NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #10

[BillNH]

Those are interesting questions but after ten years and absolutely zero progress, I am going to have to assume that none of those things resulted in uncovering anything material that might solve this case.

I can hardly disagree with that. Maybe there was no crime. Maybe there was nothing to find in Haverhill, NH. I understand the frustration from the lack of results, but they clearly put some effort into it to generate over 2200 pages of data.

 

[Fireweed]

I know that cops monitor funerals and crime scenes for suspects but I honestly believe that the cops up there were monitoring this site for help. They did not have printouts from any other sites where a perp might post; just this one.

Also 2200 pages is really not that much. It sounds like a lot, but it would be a reasonable amount of pieces of paper to generate in even an anemic investigation. I can wind up easily printing 500 pages a day at my job. Things pertaining to the law just seem to use a lot of paper.

 

[BillNH]

I know that cops monitor funerals and crime scenes for suspects but I honestly believe that the cops up there were monitoring this site for help. They did not have printouts from any other sites where a perp might post; just this one.

Also 2200 pages is really not that much. It sounds like a lot, but it would be a reasonable amount of pieces of paper to generate in even an anemic investigation. I can wind up easily printing 500 pages a day at my job. Things pertaining to the law just seem to use a lot of paper.

Well perhaps a POI was posting here, but since by your standards it did not result in an arrest so it's not material and means LE doesn't know anything.

 

[Lolacat]

In a previous thread I did some checking into what phase the moon was in on that fateful night and found IIRC it was a few days or week past full. I don't know if it was cloudy or clear that night, but if clear there would have been some moonlight – but probably late rising... Figure it would have to be later at night before providing enough light to traverse going anywhere.

But as far as making run for it – as a night runners (wife and I), cannot see doing so without flashlight – too many stones and icy spots. Check the condition of the road after snowfall and plowing in the video back a few posts...

The question of whether she had a flashlight, or liked using one has never been answered.

Speaking of unanswered questions – AFAIK, her car was never really tested to see what condition it really was in.
I always thought if it was in really poor condition, backfiring or smoking, it could have attracted unwanted attention, akin to a shark discovering and following a wounded prey for some distance before moving in.

I've followed many cases and based on that I'd say she was taken – either willingly getting into someone's vehicle, or being struck and grabbed.

If the accident wasnt planned then she may not have had a flashlight with her. I was also wondering about Rick Forcier's sighting, which puts her going East on route 112, 4-5 miles from the accident scene between 8 and 8.30pm. *IF* we assume this is Maura, where would she be heading? Are there places to stay in that direction? where does route 112 go? Does anyone know?

 

[OldSteve]

If the accident wasnt planned then she may not have had a flashlight with her. I was also wondering about Rick Forcier's sighting, which puts her going East on route 112, 4-5 miles from the accident scene between 8 and 8.30pm. *IF* we assume this is Maura, where would she be heading? Are there places to stay in that direction? where does route 112 go? Does anyone know?

We know according to Fred that he made up an emergency kit of some sort, and that's where the red rag came from... I would think a flashlight would have been part of that, but it's never been answered.

Also, we know MM was a runner, but did she run at night and use a light of some kind, as I used to do... again, no one has the answer to that.

Also, was she in the habit of not unpacking her things when she moved into a dorm room - another question it would be interesting to know...

Regarding RF - I had read that he all he saw was someone with a sweatshirt that hid the person's face, or the person running turned away (can't remember which) – so he didn't really see and ID MM... it's strange he took so long to come forward since his house was so close to the activity on the night she went missing...

Had I been MM I would have sought shelter in his under construction house that was presumably empty that night near the crash... But my wife says no way would a gal do that...

ETA - if you believe in the doing the Squaw Walk theory - then she was heading to the mountains (but no way IMO could she do it running... Otherwise, if she simply wanted to lay low for the night, I think she would have headed back toward a place she had passed by since she she would have been familiar the that... or, she might have headed toward what appeared to be field (the Wild Ammonoosuc River) that was snow covered (assuming it was) and fallen thru the ice. There were photos of river posted back a number for thread ago...

I'll try doing a search..

ETA - here a clips showing the river when suddenly than ice blockage lets go.. (another thing that could have happened)
Ice Flow/Jam Footage - YouTube

 

[scoops]

If the accident wasnt planned then she may not have had a flashlight with her. I was also wondering about Rick Forcier's sighting, which puts her going East on route 112, 4-5 miles from the accident scene between 8 and 8.30pm. *IF* we assume this is Maura, where would she be heading? Are there places to stay in that direction? where does route 112 go? Does anyone know?

My best guess has always been that Maura was heading east on Rt. 112 because (on a map) it appears to be a shortcut towards the Bartlett area and areas she was quite familiar with from earlier hiking adventures. She had been an avid hiker since she was a small child.

Otherwise, Maura should have stayed on the interstate in the first place and looped back south by changing over to I-93 (even though it appears like a longer route, in the winter time, it was shorter).


Here is a map of a route from Amherst to Bartlett. You can see getting off at the 302 (which leads to Rt. 112) seems like a shortcut to get to Bartlett instead of having to go up towards st. johnsbury and Littleton and looping back south.


https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...iUDB-ykbH0X5_J6zTDHO_6Q99TxJYg&mra=ls&t=m&z=9



Here is the route, it is believed Maura actually took comring from I-91

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...MrC-ykl0cD10QmzTDEWsZhbkJ0WGw&mra=ls&t=m&z=11

 

[BillNH]

If the accident wasnt planned then she may not have had a flashlight with her. I was also wondering about Rick Forcier's sighting, which puts her going East on route 112, 4-5 miles from the accident scene between 8 and 8.30pm. *IF* we assume this is Maura, where would she be heading? Are there places to stay in that direction? where does route 112 go? Does anyone know?

East on 112 goes to North Woodstock and Lincoln. Roughly 16 miles from the accident scene and 11 miles from where RF's sighting was. There are ski areas and lodging in both places(they are essentially connected so there is no real distinction between the 2 places) 112 is very narrow, curvy and bumpy between the accident scene and RF's sighting but then widens, smooths and straightens a bit but starts its uphill climb to Beaver Pond and Lost River caves. Shortly after Beaver Pond the downhill starts until you get to North Woodstock. I think the rise is about 2000' at a long gradual grade from the sighting spot to the top of the hill. Between the RF sighting spot and North Woodstock there is only Lost River Caves and Beaver Pond, it is completely inside the White Mountain National Forest. Not much for houses on the way until you get within a mile or so of North Woodstock. Unreserved lodging would have been difficult if not impossible in early February because of the skiers. I93 runs through Lincoln so if she made it there, she could make it anywhere (to paraphrase a line from Frank Sinatra).

 

[BillNH]

We know according to Fred that he made up an emergency kit of some sort, and that's where the red rag came from... I would think a flashlight would have been part of that, but it's never been answered.

Also, we know MM was a runner, but did she run at night and use a light of some kind, as I used to do... again, no one has the answer to that.

Also, was she in the habit of not unpacking her things when she moved into a dorm room - another question it would be interesting to know...

Regarding RF - I had read that he all he saw was someone with a sweatshirt that hid the person's face, or the person running turned away (can't remember which) – so he didn't really see and ID MM... it's strange he took so long to come forward since his house was so close to the activity on the night she went missing...

Had I been MM I would have sought shelter in his under construction house that was presumably empty that night near the crash... But my wife says no way would a gal do that...

ETA - if you believe in the doing the Squaw Walk theory - then she was heading to the mountains (but no way IMO could she do it running... Otherwise, if she simply wanted to lay low for the night, I think she would have headed back toward a place she had passed by since she she would have been familiar the that... or, she might have headed toward what appeared to be field (the Wild Ammonoosuc River) that was snow covered (assuming it was) and fallen thru the ice. There were photos of river posted back a number for thread ago...

I'll try doing a search..

BBM

There is no place on that river that would have let her fall through any further than to her knee. The riverbed is mostly rock and a small shallow stream meanders through the rock. Other than spring thaw, I have never seen the water cover even the small rocks.

 

[OldSteve]

Thanks BillNH! So that's one thing we can take off the table - her mistaking the frozen river and falling in.

 

[Lolacat]

Thank you old steve, scoops and Bill for the info. I am in the tiny UK and forget how vast USA is sometimes lol. Seems like her chance of lodgings was slim to none then. I can't imagine having to navigate all that, in the dark and after drinking, no matter how good I was at running. Adrenaline will take you far of course, but it seems like it would be pretty treacherous in Feb. The river looks brutally cold.

The fact that she left the scene so quickly- (there was no time for dithering about or thinking it through), refused help, and just ran off seems to me like she knew exactly where she was heading.

 

[scoops]

Thank you old steve, scoops and Bill for the info. I am in the tiny UK and forget how vast USA is sometimes lol. Seems like her chance of lodgings was slim to none then. I can't imagine having to navigate all that, in the dark and after drinking, no matter how good I was at running. Adrenaline will take you far of course, but it seems like it would be pretty treacherous in Feb. The river looks brutally cold.

The fact that she left the scene so quickly- (there was no time for dithering about or thinking it through), refused help, and just ran off seems to me like she knew exactly where she was heading.

Even though the dog searches were just good for a starting location (Maura heading east from her car), I do still believe she could've accepted help and a ride from a stranger and that nothing sinister had to have happened.

But she could've remained on foot as well. It's always troubled me that she took the alcohol with her and her backpack which she emptied out to put the bottles in.

If she was just wanting to dump the bottles, I wouldn't think she would need her backpack as well.

I think she planned on carrying the alcohol for quite a distance.

A good samaratin that picks her up is only going to see her with a backpack and not assume anything by that other than a young woman who needs a lift.

If her goal was to get about 20 more miles east, than a stranger could've easily helped her accomplish that and at the same time got her away from the car accident site as well.

 

[Fireweed]

If Maura was in good shape, I think she could have traveled 16 miles on foot that night, and just ducked off the road whenever a car approached. As I understand it, that road would have had very little traffic at night that time of year.

Though I do not think that Maura was driving "in tandem" with someone that night, I still find it totally possible that she was meeting up with someone.

 

[OldSteve]

Even though the dog searches were just good for a starting location (Maura heading east from her car), I do still believe she could've accepted help and a ride from a stranger and that nothing sinister had to have happened.

But she could've remained on foot as well. It's always troubled me that she took the alcohol with her and her backpack which she emptied out to put the bottles in.

If she was just wanting to dump the bottles, I wouldn't think she would need her backpack as well.

I think she planned on carrying the alcohol for quite a distance.

A good samaratin that picks her up is only going to see her with a backpack and not assume anything by that other than a young woman who needs a lift.

If her goal was to get about 20 more miles east, than a stranger could've easily helped her accomplish that and at the same time got her away from the car accident site as well.

BBM - I did not know that - you mean they found her stuff from her backpack in her car?

 

[scoops]

BBM - I did not know that - you mean they found her stuff from her backpack in her car?

Correct, but I guess it could still fall under the category of assumption.

Her school books (reference guides) and her notebook were left in her car, she is believed to have departed from her car with a black jacket on, jeans, the dexter shoes, her phone (but no charger, she left that behind), her backpack, a few bottles of alcohol and possibly a Gucci Watch on her wrist.

 

[Fireweed]

This is going to sound a bit weird, but it might be worth calling some hotels in the area on a Monday in early February to see which ones typically have rooms available in that area for that night.

 

[goldiegirl]

This is going to sound a bit weird, but it might be worth calling some hotels in the area on a Monday in early February to see which ones typically have rooms available in that area for that night.

It doesn't sound weird at all. I would hope that something like this had already been done in the beginning. After 10 years I'm sure things are completely different now.

 

[Lolacat]

This is going to sound a bit weird, but it might be worth calling some hotels in the area on a Monday in early February to see which ones typically have rooms available in that area for that night.

Not weird at all. I thought the same. In fact, I am amazed that noone took a photo of Maura around all the lodgings in the area to see if they recognised her or if she attempted to get a room. Or, did this happen? I dont recall reading anything about this happening, if it did.

 

[Lolacat]

Even though the dog searches were just good for a starting location (Maura heading east from her car), I do still believe she could've accepted help and a ride from a stranger and that nothing sinister had to have happened.

But she could've remained on foot as well. It's always troubled me that she took the alcohol with her and her backpack which she emptied out to put the bottles in.

If she was just wanting to dump the bottles, I wouldn't think she would need her backpack as well.

I think she planned on carrying the alcohol for quite a distance.

A good samaratin that picks her up is only going to see her with a backpack and not assume anything by that other than a young woman who needs a lift.

If her goal was to get about 20 more miles east, than a stranger could've easily helped her accomplish that and at the same time got her away from the car accident site as well.

If we assume she was suicidal, and she was picked up by a good samaritan then she would have had to conceal that fact and make up a cover story. Noone in their right minds would drop a young girl, alone in the dark, at the entrance to the white mountains at night. Plus, thats the kind of odd request that you would always remember. Much less memorable is giving a lift to a college student further up the road, nearer to civilisation and places to stay. (Even if she did then double back and head into the mountains).

 

[BillNH]

Correct, but I guess it could still fall under the category of assumption.

Her school books (reference guides) and her notebook were left in her car, she is believed to have departed from her car with a black jacket on, jeans, the dexter shoes, her phone (but no charger, she left that behind), her backpack, a few bottles of alcohol and possibly a Gucci Watch on her wrist.

I think the alcohol is still in question. Renner's site says:

No alcohol missing.



Official word from Haverhill PD: all booze was accounted for. Vodka. Baileys. Wine. Maura left it all behind in the car.



Like I said, little things have been mis-reported for years. Best to start from the ground up and see where it takes us.

(July 2011) http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011_07_01_archive.html

I asked him about it here on WS a week or so ago and he replied he was trying to confirm.

 

[BillNH]

If we assume she was suicidal, and she was picked up by a good samaritan then she would have had to conceal that fact and make up a cover story. Noone in their right minds would drop a young girl, alone in the dark, at the entrance to the white mountains at night. Plus, thats the kind of odd request that you would always remember. Much less memorable is giving a lift to a college student further up the road, nearer to civilisation and places to stay. (Even if she did then double back and head into the mountains).

BBM

This is not as crazy as you may think. There are some real nomads out there that actually hike and camp during the winter in the WMNF so while there is not an abundance of these folks, there are some. A quick explanation to a good Samaritan that she had a campsite a little ways into the woods, up the road a bit and needed a lift due to car trouble may have sufficed.