NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

[Springrain]

he could be, or he could have drank himself to death, OD'd, or been shanked in prison by now. I believe the killer was some travelling worker who was also "on the fringe" (carnie?) has been abusive to subsequent partners and known to LE.

Respectfully BBM. I just keep thinking about him maybe having been a child molester, some prisoners have great hatred towards them. In any case, I don't think the world would suffer any loss over his death; the only problem is that he would have never been punished for these poor four's death.

 

[takeitfromme412]

My first thought was the Yates family. The Belanger girl would have to be distantly related due to what DNA turned up, but are there any articles that mention family members missing. Speculation= The Yates went to NH to stay with relatives and were in the wrong place at the wrong time. But someone needs to make a connection between the Yates and someone else missing at the same time. You would think a newspaper article would mention a familial connection.

Yates family and Belanger girl? Tammy Belanger? Can you fill me in on this yates family in nh?

 

[Fireweed]

I am going to go ahead and assume that LE has thoroughly looked into all leads, including girls who were kidnapped and missing persons who were never found.

I do wonder if a teenage runaway was kidnapped and just never reported missing. Something about that third unrelated child just makes me think that all these females were "voluntarily" leaving with a man who killed them and then claimed that the woman took the kids and ran off with another man or something.

 

[Tony1902]

I am going to go ahead and assume that LE has thoroughly looked into all leads, including girls who were kidnapped and missing persons who were never found.

I do wonder if a teenage runaway was kidnapped and just never reported missing. Something about that third unrelated child just makes me think that all these females were "voluntarily" leaving with a man who killed them and then claimed that the woman took the kids and ran off with another man or something.

I heartily agree with you about this likely scenario. I also agree that LE is missing the double-piercing. I was a single mom in the 80s, & it was considered edgy. It's easy to miss subtlety like this when you don't know what you're looking at or for, when the 'sub-text' of fashion & culture isn't clear.

 

[Fireweed]

Yes I think this where law enforcement very often fails. I think you can tell quite a lot about someone by their fashion and other things like piercings and tattoos, especially when you consider how those things fit into that particular time period. Double piercings in the early eighties were edgy. But on a little girl in New Hampshire? Unheard of edgy.

 

[Beamie]

This case is gonne be huge when it's finally solved

 

[EveDallas]

Has anybody look into various religious sects in and around the Midwestern States, could be they grew up in a religious sect that did not allow anybody to leave and that the girls could have been home school is there anyway of getting a lists of all places or people who home school their kids. Also they could of have to escape from this religious sect and was murdered for doing so. And maybe just maybe the father of the girls could be dead to, but they just have not found his body.

 

[Sabriel]

I thought about the Yates as well, but I think they were ruled out


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[kittylovesme]

I hardly ever post anymore but this case really bugs me. I was a child of the 80's so just some thoughts. Times have changed for sure since the early 80's but the one child who is not related to the oldest jane doe was likely the killers child. We always hear about non custodial abductions, but back then? Not at all. In fact police really did not like getting involved, and even today they wont unless a court order tells them to.
Now my thoughts are maybe the child was with dad for the summer and was never returned. It could explain why she was never reported missing or had a lot of attention to the case. Add if mom was young, maybe partied etc (not bad mouthing the mom we dont know who she is), and calls and says dad never brought back my daughter. Remember how differently people saw single moms. Remember Murphy brown and her becoming a single mom in the TV show, it was a big deal to talk about. If mom was young, single she might not have gotten much sympathy if any at all. If dad seemed remarried, new 'in tact' family the cops could have just told her to go to court because it was a civil matter. For a long time people thought you cant kidnap your own child. Were talking early 80s after all. Maybe someone needs to make sure areas in CA are also looked into since that yellow area does cover there as well, and not just focus on the dakotas etc. Mom also could have just been a migrant worker, not legal too.

Given the yellow line covers CA I lived there. The Coachella Valley had many migrant workers. Kids came and went. I went to school with migrant farm workers kids. We knew when theyd come back. Id be interested to know agricultural schedules. For instance in the summer and fall there grapes and orchards were picked, then they moved on to other states to follow the patterns of need. Many were not legal, again could explain a child not being reported missing. I think finding out who she is will be the key. There is a mom some where missing a child, who didnt get help or support when the child went missing. Times have changed and she could come forward now.

 

[CarlK90245]

I hardly ever post anymore but this case really bugs me. I was a child of the 80's so just some thoughts. Times have changed for sure since the early 80's but the one child who is not related to the oldest jane doe was likely the killers child. We always hear about non custodial abductions, but back then? Not at all. In fact police really did not like getting involved, and even today they wont unless a court order tells them to.
Now my thoughts are maybe the child was with dad for the summer and was never returned. It could explain why she was never reported missing or had a lot of attention to the case. Add if mom was young, maybe partied etc (not bad mouthing the mom we dont know who she is), and calls and says dad never brought back my daughter. The cops could have just told her to go to court because it was a civil matter. For a long time people thought you cant kidnap your own child. Were talking early 80s after all. Maybe someone needs to make sure areas in CA are also looked into since that yellow area does cover there as well, and not just focus on the dakotas etc.
That line too, if they had been in those areas also leads me to believe this was a traveling family, carnavel, migrants etc. I lived in the Coachella Valley, someone might want to hit up from of the farms in that area. We had A LOT of migrant workers at that time. They had their own camps, and traveled all over.

That reminds me of the situation with Suzanne Sevakis (Formerly "Sharon Marshall"). Franklin Floyd kidnapped Suzanne and her two siblings, but the cops didn't care, and wouldn't file a report, because he was married to Suzanne's mother. He wasn't even her father, but he was considered a legal guardian because he was married to her mother.

 

[Springrain]

That reminds me of the situation with Suzanne Sevakis (Formerly "Sharon Marshall"). Franklin Floyd kidnapped Suzanne and her two siblings, but the cops didn't care, and wouldn't file a report, because he was married to Suzanne's mother. He wasn't even her father, but he was considered a legal guardian because he was married to her mother.

Wow, those are kind of parallel situations. Both cases are horrible and really bizarre. I wouldn't be surprised if someone is still looking for her little daughter in vain.

 

[kittylovesme]

Yea I edited my post but times have changed. Remember the Murphy brown show? Lord I remember it being such a thing to talk about in church etc because she chose to be a single mom. Times were a lot different. Now being a single mom is not looked at the same way. But lets say she was a young woman, early 20s, illegal and a single mom? Dad doesnt bring the baby back. Cops think big deal? Kids probably better off. So they brush her off and do nothing.

 

[kittylovesme]

Also interesting info here. It was not until 1982 that schools had to legally allow children in if they werent legal. So that can also explain not having a teacher or anyone notice someone not coming back. If they werent IN school out of fear of being deported then no one outside the home would miss them.
Also the stats there show families are often split up. Dads one place, mom another, kids shuffled between. I think it might be worth looking into.

http://www.ciw-online.org/fwfactsheet.pdf

 

[Sherwood Park]

That reminds me of the situation with Suzanne Sevakis (Formerly "Sharon Marshall"). Franklin Floyd kidnapped Suzanne and her two siblings, but the cops didn't care, and wouldn't file a report, because he was married to Suzanne's mother. He wasn't even her father, but he was considered a legal guardian because he was married to her mother.

I think it's important to remember that police officers did care, but the laws around those times didn't allow for them to do anything about parents or legal guardians taking children. It was expected that the parent would go to court and file for custody and then something could be done.
We also have to remember that if a parent couldn't afford legal bills and didn't have the resources to search for a child (no internet, no facebook) it made it more difficult to find an abducted child and their parent. We also have to remember that is was much easier for people to obtain fake identity and change names without being easily traced.

There is nothing new about female single parenting; there were plenty in the 70s and 80s. For those of lower income backgrounds that was nothing new, this is how some people became low income, they had to take care of their children on one income with little to no help.

 

[kittylovesme]

That could be true but also look at the link I put up. It also shows on there getting anything in print for migrant workers was hard to do. I dont know if maybe it was a language barrier, or people simply didnt think to include them. Add also the act to allow illegal immigrants children access to school did not become federal law until 1982, and it could explain why no one knew them. Not all migrant workers are hispanic non english speaking either. There were many who did it because the money was quick to get. My mom did it in high school and college in the 70's and still talks about making $10-15 an hour. Back then that was nothing to turn your nose to. But I just think find out who that one little girl is and the whole case will crack open.

 

[Sherwood Park]

So today I was thinking a bit about the eldest girl. She had doubled pierced ears, and to me that is the best way LE has right now of solving this case. I sometimes think I am the only person who actually recalls the emotions that went with being a kid, not just the memories. I mean, this is huge.

No girl I ever went to elementary school with had double pierced ears.

I think LE is totally blowing their biggest lead here. Children, especially girl children, notice things like this. It is talked about. Something so edgy in the early 80's on a child that young would stand out to her peers.

There are women in their 40's today who went to school with a girl in the northeast who had double pierced ears and they remember her.

I am several years younger than the eldest girl and grew up in some rather liberal places and a young girl having double pierced ears was practically unheard of. Sure, in high school and jr high some of the edgier and more rebellious girls got a second piercing but no third grader did!

I am saddened to see this is just part of the basic description of this child when to me it should be the leading fact of the case.

I think LE would agree with you about the double piercing. I think that's why they mention the double piercing instead of simply stating that she had pierced ears. If you combine the odd teeth and the double piercing, this is a classmate (or neighbour, friend, community participant) who would really stand out.
Thankfully they haven't given up on this case and hopefully someone will remember something about one of the four victims.
I keep thinking that someone out there was looking for them or noticed they were no longer around, but for whatever reason hadn't reported them missing or encountered some road blocks in their search for one of them.

 

[carbuff]

The NAMUS case numbers are:

2173, the 5-10 year old female, at https://identifyus.org/cases/2173, death estimated 1982-1985
2174, the adult, at https://identifyus.org/cases/2174, death estimated 1982-1985
2175, the 4-8 year old, at https://identifyus.org/cases/2175
2176, the 1-3 year old, at https://identifyus.org/cases/2176 -- Melissa Bustamante has been ruled out.

I notice that 2175 and 2176, the two younger children, are listed as having died as recently as 2000, the year the barrel was found. Apparently they don't know for sure whether the second barrel was there when the first one was discovered. It was found very close by, and while it might have been overlooked, it might also have been dumped later. Weird but possible. So the 4-8 year old (the one who apparently isn't listed) and the toddler might have disappeared as late as 2000.

bumping the Namus information.

 

[carbuff]

Ruleouts for the youngest child:

Exclusions
The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent:

First Name Last Name Year of Birth State LKA

Melissa Bustamante 1996 Florida
Amber Crum 1981 Texas
Fannie Stuart 1976 California
Jessie Stuart 1975 California
Kelly Yates 1984 Rhode Island

 

[carbuff]

Ruleouts for the middle child:

Exclusions
The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent:

First Name Last Name Year of Birth State LKA

Amber Crum 1981 Texas
Fannie Stuart 1976 California
Jessie Stuart 1975 California
Kimberly Yates 1981 Rhode Island

 

[carbuff]

Ruleouts for the oldest child:

Exclusions
The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent:

First Name Last Name Year of Birth State LKA

Janice Pockett 1965 Connecticut