NH - James and Lizette Eckert, shot to death by their adopted son, 11, Alton, May 2019.

[janewall]

Thank you for the tip on the FB photo, @LaborDayRN. To me those boys look what I would call 'southwest Asian' or Middle Eastern - ranging loosely from Chechnya and Armenia to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, and the Arabian peninsula.

Given the boundaries of the present-day Russian state and the ethnic blending that occurred during the USSR years when so many Soviet citizens were relocated based on skill sets, population management by Soviet leadership, and purely political rationales, I'd certainly not consider them as NOT looking "Russian" nationality-wise, even though ethnically their biological relatives likely did not originate in historically Russian geographic territory.

I wonder if ethnic prejudice or strife played some part in the boys' becoming first wards of the Russian child welfare system, and then international adoptees. The article posted by @human about the conditions in Russian orphanages matches what I'd previously learned about child 'care' facilities in Russia and other former Soviet-bloc states. Several years of pervasive neglect and abuse in infancy could certainly explain one or both of the boys presenting profound, difficult-to-treat psychological and social deficits. This child's psyche may have been broken by being warehoused long before the Eckert parents knew he existed.

 

[LietKynes]

There is a a two year difference in the boy's ages.
The shooter is the younger boy.
Sorry I couldn't enlarge the pic.

 

[Cryptic]

I wonder if ethnic prejudice or strife played some part in the boys' becoming first wards of the Russian child welfare system, and then international adoptees.

Maybe, but I am guessing that the children could have come from international students.

During the communist era, the Soviet Union took in probably several hundred thousand international medical, engineering and other technical students.

The students were given a free high quality education- with a big does of communist ideology. Most of the students did not mind the indoctrination does because being at least somewhat friendly to communism was part of the requirements for going.

Anyways, almost all of the students returned home after their studies. Part of the Soviet goal was that they would work to establish socialist movements back home. Also, the Soviets were, well, not very multi cultural in regards to out of area immigration so staying was not encouraged.

Some, however, did manage to stay and acculturate to Russia. The children maybe descendants of these socialist students. Likewise, they could be children borne of modern international students who pay tuition to attend Russian universities.

They could also be children of legal immigrants, but Russia has still not warmed up to the concept of immigration, so legal immigrants as opposed to temporary visitors are very, very few.

 

[jjenny]

Thanks for linking ; that was a tough read, human.

Russian adoptions have been discontinued , though ?

With any adoption, the adoptive parents need to be told what the children are like, and why their parents relinquished them.
The Eckerts' may have been told nothing about these boys.

Yes, Russia stopped all adoptions to US several years ago.

 

[jjenny]

Maybe, but I am guessing that the children could have come from international students.

During the communist era, the Soviet Union took in probably several hundred thousand international medical, engineering and other technical students.

The students were given a free high quality education- with a big does of communist ideology. Most of the students did not mind the indoctrination does because being at least somewhat friendly to communism was part of the requirements for going.

Anyways, almost all of the students returned home after their studies. Part of the Soviet goal was that they would work to establish socialist movements back home. Also, the Soviets were, well, not very multi cultural in regards to out of area immigration so staying was not encouraged.

Some, however, did manage to stay and acculturate to Russia. The children maybe descendants of these socialist students. Likewise, they could be children borne of modern international students who pay tuition to attend Russian universities.

They could also be children of legal immigrants, but Russia has still not warmed up to the concept of immigration, so legal immigrants as opposed to temporary visitors are very, very few.

Some of those student also had children with Russian women out of wedlock and then left.
Although since there are two very similar looking brothers that theory is less likely. Seems parents were together for at least some time it took to produce two children.

 

[FrostOwl]

Why do you "want" those children to be of non-Russian descent? As I mentioned before in a post, there are about 185 ethnic groups in the country of Russia, and some of them have darker skin than Caucasian Russians, for example those from the Asian part of Russia, bordering to Mongolia and those former Russian republics whose names end with -stan. If the photo is taken during summer, he might be tanned and look darker than during winter.

 

[LietKynes]

Without much more to go on, we can only surmise what went on; including the adoption process and what the Eckert's may or may not have been told about these children's backgrounds !

If one or both parents of these boys were violent criminals, for instance, were the Eckerts warned ?

Everything has gone a bit silent, the only articles are older ones, or articles that refer to previous stories about this case.
These murdered parents deserve justice. I don't know that they'll receive it.

If this killer is out by 18 or 21 years old after being "rehabilitated"; I believe strongly that he'll go on to commit more crimes.
At least it's safe to assume that he is very troubled.
Killing your parents that you've known since the age of two years is as cold as it gets.

Eta : It would be nice to believe in total rehabilitation and that some children can be saved. This case depresses me, though.
He could get treatment, but be locked away at the same time.

I admit I'm angry for James and Lizette , their daughter, and other adopted son.
Pretty certain that none of the innocent parties saw this coming, and damn sure the parents didn't want to be dead.

 

[jjenny]

I think it's gone silent because the kid is a juvenile. So authorities can't talk about the case.
He is going to be out at 18 or latest at 21, those are the laws.
I also would have liked to know more about adoption, but there doesn't seem to be more information coming.

 

[human]

My sister adopted from Hungary. They were required to stay one month.

They had zero idea how abused the kids were until at some point they saw the cigarette burns and when the oldest girl started really acting out in middle school

She is in her 30’s now and seems to be ok. The younger one has FAS and will never be Ok

 

[jjenny]

Thank you for the tip on the FB photo, @LaborDayRN. To me those boys look what I would call 'southwest Asian' or Middle Eastern - ranging loosely from Chechnya and Armenia to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, and the Arabian peninsula.

Given the boundaries of the present-day Russian state and the ethnic blending that occurred during the USSR years when so many Soviet citizens were relocated based on skill sets, population management by Soviet leadership, and purely political rationales, I'd certainly not consider them as NOT looking "Russian" nationality-wise, even though ethnically their biological relatives likely did not originate in historically Russian geographic territory.

I wonder if ethnic prejudice or strife played some part in the boys' becoming first wards of the Russian child welfare system, and then international adoptees. The article posted by @human about the conditions in Russian orphanages matches what I'd previously learned about child 'care' facilities in Russia and other former Soviet-bloc states. Several years of pervasive neglect and abuse in infancy could certainly explain one or both of the boys presenting profound, difficult-to-treat psychological and social deficits. This child's psyche may have been broken by being warehoused long before the Eckert parents knew he existed.

Or it all could be explained by genetics and whatever substances they were exposed to while in utero. You are a program, programmed by your genes to do what it is you are going to do. Your genes program your eye color, your hair color, your height, etc. They also program your personality. But people tend to ignore genetics and try to blame anything else. In which case you can adopt a one day infant and result will still be the same. Russian orphanages might not be the best but they were not abusing children on purpose.

 

[PayrollNerd]

We went thru a 10 week adoption course about 26 years ago at the local university. It was taught by an adoption attorney who brought in speakers from adoption agencies. We were educated on what to look for in a child based on the country you wanted to adopt from. Much of it was interesting because at the time, the general population was quite ignorant of other cultures.

Russian infants were expected to have fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS). The Russian orphanages were so overwhelmed and the conditions were so poor, the child eventually suffered long term neglect.

We met one family who adopted two girls about 5 & 7. The family came and spoke and their heartbreak was profound. The older one did not display any disabilities. The younger one did. The parents were misled, flat out lied to about her health but were too far along in the process to back out. The sisters could not be separated. They had 2 biological sons also and this youngest girl was all consuming.

 

[jjenny]

Russia actually banned all adoptions to US in 2012. There were several Russian children adopted who died and that was used to justify stopping all adoptions to US.
One child died when his adoptive father left him in a car.

 

[kaen]

Maybe, but I am guessing that the children could have come from international students.

During the communist era, the Soviet Union took in probably several hundred thousand international medical, engineering and other technical students.

The students were given a free high quality education- with a big does of communist ideology. Most of the students did not mind the indoctrination does because being at least somewhat friendly to communism was part of the requirements for going.

Anyways, almost all of the students returned home after their studies. Part of the Soviet goal was that they would work to establish socialist movements back home. Also, the Soviets were, well, not very multi cultural in regards to out of area immigration so staying was not encouraged.

Some, however, did manage to stay and acculturate to Russia. The children maybe descendants of these socialist students. Likewise, they could be children borne of modern international students who pay tuition to attend Russian universities.

They could also be children of legal immigrants, but Russia has still not warmed up to the concept of immigration, so legal immigrants as opposed to temporary visitors are very, very few.

With all due respect, Russia has many ethnic minorities because it is a huge country. These minorities were majorities before their lands and ways of life were impacted by Russian rule. I have friends with children from Russia. Some are very Nordic looking/typical Russian looking with others being Asian looking with people assuming they are from China. This is not a descendant issue most likely. There are thousands of children in Russia that need homes in every region, in every color and hue, and among almost every ethnic group.

 

[kaen]

We went thru a 10 week adoption course about 26 years ago at the local university. It was taught by an adoption attorney who brought in speakers from adoption agencies. We were educated on what to look for in a child based on the country you wanted to adopt from. Much of it was interesting because at the time, the general population was quite ignorant of other cultures.

Russian infants were expected to have fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS). The Russian orphanages were so overwhelmed and the conditions were so poor, the child eventually suffered long t
erm neglect.

We met one family who adopted two girls about 5 & 7. The family came and spoke and their heartbreak was profound. The older one did not display any disabilities. The younger one did. The parents were misled, flat out lied to about her health but were too far along in the process to back out. The sisters could not be separated. They had 2 biological sons also and this youngest girl was all consuming.

Non-disclosure of issues is not unique to Russian adoption. Many countries do not have full disclosure of issues present. I know because I have adopted from other countries and experienced the same sort of non-answer/non-disclosure about concerns we asked about.

 

[PayrollNerd]

Non-disclosure of issues is not unique to Russian adoption. Many countries do not have full disclosure of issues present. I know because I have adopted from other countries and experienced the same sort of non-answer/non-disclosure about concerns we asked about.

I’m sure. I hope your family is doing well. We were educated on issues with lots of countries, Mexico, China, Canada, Philippines, Peru, etc., They each had their own specific things. Some good, some not so good. Domestic adoption (US) has issues too tho. None of it is easy and it’s all ungodly expensive. Parenting isn’t for the weak.

 

[kaen]

One of the hardest parts about having a child (adopted or biological) who has needs (emotional/psychological, physical or both) is the importance of building a community of support. With children with psychological issues, an isolated family begins to miss signs or miss how they are putting up with more and more concerning behavior because you lose perspective. So things like homeschooling and living in rural areas can be detrimental to making realistic plans to deal with the behaviors that you are seeing. I would guess that the tenor of their lives was degrading over time. It is so sad and traumatizing for their children who have survived. I am so sorry this happened to these parents.

 

[kaen]

I’m sure. I hope your family is doing well. We were educated on issues with lots of countries, Mexico, China, Canada, Philippines, Peru, etc., They each had their own specific things. Some good, some not so good. Domestic adoption (US) has issues too tho. None of it is easy and it’s all ungodly expensive. Parenting isn’t for the weak.

Absolutely true that we never know what has happened to our children before they were safe in our care.

 

[Cryptic]

I have friends with children from Russia. Some are very Nordic looking/typical Russian looking with others being Asian looking with people assuming they are from China.

Yes, I am aware of that as I am of slavic descent and have family members with both European and Turkic features.

Please note that I raised he possibility of the children being from an immigrant group in response to a poster who raised the possibility of being in Russia as a result of civil strife.

Russia has never been a destination hotspot for refugees. As a result, if the children are from outside Russia, guest students might be a higher possibility. The children could also be Russian (either ethnic or minority) as you mentioned.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He was very close to his "real" Mother and that is who he killed. He shot his Dad first, then his Mom and tried to kill his older sister, but the gun jammed. Was a good student. I have read everything there is to read about this case (Brandt). He is just one of many (but one that stands out) who murder at a young age, are released and commit something even more horrendous (if possible). And, yes, I do believe there are some people who are born without empathy or compassion for others. Daniel Marsh (48 hours, Portrait of a Killer) is another one. His taped confession shows an evil person who admits he has never felt compassion or empathy. Then there's the teenager in Brazil who tortured her 5 year old brother and ate parts of him. Born evil...IMO, yes. You are entitled to your opinion.

I absolutely agree with your opinion.

I read an article years ago titled iirc 'Can a 9 or 10 year old be a psychopath?' Iirc, It was written by the now adult man who said he knew he was one even at that age or earlier. He knows he will always be one, and knows they are never cured.

I do believe that certain individuals can be born a bad seed. At a very young age it is noticed they do not have empathy for anyone else.

At a very young age they tend to scream at the top of their lungs, and constantly cry because they become so engraged, throwing violent uncontrollable temper tantrums. They will rage against anyone who tries to calm them down.

Many are what I call flatliners with little or no emotional response concerning other human beings even if they rage, and cause emotional, and physical trauma to another human being. They can be very defiant in their conduct if anyone, including adults, who may dare to intervene while they are having their violent meltdown. It ticks them off even more when anyone tries to calm them down, and take control.

When not in a rage they often can be quiet, and aloof,and totally shutdown, and mentally removed from others around them.

Now I do believe that their environment may embolden the already disconnect they were born with, having a flat affect, along with being non compassionate with non existing empathy for others.

If this boy's parents were thinking the best way to appease him to have some semblance of peace, then they mistakenly emboldened his psychopathic traits even more. The worst thing that can happen is to constantly give into these type of individuals.

I don't believe home schooling had anything to do with this. They had other children in the same environment, and they never harmed their parents.

This happened because of this one kid only, who had the capacity within him to murder both of his parents.

God bless the broken hearted families who grieves such a terrible loss.

Jmo

 

[ksprincess]

From the only picture I've seen he definitely has some odd facial features and ears, without more pictures it's difficult to tell but I would guess he is not neurotypical and probably has some sort of syndrome whether that's fetal alcohol or something genetic. I worked as a social worker at children's mental health agency and for DCF and the scariest person I've ever met was a little girl adopted from China whose absolutely wonderful, experienced adoptive parents were terrified of her and wanting to relinquish their rights to her. I believe would have killed them or another child in their home if they had not relinquished her, she was very quickly adopted by another family who thought the adoptive parents were the problem and not the child and I've never heard about her again as they changed her name when she was readopted. The original adoptive parents faced lots of criticism and scorn over the way they parented her (attachment parenting as advised by numerous therapists) and then even more after they relinquished her.

Attachment disorders are serious and difficult to treat. Add that on top of anything else going on with this child. The parents probably had wonderful intentions when they adopted but probably got in over their heads and may have isolated from friends, neighbors and a school system that they may have felt was judging their parenting.