NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #11

[Tssiemer]

BR gets a pass because he was serving his country in Oklahoma.


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[Fireweed]

Obviously the academic issues would have stemmed from the previous semester. Calm down.

I have three degrees and studied at four different universities. I have never not had my grades or known of a grade issue before the next semester began. Never.

I never got a single phone call about a grade or a grade issue either. Never. Not once. I got either an email or a letter (I am the same age as Maura). In fact I never got a phone call from any university official unless I was the one who instigated the communication.

I am fine not being "calm" about this stuff. Theories will get way off track if someone does not forcefully point out how that theory makes no sense in the real world.

 

[Fireweed]

Exactly. At the very least, it's yet another examples of how all the people closest to Maura — their beloved daughter, sister, friend, girlfriend, etc. — seem unwilling to reveal anything of substance that they might know about Maura's actual circumstances or state of mind. Doesn't add up.

I am convinced that they all know something 1) "big" and 2) material to why Maura is missing. As of why they cannot be a little more pragmatic after ten years is baffling to me, but obviously they have their reasons.

 

[bragi]

She also talked (while never reported in media reports) to her boyfriend that night from 12:07 a.m. to 12:14 a.m.

Obviously, if any phone call would seem more relevant to upsetting Maura it would be the one much closer to 1 a.m. (which was with her boyfriend).

I had completely forgot about this. I believe the phone logs shown in the Disappeared episode show it. Has anyone ever said what this call was about? It seems very important.

 

[bragi]

I have three degrees and studied at four different universities. I have never not had my grades or known of a grade issue before the next semester began. Never.

I never got a single phone call about a grade or a grade issue either. Never. Not once. I got either an email or a letter (I am the same age as Maura). In fact I never got a phone call from any university official unless I was the one who instigated the communication.

I am fine not being "calm" about this stuff. Theories will get way off track if someone does not forcefully point out how that theory makes no sense in the real world.

I don't think this was happening to Maura but I also think it's possible. First, I believe school just started at the beginning of February, so any administrative actions may have not been able to occur until then -- especially if an instructor was late with grades (or a notice that a student had cheated or plagiarized). Second, I'm sure anyone who's had to visit a registrar's office knows how jumbled and borderline incompetent university staff can sometimes be. That could also contribute to lateness (eg if an email was in a spam folder or a voice mail was accidentally deleted).

 

[bragi]

I am convinced that they all know something 1) "big" and 2) material to why Maura is missing. As of why they cannot be a little more pragmatic after ten years is baffling to me, but obviously they have their reasons.

Knowing she was pregnant and not reporting that to police may give them enough pause to not reveal it until forced to. Remember that MM's computer had search history that included queries about how alcohol can affect a fetus. There was also a rumor that a rape occurred at that dorm party but I've only ever heard that once.

 

[kytty]

I have three degrees and studied at four different universities. I have never not had my grades or known of a grade issue before the next semester began. Never.

I never got a single phone call about a grade or a grade issue either. Never. Not once. I got either an email or a letter (I am the same age as Maura). In fact I never got a phone call from any university official unless I was the one who instigated the communication.

I am fine not being "calm" about this stuff. Theories will get way off track if someone does not forcefully point out how that theory makes no sense in the real world.

Your personal experience does not translate into absolute fact concerning Maura's disappearance. I've had several friends who went away for winter break and did not receive important correspondence from their colleges because it was sent to their permanent address as opposed to their current address.

All of us are brainstorming and speculating about what may have happened. could very well be that the phone call did not concern academics. However, Maura seems to have been a people pleaser especially where her father is concerned. Bad news concerning her academic situation coupled with the accident involving her father's car seems serious enough to have possibly been the catalyst for Maura leaving school.

 

[kytty]

I have three degrees and studied at four different universities. I have never not had my grades or known of a grade issue before the next semester began. Never.

I never got a single phone call about a grade or a grade issue either. Never. Not once. I got either an email or a letter (I am the same age as Maura). In fact I never got a phone call from any university official unless I was the one who instigated the communication.

I am fine not being "calm" about this stuff. Theories will get way off track if someone does not forcefully point out how that theory makes no sense in the real world.

Your personal experience does not translate into absolute fact concerning Maura's disappearance. I've had several friends who went away for winter break and did not receive important correspondence from their colleges because it was sent to their permanent address as opposed to their current address.

All of us are brainstorming and speculating about what may have happened. could very well be that the phone call did not concern academics. However, Maura seems to have been a people pleaser especially where her father is concerned. Bad news concerning her academic situation coupled with the accident involving her father's car seems serious enough to have possibly been the catalyst for Maura leaving school.

 

[Tssiemer]

What if BR found out about her (allegedly) sleeping with her track coach? That could have been the call, then she packed up her stuff and left that email on top of the box and took off.


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[Lolacat]

Your personal experience does not translate into absolute fact concerning Maura's disappearance. I've had several friends who went away for winter break and did not receive important correspondence from their colleges because it was sent to their permanent address as opposed to their current address.

All of us are brainstorming and speculating about what may have happened. could very well be that the phone call did not concern academics. However, Maura seems to have been a people pleaser especially where her father is concerned. Bad news concerning her academic situation coupled with the accident involving her father's car seems serious enough to have possibly been the catalyst for Maura leaving school.

Whilst I think it is technically possible she might have been in trouble with school, the fact is, the phone call that caused her to become upset was close to midnight. University admin would not be calling students at midnight.They operate between office hours of 9ish- 5ish. If she was in trouble with college then I would have thought it would be more likely she would have been upset at the start of her shift, which was what?- 6-8pm ish? The facts are: we know Maura was a night owl, and we know she made many personal calls very late at night and well into the early hours- her sister, Billy, her dad etc.. If she became upset at around midnight on her shift, my gut feeling is, it was something much more personal than school. JMO anyway. (Also, if she was being kicked out of school, then she wouldnt need to lie to her professors about there being a death in the family).

 

[bragi]

What if BR found out about her (allegedly) sleeping with her track coach? That could have been the call, then she packed up her stuff and left that email on top of the box and took off.

If that's the case, then maybe the "my sister..." was because it was Kathleen that told him.

 

[Vox_Veritas_JT]

The area she was in is fairly low traffic. I think the chances that she was kidnapped in the 10-15 mins before the police came by a 'local dirtbag' is slim to none.

This is a fallacy born of being myopic and motivated by unreasonable optimism. Not only does it neglect a credible rather detailed witness report of a red pick up truck (the timing of which fits her accident exactly) but it also glosses over Maura Murray's motivations at this specific point in time.

Maura was highly likely drinking red wine from a small plastic coca-cola bottle at the time she had her accident. This car accident is her second (or possibly third if you link her to the Varsi situation) within just a couple of days. Maura asked Butch Atwood not to call the police when he responded but she probably realized they were already on the way due to the inhabited properties opposite her. It seems clear and logical to me that the most important thing for Maura at this point in time is to avoid the Police at all costs. Where she is there are really only two ways that Maura can avoid LE. Maura can run into the woods, thereby leaving tracks in the snow which in turn leaves a chance of her being located. Alternatively Maura can flag down a passing motorist, this has to be the most effective way of leaving the scene at speed.

Consequently I believe that instead of being snatched by Fred's titular 'dirtbag' Maura might well have flagged him down in her desperation to leave the immediate area. If Maura happened on another good Samaritan like Atwood then we would have a lead, as we do not I can only assume the driver had bad intentions. If we believe the witness about the red pick up then it would be passing Maura just as she would be wanting a ride out of the area. Maura might never usually get into a strangers car but it looks like she has already been drinking behind the wheel and might be partially intoxicated. If Maura feels depressed or suicidal this also heightens risk taking activity.

Now if Maura did hitch out of that area in the first vehicle that picked her up (and I did read that Atwood saw more than a few cars go past while waiting for the police) then she initially went willingly and unfortunately might be anywhere. Perhaps a reason people are keen to discount this theory?

I wonder sometimes if we tend to get lost down the rabbit hole in trying to work out exactly what Maura was thinking during odd incidents in the days before her vanishing. Understanding, say, Maura's motivations after she gets the call that terribly upsets her at work would be hard enough if we knew exactly what was said in the call. Not knowing what was said in the call makes the challenge practically impossible. Add to this that people are often illogical and act in ways that even they do not understand. At any rate, keep up the search and surely discussion can only be a good thing as it keeps attention on Maura who, I am sure, remains in all our thoughts.

 

[Tssiemer]

I thought you were John Green for a second lol.


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[alexzamora]

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/vicap/missing-persons/tara-faye-grinstead/view

 

[Fireweed]

Seriously people, universities do not call you about an issue like your grades; they always send you a letter of some sort. This is done partially to protect their own butts. I have actually had a grade issue before and university dealt with the whole thing in writing. No university would deal with a grade issue over the phone at midnight. That is ridiculous.

Also, keep in mind this all went down in 2004. People were much more protective of their cell phone numbers back then. You likely would not have given a cell number to a university (though it is possible).

Speaking of that, we know about Maura's cell phone records, but did she have a land line in her dorm room as well? In 2004, I still had a land line. All my friends did too. Talking endlessly on a cell phone was not something people always did back then. We used prepaid calling cards and talked via the land line.

 

[bragi]

Seriously people, universities do not call you about an issue like your grades; they always send you a letter of some sort. This is done partially to protect their own butts. I have actually had a grade issue before and university dealt with the whole thing in writing. No university would deal with a grade issue over the phone at midnight. That is ridiculous.

Has anyone actually said that the university called her? I doubt anyone thinks that. We have the phone records, after all. The way I pictured it, the school sent a letter to MM's parents' house, and they read it and called her and told her about it. It also wouldn't even have to do with grades.

Again, I don't think this happened -- I just don't think the cavalier attitude and shouting people down is getting us anywhere. Passion is good but not when it's directed at each other.

 

[Fireweed]

Has anyone actually said that the university called her? I doubt anyone thinks that. We have the phone records, after all. The way I pictured it, the school sent a letter to MM's parents' house, and they read it and called her and told her about it. It also wouldn't even have to do with grades.

Again, I don't think this happened -- I just don't think the cavalier attitude and shouting people down is getting us anywhere. Passion is good but not when it's directed at each other.

Do you think they sent a letter to her parents?

Look, I am passionate about some of this stuff because I spent 8 years at various universities and so I actually "know the drill" so to speak. If you flunk out one semester, then that's it, you are not in clinicals or living at the dorm the next semester. I have not seen a single witness account that Maura was not attending classes (before that Monday). By all accounts, based upon Maura enrolling in classes and living in the dorm, Maura was a student in good standing with the university. I have never not gotten my grades before the next semester began. I concede it is possible not to, but let's say that happened to Maura and she failed a class. Failing ONE class does not get you kicked out of the university. It happens all the time.

 

[bragi]

I wonder sometimes if we tend to get lost down the rabbit hole in trying to work out exactly what Maura was thinking during odd incidents in the days before her vanishing. Understanding, say, Maura's motivations after she gets the call that terribly upsets her at work would be hard enough if we knew exactly what was said in the call. Not knowing what was said in the call makes the challenge practically impossible. Add to this that people are often illogical and act in ways that even they do not understand..

I was thinking tonight, and it seems to me now that most of our discussion isn't going to help us find out what happened to her -- unless you believe she's still alive or that her killer knew her.

I think it's possible she's still alive, but I doubt she is. I also believe if she were alive, the NH police would probably not find that out: I don't believe they have any tools to track people based on SSN activity. Additionally, police are frequently inept or impotent when it comes to missing person cases. Recall the case of Michele Whitaker: She was missing within the United States for years and the only reason we know she's alive is because she chose to tell law enforcement.

If you believe Maura is dead and you believe that her story will lead to her killer, then you have to believe it's either someone we already know about or someone whose identity has been obscured somehow (e.g. a secret lover, which I do not find plausible. Additionally, I think MM was an alcoholic and the alcohol she bought was simply to last her the duration of her "getaway." It may not even have been enough: hardcore alcoholics can put away a lot in a day. Note that this family likely has at least one other member with addiction issues -- Kathleen).

If you believe Maura is dead and her story will not lead to her killer, then her story doesn't matter and you should instead trust law enforcement to figure it out, or investigate this case from a completely different perspective -- you have to either center your thinking in Haverhill or you have to find another perspective that will serve the investigation better (e.g. from the perspective of the time of day, the activity of known local felons, the perspective of nature, the perspective of local news and rumor before and after the event, etc.).

 

[bragi]

Do you think they sent a letter to her parents?

Look, I am passionate about some of this stuff because I spent 8 years at various universities and so I actually "know the drill" so to speak. If you flunk out one semester, then that's it, you are not in clinicals or living at the dorm the next semester. I have not seen a single witness account that Maura was not attending classes (before that Monday). By all accounts, based upon Maura enrolling in classes and living in the dorm, Maura was a student in good standing with the university. I have never not gotten my grades before the next semester began. I concede it is possible not to, but let's say that happened to Maura and she failed a class. Failing ONE class does not get you kicked out of the university. It happens all the time.

I have said at least twice that I don't think any of this happened.

I think you're more hung up on grades than others are. Maura has had behavioral problems that had effects on her life. Maybe the university decided she had to be kicked out because of the credit card fraud -- or public intoxication, or another of a possible constellation of issues in MM's life that we don't even know about.

I do believe you went to a university, but that doesn't mean you know everything that happens in every program at every university, and every interaction of personalities that can happen. If I worked at McDonald's I wouldn't assume I knew how to make sushi.

 

[ontheclock]

.

Maura was highly likely drinking red wine from a small plastic coca-cola bottle at the time she had her accident. This car accident is her second (or possibly third if you link her to the Varsi situation) within just a couple of days. Maura asked Butch Atwood not to call the police when he responded but she probably realized they were already on the way due to the inhabited properties opposite her. It seems clear and logical to me that the most important thing for Maura at this point in time is to avoid the Police at all costs. Where she is there are really only two ways that Maura can avoid LE. Maura can run into the woods, thereby leaving tracks in the snow which in turn leaves a chance of her being located. Alternatively Maura can flag down a passing motorist, this has to be the most effective way of leaving the scene at speed.

I agree - two ways out and a need to avoid the police. If I were in the same situation, I would panic and run. And stash the alcohol.