NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #10

[Lolacat]

Well someone might want to relay that to Fred then.

He has been adamant over the years that police let him know what the off-duty officer was up to that night.

Has Fred implied that there was something sinister about this?

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

Just for debate purposes:

1. -- She only had a pair of sweatpants and a sweater and some sort of a throw(blanket) from what I have seen as well as some undergarments. --- A very similar (maybe even exact) outfit can be seen in a picture that was taken with her and her father (likely just a few months earlier) in which they are posing on a summit. Maura is wearing a black sweater/jacket and gray sweatpants in the photo. The photo I am referring to can be seen in that chronicle piece.

2. But why not grab her bag. That would've taken 5 seconds and it was a bag she specifically packed for her trip. If she was meeting up with someone down the road, she could've brought the bag with her.

3. that is a stretch. a pre-arranged location is one thing. But to have the pre-arranged location conviently near where she unexpectedly wrecked (in the middle of nowhere) doesn't add up in my book IMO.

4. I agree with your conclusion here. She likely continued drinking and there is a slim chance she just wanted to ditch the bottles of alcohol.

5. the book could be as you point out. But there has been several versions of why Maura had this book with her (introduced by family and family spokespeople over the years).
One version is that Fred loved the book so much that he handed the book over to each of his kids to read, and it just happened to be Maura's turn to have the book at the time she went missing.

Another version is that it was Maura's favorite book and she carried it with her everywhere she went.

People, she is nearing the entrance of the white mountains and she has a book about the white mountains. I find that too much of a coincidence and something (that if I didn't want to believe she was there to do personal harm to herself) I would try and come up with a story as to why she had the book to help explain it away.

6. that point works very well with someone who wants to end their life, (yet doesn't want to make things even more difficult for family members, so they pack up their things in their dorm knowing that family would have to tend to it at a later date.

7. I agree that she was stressed out (which can lead to poor decision making). But, in some regards, she was also focused enough to slip away and never be heard from again. She definitely comes across as someone that developed a plan and implemented that plan, not someone who was just all over the place operating by the seat of their pants.

8. I still find the time that she left her school campus odd. If she was in fact going to the white mountains, (She would've known) that she would have arrived into the forest in the pitch dark, which is an odd time to be entering that type of environment. I really believe she planned on staying at a hotel that Monday night, drinking some more, possibly writing up some sort of note for family and by dawn, she would've off to complete whatever it was she was out there doing.

I don't necessarily agree with the answers I provided, I was just giving hypothetical answers. (unless the answers were based on fact.) but for debate, let me grab my famous notebook.

1) I am looking for the post now, and will link it when I find it. I believe that when the family received her belongings from inside the car, they said she had "about a week's worth" of clothing, but I could be mistaken about it. I didn't note the location of the post for that, and I am smacking myself. I have a record for every other note, naturally.

2) As a side note, I don't believe in the tandem theory, in that she had someone following her that picked her up at some point. She maybe was meeting someone, or someone knew where she was going, but I don't think anyone was following along. As far as grabbing her bag, I think it is plausible that, in an already anxious state, possibly intoxicated, adrenaline high from the accident, now wanting desperately to get away before the bus driver comes back or the police get there, needing to get rid of the alcohol, maybe having a head injury, she plain and simply freaked the hell out. grabbed her backpack and the alcohol ("omg get rid of it get rid of it hurry hurry" blaring over and over in her head) and booked it. I don't think she consciously left anything behind...I don't think she was thinking, period. I think she was drunk and frantic. I think she locked the door out of rote memory and ran.

3) I agree with you completely. I don't actually think she met anyone, this is just one of the questions I was answering with a hypothetical possibility. I lean more towards believing that she, in her panic to get away, ran straight into the woods, perhaps to "circle around" the area, so she wouldn't be seen on the highway by the police as they arrived. I think she was perhaps overconfident in her athletic abilities and not thinking clearly, and thought that she would be able to make it to a safe place without any trouble in a short amount of time. I think that she continued drinking, because a lot of the time, alcohol likes to encourage bad choices, and hell, two car accidents, some incident we don't know about that has already upset her tremendously (but I have small suspicions was a pregnancy), perhaps injured, why not drink some more? I think at some point she stopped trying to circle around, got disoriented, perhaps wandered further into the woods, and eventually gave up trying to get out.

4) Especially if she was worried about the credit card case, and the other accident, AND if she had been drinking in the car, if they had found her at the car with open bottles of alcohol while intoxicated, she would have been arrested. That might have been an unacceptable scenario to her.

5) When confronted with conflicting accounts, I tend to lean towards the ones that come from her friends rather than from Fred. This may earn me a slapping, but without elaborating, he makes me uncomfortable. I believe that he has more of a reason to view things in a certain way than do her friends, if that makes sense...I'd like to get my point across without disparaging the man. According to her friends, she loved the book because she and her father had climbed either most or all of the mountains in the book, and she loved the stories of adversity and conquering the same. Any time she was going on a trip where there may be downtime, she took it with her.

6) I agree, but it also works with people who are planning on making a clean break and never coming back. If she thought that they would think she was missing or dead, she could have wanted it to be as easy as possible on them.

7) This is true, and I agree that she was a planner. but I think that accident kind of tipped the cow, so to speak. kind of like when you're out drinking with friends....you're fine, you're fine, you're fine...your pants are on your head. you know? I think she was upset, planning, had the first accident, still okay, left on her trip, drinking, still stressed, second accident, and all of the pieces of that I think just pushed her over into almost hysteria, planning out the door.

8) I agree with you...the time she left was extremely strange. the only thing I could think of was that she thought someone would think it was strange if she left earlier, or something delayed her in leaving. (maybe a class?)

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

Fred has stated publically that he believes his daughter is dead.

So, whether or not you are skeptical about a suicide theory, the same question you are posing would be the same question for Fred, even if he didn't believe his daughter took her own life.

Why bother looking, if you already believe she is dead?

But to answer your question,
IMO, it's because they haven't found her.

And they aren't going to find her the way things are looking.

Police are not actively looking for Maura.

Yes, they would take a tip if it was turned into them and they would follow any new lead that is brought in front of them, but the fact of the matter is, Maura's case has never amounted to anything more than someone (an Adult) that went missing with no signs of a crime taking place.

I think Fred wants the FBI involved to get a more pro-active search going for his daughter IMO. And by that, I am referring to remains.

I agree completely. He wants an answer, period, but I believe that he has considered her deceased from the beginning, based on his statements and his patterns of search. The only way to get LE to keep looking, though, is to maintain she is missing and endangered.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

Scoops - I finally found the post about her clothes. Post number 323 on page 13 of NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #4.

"These items were packed in a separate bag - there were two other bags: the one with her clothing for just a few days, personal items, favorite stuffed monkey from the boyfriend and jewelry; and the one with her 2 changes of running clothes."

This reads to me that with what she was wearing, the clothes in one bag, and the running clothes in the other, she had clothing enough for 5 days without needing to wash or recycle anything. What do you think about it?

I would add that the poster of the quote above, user Peabody, is a person who was very involved in the case as an acquaintance of friends and family of Maura, and seemed to provide "inside" knowledge.

 

[Lolacat]

Walkingdeadgirl- about point 8. I think there is a very simple explanation for this- Maura had a pattern in the days before she disappeared of staying up very late (like, 4-5am) and I suspect, getting up late as a consequence. If I recall correctly, the police said that internet searches on her computer went on quite late sunday evening and then started up again around 1pm on the Monday she disappeared- probably soon after she got out of bed. Also, Maura seems to be very active at night- making calls, working, ordering pizza etc and at times that most people would be asleep (eg. 4am etc). I think the reason she left in the late afternoon was simply because she is a night person who is used to being more active at night.

 

[Coffeelover]

People, she is nearing the entrance of the white mountains and she has a book about the white mountains. I find that too much of a coincidence and something (that if I didn't want to believe she was there to do personal harm to herself) I would try and come up with a story as to why she had the book to help explain it away.

I don't know if I find it strange. I brought Over the Edge: Death in Grand Canyon with me when I went there. So if I happened to get lost or abducted when I was there, everyone would have thought that I jumped the edge. But yeah, he could have given a better expanation. In my case, everyone knows I like creepy stories.

 

[Nordicpete]

Has Fred implied that there was something sinister about this?

There have been hints in that direction, but nothing substantiated in any way whatsoever.
There are unconfirmed rumours that the off-duty NH state trooper in question was supposedly "off-line" for an hour or two in connection with Maura´s disappearance. It must also be remembered that he was actually off-duty at the time.
However, I have seen the story about the allegedly "incommunicado" trooper being debunked by some sources.
Apparently, Fred Murray still seems to think otherwise.
Who could say what is the truth without access to the internal NH State Police logs?

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

Walkingdeadgirl- about point 8. I think there is a very simple explanation for this- Maura had a pattern in the days before she disappeared of staying up very late (like, 4-5am) and I suspect, getting up late as a consequence. If I recall correctly, the police said that internet searches on her computer went on quite late sunday evening and then started up again around 1pm on the Monday she disappeared- probably soon after she got out of bed. Also, Maura seems to be very active at night- making calls, working, ordering pizza etc and at times that most people would be asleep (eg. 4am etc). I think the reason she left in the late afternoon was simply because she is a night person who is used to being more active at night.

There we go - number 8 answered. I had forgotten she was a bit of a night owl. That makes perfect sense, thanks.

 

[scoops]

Scoops - I finally found the post about her clothes. Post number 323 on page 13 of NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #4.

"These items were packed in a separate bag - there were two other bags: the one with her clothing for just a few days, personal items, favorite stuffed monkey from the boyfriend and jewelry; and the one with her 2 changes of running clothes."

This reads to me that with what she was wearing, the clothes in one bag, and the running clothes in the other, she had clothing enough for 5 days without needing to wash or recycle anything. What do you think about it?

I would add that the poster of the quote above, user Peabody, is a person who was very involved in the case as an acquaintance of friends and family of Maura, and seemed to provide "inside" knowledge.

I don't know what to make about this.

I respect Peabody as a "family spokesperson" that definitely has brought insight into this case.

On the other hand, she has also contradicted some of the things that have been reported such as the reasons that Maura left west point, which she eludes to being very innocent and having nothing to do with any violations or trouble.

I do question her comments about what was found in Maura's car, especially the textbooks comment.

A display photo was done by a photographer of Maura's left behind stuff and in that display photo you can see quite a few things.

First the bag, Maura had with her (that was left behind in her car) was a rather small bag and inside that bag was two reference books and a notebook (hardly counts as school textbooks).

There is a pair of running shoes and there is a black sweater looking item with a gray pair of what look like baggy sweatpants and then some sort of small light colored blanket.

Keep in mind, a display photo (typically doesn't just call for a couple of items to be pulled from a bag and photographed. Usually, a display photo (like what police would do from a big drug seizure) will have all the contents from the bag neatly laid out on a table or on a floor much like this photo I am referring to was showing Maura's sister clutching one of Maura's running shoes.

There is a second larger bag with a 2 liter soda bottle sticking out off to one side in the picture. But I honestly believe (and I could be wrong) that this bag is in fact NOT MAURA's but the sister who is shown in the picture.

I do know this particular photo was shot in a hotel room that the sister was staying in and I think the bag in the background is hers.


If anyone hasn't seen the photo I am talking about, here it is:

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/p/cast-of-characters.html

just scroll down to the photo of the gal (Maura's sister) clutching one of Maura's running shoes.


I would about swear to it. But go back to that chronicle piece and they show a photo of Maura and her father hiking and posing at the top of a summit. And I think you can see the very exact same outfit (Maura is wearing in that photo) as what is seen on display in front of her sister on the floor of that hotel room.

 

[Lolacat]

There have been hints in that direction, but nothing substantiated in any way whatsoever.
There are unconfirmed rumours that the off-duty NH state trooper in question was supposedly "off-line" for an hour or two in connection with Maura´s disappearance. It must also be remembered that he was actually off-duty at the time.
However, I have seen the story about the allegedly "incommunicado" trooper being debunked by some sources.
Apparently, Fred Murray still seems to think otherwise.
Who could say what is the truth without access to the internal NH State Police logs?

Wow. I hadn't heard any of this. Thanks

 

[Nordicpete]

Wow. I hadn't heard any of this. Thanks

Lolacat,

My personal opinion is that the off-duty NH state trooper in question was just being kind while helping to search for Maura immediately after her crash and subsequent vanishing, this despite being off-duty.

These unsubstantiated rumours have been circulating
on the web on various MM forums for a long time, without anyone being the wiser for that. Quite obviously Fred Murray is being suspicious of the whereabouts of the state trooper, but whether he has any kind of information beyond what is publicly available on the web, who knows?

The state trooper´s name has been bandied about on various public MM forums since the early days of Maura´s case, but I don´t want to post it publicly here, since I personally do not think that he was doing anything wrong whatsoever.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

I don't know what to make about this.

I respect Peabody as a "family spokesperson" that definitely has brought insight into this case.

On the other hand, she has also contradicted some of the things that have been reported such as the reasons that Maura left west point, which she eludes to being very innocent and having nothing to do with any violations or trouble.

I do question her comments about what was found in Maura's car, especially the textbooks comment.

A display photo was done by a photographer of Maura's left behind stuff and in that display photo you can see quite a few things.

First the bag, Maura had with her (that was left behind in her car) was a rather small bag and inside that bag was two reference books and a notebook (hardly counts as school textbooks).

There is a pair of running shoes and there is a black sweater looking item with a gray pair of what look like baggy sweatpants and then some sort of small light colored blanket.

Keep in mind, a display photo (typically doesn't just call for a couple of items to be pulled from a bag and photographed. Usually, a display photo (like what police would do from a big drug seizure) will have all the contents from the bag neatly laid out on a table or on a floor much like this photo I am referring to was showing Maura's sister clutching one of Maura's running shoes.

There is a second larger bag with a 2 liter soda bottle sticking out off to one side in the picture. But I honestly believe (and I could be wrong) that this bag is in fact NOT MAURA's but the sister who is shown in the picture.

I do know this particular photo was shot in a hotel room that the sister was staying in and I think the bag in the background is hers.


If anyone hasn't seen the photo I am talking about, here it is:

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/p/cast-of-characters.html

just scroll down to the photo of the gal (Maura's sister) clutching one of Maura's running shoes.


I would about swear to it. But go back to that chronicle piece and they show a photo of Maura and her father hiking and posing at the top of a summit. And I think you can see the very exact same outfit (Maura is wearing in that photo) as what is seen on display in front of her sister on the floor of that hotel room.

That looks like a posed photo. Is it possible they either didn't use everything from the car for the shot, or used representational items?

 

[scoops]

That looks like a posed photo. Is it possible they either didn't use everything from the car for the shot, or used representational items?

I believe it to be a display photo but I could be wrong.

That bag (which was definitely maura's) doesn't look like it could also hold a full week's worth of clothing as well as the rest of maura's textbooks as well as the rest of everything that looks like it was taken from the bag and placed on display for the photo.

 

[BillNH]

Well someone might want to relay that to Fred then.

He has been adamant over the years that police let him know what the off-duty officer was up to that night.

I agree and I was very surprised to see Helena come to the defense of that trooper. Just another reason I believe it is just a performance by Fred to put NH under the microscope to draw in the FBI. Helena doesn't say much and when she does it is usually something she is sure about.

 

[BillNH]

Has Fred implied that there was something sinister about this?

Fred has been talking about this trooper for a long time. Again IMO, he is casting a net of suspicion on NHSP since they are handling the case and they feel they do not need FBI help. Fred knows they will not disclose information on the trooper's activities so he is safe bringing it up over and over. It sounds very sinister without actually saying the trooper was doing something nefarious. It makes a nice sound bite from the grieving father and the more gullible of sheep eat it up like fresh cut grass.

 

[poppygirl]

So...I'd convinced myself that Maura died of exposure, the I hear about this missing person case...Brandon Lawson disappeared (Texas)...like Maura, no one knew where he was headed, but he ran out of gas on a desolate stretch of road, called his brother...10-15mins later, he calls 911, says he's in the middle of a field and sounds distressed. It sounds like he came upon some people (or vice versa) and something happened to him. It makes me think that maybe the odds that something happened to Maura in the minutes after the bus driver saw her are not so crazy afterall, especially if she was hiding in the woods or running down the street. Brandon's 911 call was released recently...it's chilling and makes me wonder if Maura didn't encounter a similar situation.

Brandon's websleuth's thread:

TX TX - Brandon Lawson, 26, San Angelo, 8 Aug 2013 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

I believe it to be a display photo but I could be wrong.

That bag (which was definitely maura's) doesn't look like it could also hold a full week's worth of clothing as well as the rest of maura's textbooks as well as the rest of everything that looks like it was taken from the bag and placed on display for the photo.

according to Peabody, there were two bags (plus the backpack). My feeling on it is that the photo is a posed one, and not necessarily indicative of everything that was in her car, but I will try to find more information regarding this. I agree that one bag doesn't look like it could have held everything.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

Hopefully I'm not stepping on any protocol with this, but I just saw a rerun of this case on Disappeared, and wondered if you guys might take a quick look and tell me what you think. This happened in my area and it is another case that just really sticks in my mind. TIA.

FL FL - Brandy Hall: Firefighter, 32, Palm Bay, 17 Aug 2006 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Tssiemer]

I saw that on disappeared too. Her body is probably near where her truck was found or she was abducted.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

I saw that on disappeared too. Her body is probably near where her truck was found or she was abducted.

the area her truck was found was searched extensively more than once, with people on foot and cadaver dogs.