GUILTY NH - Kimberly Cates, 42, dead, 11yo girl maimed, Mont Vernon, 4 Oct 2009

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I'm reading on a forum right now where someone who knew the victims is posting. It's got lots of interesting 'insider' info but I don't think I can post that link here?
 
ebbie said:
I think it's a sign of the times Fairy. The movies, music, internet, video games all desensitize kids to killing and death. Sometimes its even glorified. Because the news blasts us with gory details, I think there are more copycats too. Look at how many bludgeonings of 4+ people have occurred in the last month or so. Its like a disease. Personally, I think its going to get worse until parents get a little more involved throughout these kids lives.
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How sad is it, that we can look at a crime and call it a "thrill kill" or a "sign of the times"?

I can't hold the media (news outlets, video games, internet, etc...), wholly responsible. I believe that some of the blame can be spread further. I don't believe that "parenting" is a problem, it's "bad parenting" that more concerns me.

I believe psychology (you can do anything you want to and you can't be spanked, scolded or otherwise, because you have a "condition") and "our" application, plays a huge part in these types of crimes.

I haven't seen results of a study, but I would almost bet my next year's earnings that a quarter of all crimes committed by people between the ages of 7-27 have been on some med/treatment for some psychological reason. I will venture further and say, I would almost bet my next year in earnings that half of the quarter of crimes are committed by people in this age group, have been diagnosed with ADHD or ADD, ODD, or some other "anti-social", "narcissistic" disorder, or bi-polar disorder.

ebbie, I do hope you know that I'm not arguing with your thoughts on the matter?

I feel that our society, the role of parenting, and our ideals are way off course. JMO.
 
RayStar said:
This is why women living in isolated areas need a dog or siren blasting alarm system. My first thought was how did they know a man was not there. Just a senseless crime.
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husband was apparently away on business and there is speculation that the house alarm was triggered & sent an automatic 911 call

I don't want to link b/c I'm not sure I'm allowed to & also not sure if we're allowed to speculate here ...

will delete if so

edited to add that according to this link, the brave little girl called 911

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Seriously+injured+11-year-old+called+911&articleId=a020b403-f684-466b-ac01-d36241a6e58f
 
MeoW333 said:
http://wbztv.com/local/mother.murdered.mont.2.1233100.html

"James Marks is shocked his son, 18-year-old William Marks, was allegedly involved in a plot to rob a home and kill anyone who got in the way.."
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from that link:

James Marks said the group was at his home just hours before Cates was killed, and that Spader had showed him a knife during that time. "I said, 'Get rid of it. You don't need any hassles. Leave it at home. Don't drive around with it, because if you get pulled over, if it's illegal, you're in trouble.'"

I'm not even going to comment. :furious:
 
Boyz_Mum said:
How sad is it, that we can look at a crime and call it a "thrill kill" or a "sign of the times"?

I can't hold the media (news outlets, video games, internet, etc...), wholly responsible. I believe that some of the blame can be spread further. I don't believe that "parenting" is a problem, it's "bad parenting" that more concerns me.

I believe psychology (you can do anything you want to and you can't be spanked, scolded or otherwise, because you have a "condition") and "our" application, plays a huge part in these types of crimes.

I haven't seen results of a study, but I would almost bet my next year's earnings that a quarter of all crimes committed by people between the ages of 7-27 have been on some med/treatment for some psychological reason. I will venture further and say, I would almost bet my next year in earnings that half of the quarter of crimes are committed by people in this age group, have been diagnosed with ADHD or ADD, ODD, or some other "anti-social", "narcissistic" disorder, or bi-polar disorder.

ebbie, I do hope you know that I'm not arguing with your thoughts on the matter?

I feel that our society, the role of parenting, and our ideals are way off course. JMO.
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Thank you Boyz_Mum. But I really have to wonder why so many kids today are considered ADHD or ADD or ODD. This is a fairly new phenomenon and there must be an explanation. Then again, even if kids do suffer from these disorders, are they prone to violent, murderous acts? IDK, but it worries me.

I also have to say, and I know many will not care for this; it concerns me that the husband was "out of town" when this occurred. That is a bit of a red flag to me. If these boys chose this house randomly, how could they have known the husband/dad was away? Maybe they really didn't care, but it's still a bit odd to me...
 
Maybe they had prior knowledge and it wasn't as random as LE is suggesting:

"Amherst is home to Clark and Wilkins Elementary schools, Amherst Middle School and Souhegan High School, the latter two of which also educate the children of neighboring Mont Vernon."

The Cates 11 year old daughter attended the same schools as some of the killers and the killers brothers/sisters et al did. Many other ways they could've known the husband was often out of town and that he'd be out of town that night in such a small community.
 
thesaint said:
Maybe they had prior knowledge and it wasn't as random as LE is suggesting:

"Amherst is home to Clark and Wilkins Elementary schools, Amherst Middle School and Souhegan High School, the latter two of which also educate the children of neighboring Mont Vernon."

The Cates 11 year old daughter attended the same schools as some of the killers and the killers brothers/sisters et al did. Many other ways they could've known the husband was often out of town and that he'd be out of town that night in such a small community.
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the four accused are from two different towns than the victims; I kinda doubt they had any inside knowledge, unless there's a link between families that police aren't talking about - the prosecutor & police have repeatedly said the crime was random

not saying it isn't possible, just unlikely from what I can gather
 
Boyz_Mum said:
It's hard to read about this crime without getting physically sick, knowing that there are people like this out here.

We've been mulling over getting an alarm on the house. This crime is reason enough not to put it off any longer.
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The doors may not have been even locked cos most in this small rural town do not feel it's necessary..I will never get this POV..It's a fact this home was targeted cos it is so isolated..One of only 4 homes on a long & lonely dirt road in the woods..When will everyone finally get crimes like this do happen everywhere cos there are ppl like this no matter where we live!..These (evil) perps are all local teens who killed for a thrill & more just like them are out there..Scary as hell but true! :furious:
 
Right, but the residents of Mont Vernon send their kids to Amherst for school--the town and school system that 2 of the killers are from:

"William Marks, 18, and Quinn Glover, 17, both Souhegan High School students from Amherst, also allegedly were armed with deadly weapons when they entered the home to steal."

Guessing the daughter attended the same middle school the killers did when they were that age and if the killers had family her age or family/friends who were employed in the school system or whatever, they'd likely know the girl.

The other 2 are from Brookline, further away.

Have any of the killers made any kind of formal statement or confession or talked to police at all?
 
Looks like the daughter went to Mont Vernon Village school, but the older students end up attending the same high school as the killers:

"Pat Savo said her 11-year-old daughter, Tiana, is extremely close with Jaime, who remains in a Boston hospital.

"My daughter slept at the Cates' house easily 100 times," said Savo. "Tiana loved going there, loved Kim not as you would a friend's mom, but as you would a special aunt. Kim was a fun, cool mom."

Savo said her daughter has been terrified since word of the attacks surfaced Sunday, and has slept with her parents for two nights.

Savo's oldest son, Daniel, is a student at Souhegan High School, which Marks and Glover attended. She said Daniel came home from school yesterday, shocked that Marks -- whom he knew through friends -- was arrested."

http://www.theunionleader.com/artic...rticleId=08d55e6a-e7ab-4b87-91f3-cb9f47b4f24c
 
Fairy1 said:
I also have to say, and I know many will not care for this; it concerns me that the husband was "out of town" when this occurred. That is a bit of a red flag to me. If these boys chose this house randomly, how could they have known the husband/dad was away? Maybe they really didn't care, but it's still a bit odd to me...
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snipped

I don't believe they cared at all cos they were on a mission to rob but more so to kill..Especially the ring leader who makes it kinda obvious on his MS.
 
thesaint said:
Have any of the killers made any kind of formal statement or confession or talked to police at all?
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snipped

It seems one (or more?) spilled info or we would not know some of what we do re: the commission of the crime.
 
amysmom said:
snipped

It seems one (or more?) spilled info or we would not know some of what we do re: the commission of the crime.
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Oh, yeah, that's true. Perhaps a self-serving statement from one of the 18 year olds accused of this crime? Although those too often turn out to be less than a 100% accurate.
 
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