NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #11

[bragi]

scoops,

Regarding the family possibly wanting the article buried, after I read the article it seemed to me that the intimation that MM's departure from West Point was anything but "clean" would be something this family would want to hide. They really seem to want to hide things they think are "disgraceful."

 

[bragi]

My mind just keeps rotating back to the amount of alcohol (and the bottles she vanished with) and the rag in the exhaust for what its worth, which is admittedly very little.

can anyone clarify exactly what bottles she took with her please? I'm sure there was a large bottle of Vodka but was there a bottle of Kahlua as well?

Thanks.

From memory, I believe she had Kahlua, Bailey's, and vodka. Maybe there was something else but I don't believe so.

I think she had a backpack when she left but I believe she left at least one book behind. Does anyone know which schoolbooks she had with when she abandoned the car?

 

[kytty]

I believe that the phone call she got that made her 'catatonic' was about academics and that she was probably in imminent danger of being kicked out of school. I think that's why she packed all of her things in boxes and left to go somewhere that most likely was a source of comfort to lick her wounds. I don't think she was involved in the hit and run.

When she left school, I don't think she had a concrete plan. She was probably drinking and driving when she crashed which is why she didn't want LE called. She might have sensed that the person who stopped to check on her was likely to call the police and that probably terrified her because of her recent car accident and because she had been drinking. I think she ran into the woods due to the fear of being caught by the police in an inebriated state and succumbed to the elements.

My family and I have visited that area of VT every summer since I was a baby and have camped out, hiked etc. When it gets dark, it's pitch black, can't see your hand in front of your face, unrelieved darkness. It is very easy to get disoriented especially for someone who may have been drinking and panicking. The terrain can be rough too and I think
its possible that she fell into a ravine or something like that which is preventing her being found.

The area she was in is fairly low traffic. I think the chances that she was kidnapped in the 10-15 mins before the police came by a 'local dirtbag' is slim to none.

I agree that the father knows more than he is telling and is racked with guilt because he may have overreacted and said hurtful things to her the last time they were together.
Maura appeared to be a people pleaser especially where get father was concerned and probably was devastated that he was mad at her.

 

[Tssiemer]

I believe that the phone call she got that made her 'catatonic' was about academics and that she was probably in imminent danger of being kicked out of school.
Sbm

An academic phone all after midnight though?

Was the call on her cell phone or phone where she worked? I can't believe no body knows who made this call.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fireweed]

I still maintain that there was no call. Maura was faking a meltdown conveniently timed for when her supervisor was making her rounds. It was a set up for the Monday email about the "family emergency."

 

[Fireweed]

I believe that the phone call she got that made her 'catatonic' was about academics and that she was probably in imminent danger of being kicked out of school. I think that's why she packed all of her things in boxes and left to go somewhere that most likely was a source of comfort to lick her wounds. I don't think she was involved in the hit and run.

Seriously? How is that even possible? Did your university kick people out two weeks into the semester because of bad grades? You have not even gotten one grade on one assignment at that point, and even if you did, you would have until the end of the semester before your final grade is calculated.

 

[scoops]

scoops,

Regarding the family possibly wanting the article buried, after I read the article it seemed to me that the intimation that MM's departure from West Point was anything but "clean" would be something this family would want to hide. They really seem to want to hide things they think are "disgraceful."

Very good point.

If this is indeed the article that set-off family, it could very well be the quote about maura and west point. There is definitely night and day different versions out there as to why maura left west point.

 

[Jerri Blank]

Seriously? How is that even possible? Did your university kick people out two weeks into the semester because of bad grades? You have not even gotten one grade on one assignment at that point, and even if you did, you would have until the end of the semester before your final grade is calculated.

while i dont think that was what the call was about and i highly doubt she was told she was getting kicked out of school, it is possible to know that early in the semester that you were getting kicked out of a specific program. when you register for spring semester you do not have grades from the fall in yet (the semester is still in progress). some programs have GPA or credit requirements. it is possible to register for advanced courses that have specific pre-reqs without having completed those pre-reqs just yet (ie a B or better in another course). i have no clue how her program worked though, so this is just my :twocents:.

 

[KenShabby]

Article done one month after Maura went missing by The Patriot Ledger in Quincy Mass.

Scoops — thanks very much for reposting the Patriot Ledger story. Although this is, technically, very old news, it is also revealing and refreshing.

The thing that strikes me most of all, that I can't get past, is how oddly "composed" (in both senses of the word) Billy's statements in the article sound — considering that the woman he is supposedly planning to marry has been missing for only a matter of weeks. I mean, consider one of them . . .

“She was a top student, in great shape and, of course, extremely beautiful,'' Rausch said. [end quote].

Really? Is that the kind of thought that came to BR under what might typically be dire emotional circumstances? Sounds like the words of a person who has already moved on, and has placed everything into neat perspective.

 

[kytty]

Seriously? How is that even possible? Did your university kick people out two weeks into the semester because of bad grades? You have not even gotten one grade on one assignment at that point, and even if you did, you would have until the end of the semester before your final grade is calculated.

Obviously the academic issues would have stemmed from the previous semester. Calm down.

 

[bragi]

Regarding the phone call, I believe Kathleen claimed responsibility for that. Also, MM's phone records show, if memory serves, a phone call with that sister that's 26-30 minutes long or something (per Disappeared episode).

 

[bragi]

I'd like to posit something: Just because MM wasn't grabbed by a nefarious agent right at the crash site in a window of 5-10 minutes doesn't mean it didn't happen at all. MM could have walked away and gotten taken at almost any time. Imagine a scenario where MM, tired, drunk and exhausted from the trauma of the car accident, falls asleep at the side of the road. She's then taken and she and the assailant are lost in the wind. Nobody knows anything.

 

[MysteryMaven]

I know people are very focused on Maura Murray's personality, her secrets and mistakes, her family life, and the events leading up to the crash. That's pretty much what we have to go on in discussing this case.
A lot of it is white noise, IMO. I am interested in what happened after the crash. I would like to know all of the RSO's and people with criminal pasts in the area and what they were doing at the time of the crash.
I would like to know all of the people living on the road and what they were doing at the time of the crash too. Maybe one person saw one small thing that they didn't think was significant.
I would also like definitive. 100% proof from Law Enforcement that Israel Keyes was nowhere near the area at the time.
Yes, some of the stuff going on in Maura's life led up to her leaving and crashing the car. But none of that solves the mystery.

The two things prior to the crash I think are important are:

1. Phone Records: are there phone records that show calls between Maura and any person unknown to her family and friends. So far, the answer is no. If there is no evidence, I would assume she was traveling alone and had to figure out what to do after the crash by herself.

2. I would like to see the surveillance video from the ATM to see what she was wearing and if anyone was standing near her. Don't know why LE won't release it.

Until these two things are officially addressed by LE, this case is a piece of swiss cheese with a lot of holes in it. Did she run off with someone? Did she die in the woods?
I think there are just too many missing pieces to decide.

One more thing: In regard to the missing alcohol, sure, she may have taken it with her when she left the car. Or maybe she drank it on the way to Haverhill and discarded the bottles along the way. I don't think there is definite proof she took it with her to share with someone she was traveling with, or to drink herself silly on a mountain top. They could have been thrown out the car window or put into a garbage can somewhere along the route.

Just some thoughts.

 

[bragi]

Seriously? How is that even possible? Did your university kick people out two weeks into the semester because of bad grades? You have not even gotten one grade on one assignment at that point, and even if you did, you would have until the end of the semester before your final grade is calculated.

There is plenty of evidence to support this hypothesis: She had just gotten caught committing credit card fraud; she's an alcoholic; she allegedly had a relationship with university staff; she had already gotten kicked out of one school. Any of these things could be causal.

 

[bragi]

The thing that strikes me most of all, that I can't get past, is how oddly "composed" (in both senses of the word) Billy's statements in the article sound — considering that the woman he is supposedly planning to marry has been missing for only a matter of weeks. I mean, consider one of them . . .

“She was a top student, in great shape and, of course, extremely beautiful,'' Rausch said. [end quote].

Really? Is that the kind of thought that came to BR under what might typically be dire emotional circumstances? Sounds like the words of a person who has already moved on, and has placed everything into neat perspective.

I also found BR's comments strange. I meant to bring this up earlier as I thought it was important.

First of all, even though the comments were within days of the disappearance, everything about MM is in the past tense. Also, when asked to describe Maura, Billy starts off his sentence with "she was a top student." Why in the world would you say that? Either he's on the ASD spectrum or he's got some reason to say it that way.

"[She was] in great shape" is also bizarre, and it's an especially bizarre thing to say about someone you've supposedly known for years. "She's in great shape" is something you say about someone you've never talked to, or have barely talked to.

"[And she was of course] extremely beautiful." First of all, she wasn't really, but it seems important for BR to think that and for us to also think it.

I don't quite know what to think of the things BR said in that article, and the fact that he apparently lied about that "Red Cross call," but he is definitely not on the level. Something is off about him or his involvement.

I feel like BR pretty often gets a pass, and maybe it's because there's not a lot known about him or the things he's said. I feel like FM gets raked over the coals pretty often, and while he's said some bizarre things, they didn't get my hackles up nearly as quickly as BR's statements did.

 

[Lolacat]

Scoops — thanks very much for reposting the Patriot Ledger story. Although this is, technically, very old news, it is also revealing and refreshing.

The thing that strikes me most of all, that I can't get past, is how oddly "composed" (in both senses of the word) Billy's statements in the article sound — considering that the woman he is supposedly planning to marry has been missing for only a matter of weeks. I mean, consider one of them . . .

“She was a top student, in great shape and, of course, extremely beautiful,'' Rausch said. [end quote].

Really? Is that the kind of thought that came to BR under what might typically be dire emotional circumstances? Sounds like the words of a person who has already moved on, and has placed everything into neat perspective.

I thought the same. The comments were oddly emotionally detached- as if he was describing someone in his class with whom he was slightly aquainted, not the woman he was due to spend the rest of his life with. In fact, it put me in mind of the film the stepford wives. To be fair, he might just not be comfortable or that eloquent in expressing himself but still, I found it odd.

 

[bragi]

Some old quotes from Kathleen:

Since married, Kathleen Carpenter remembers finishing a phone call with Maura at about 10:20 the night of Feb. 5, but doesn't recall talking with her sister in the early-morning hours.

Kathleen, who said she had talked about troubles with her husband-to-be during the nighttime conversation with Maura, said her sister didn't seem upset.

But, she added, Maura and Billy were having relationship troubles at the time. Kathleen said she takes sleeping pills at night and didn't remember a later call.

"We'd always talk about boy troubles. She was with Billy Rausch and every time they got into a fight or if had a fight with my (now) husband, I'd call her. It was girl talk, always late at night," Carpenter said.

I find these statements unusual. First, why does Kathleen feel the need to point out that she takes sleeping pills and wouldn't remember any call? Is it to have a defense ready in case people find out she's lying? Is she trying to prevent further questioning on that topic? Note that if she believes it's actually possible they spoke and she didn't remember, she doesn't seem to care to find out whether it really happened and whether the information would be helpful.

Kathleen then says she talks late at night with Maura all the time. Which is it? She takes sleeping pills and never talks at night, or they always talk at night? That's just plain inconsistent. Yellow alert stuff for me.

 

[Lolacat]

Some old quotes from Kathleen:



I find these statements unusual. First, why does Kathleen feel the need to point out that she takes sleeping pills and wouldn't remember any call? Is it to have a defense ready in case people find out she's lying? Is she trying to prevent further questioning on that topic? Note that if she believes it's actually possible they spoke and she didn't remember, she doesn't seem to care to find out whether it really happened and whether the information would be helpful.

Kathleen then says she talks late at night with Maura all the time. Which is it? She takes sleeping pills and never talks at night, or they always talk at night? That's just plain inconsistent. Yellow alert stuff for me.

I wonder if she is referring to Ambien or a similar drug? Ive never taken Ambien myself but I have heard of people doing the most bizarre things on it and not having any recollection of it the next day - its quite scary.

 

[scoops]

Just a couple of random thoughts:

One other item besides her backpack and the bottles of alcohol that Maura is believed to have taken (From the wreck) while on foot is Tylenol PM.

Family spokespeople over the years have worked briskly to try and explain it away.

Police (From how I interpret) has found it as just another clue pointing to Maura wanting to harm herself.

One of the family spokespeoples explanation for her having that was that she had a old knee injury (from track) which forced her to take that every night.


Onto the phone calls:

Maura did talk to her sister Kathleen that Thursday night from 10:10 p.m. to 10:38 p.m.

her meltdown at work was closer to 1 a.m.

She also talked (while never reported in media reports) to her boyfriend that night from 12:07 a.m. to 12:14 a.m.

Obviously, if any phone call would seem more relevant to upsetting Maura it would be the one much closer to 1 a.m. (which was with her boyfriend).

 

[KenShabby]

I feel like BR pretty often gets a pass, and maybe it's because there's not a lot known about him or the things he's said. I feel like FM gets raked over the coals pretty often, and while he's said some bizarre things, they didn't get my hackles up nearly as quickly as BR's statements did.

Exactly. At the very least, it's yet another examples of how all the people closest to Maura — their beloved daughter, sister, friend, girlfriend, etc. — seem unwilling to reveal anything of substance that they might know about Maura's actual circumstances or state of mind. Doesn't add up.