but never returned, only to be reported missing in 2001. And here's the clincher; she disappeared with a man named Cary Kristal, whom I can find nothing about. Doe Network states 'possibly' named Cary Kristal.

 

[carbuff]

Yes, I believe Denise has been on the adult female's rule out list for a bit, I think within weeks of her disappearance being reported in the news, before her DNA was complete. I'm guessing it was done based on a dental comparison, since Denise has an overbite and I don't believe the adult female did.

It could have been DNA anyway; since all but one victim is maternally related, as soon as they found out Lisa wasn't related to either of the girls, they knew Denise couldn't be the deceased adult.

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