NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #12

[Fireweed]

I was thinking about the "Not Without Peril" connection. After reading the book, it would seem to me that if Maura were on a romanticized quest to die like the people in the book, that she would set off during the day and hiking upwards to one of the highest peaks in the range. Running off from the side of the road in Haverhill would not fit in with the stories in the book at all.

 

[Jane Birch]

TBH as someone who is all too familiar with eating disorders, I would be surprised if she didn't have one. She is incredibly thin (in a gaunt, bony way) in the photos I see with a puffy bulimia face (bulimia often puffs out your cheeks because it irritates the glands). I have seen way too many perfectionistic runners with eating disorders. She was incredibly secretive (most with eating disorders are) and would steal credit cards to buy whole pizzas at night (bulimia). As I mentioned before, there is actually a strong link between eating disorders and stealing... it all has to do with getting a rush out of being in control. The pattern is way too clear to me. Her grades were slipping. Bursts out crying at her job. Kicked out of a school. Flunking out of another. Overbearing father. Losing control. Seems pretty clear to me that she suffered from mental health issues. She looks sad behind the eyes.

Minor correction--Maura was in good academic standing at Amherst: there was no indication that she was "flunking out," as you said.

 

[Fireweed]

Minor correction--Maura was in good academic standing at Amherst: there was no indication that she was "flunking out," as you said.

Maura was neither doing great nor flunking out. Her status of being in "good academic standing" would have stemmed from the previous semester. Maura was only three weeks into the semester when she disappeared. She would not have been issued any grades yet.

Again, Maura being in good academic standing was not a reflection of how she was doing in the spring semester; it only means that she had passing grades in the previous semester. I know that a lot of people who come here did not go to college and so they do not understand how this stuff works, but basically it is impossible for a college to determine your academic standing only three weeks into the semester.

 

[gnomony]

Maura was neither doing great nor flunking out. Her status of being in "good academic standing" would have stemmed from the previous semester. Maura was only three weeks into the semester when she disappeared. She would not have been issued any grades yet.

Again, Maura being in good academic standing was not a reflection of how she was doing in the spring semester; it only means that she had passing grades in the previous semester. I know that a lot of people who come here did not go to college and so they do not understand how this stuff works, but basically it is impossible for a college to determine your academic standing only three weeks into the semester.

(My bold for emphasis): I think the truth is that we have no evidence about her academic status during the current term. So, we cannot support an assertion that she was "flunking out." We also cannot support an assertion that she "was neither doing great nor flunking out." She could have been doing great; she could have been doing nothing (although you can't really be "flunking out" at the beginning of a semester, since you still have two or three months left to redeem yourself.)

 

[Fireweed]

(My bold for emphasis): I think the truth is that we have no evidence about her academic status during the current term. So, we cannot support an assertion that she was "flunking out." We also cannot support an assertion that she "was neither doing great nor flunking out." She could have been doing great; she could have been doing nothing (although you can't really be "flunking out" at the beginning of a semester, since you still have two or three months left to redeem yourself.)

Um, sorry I thought I was being clear. My point with that statement was merely to illustrate how there are no grades or anything three weeks into the semester, so there cannot be any conclusions reached one way or the other as to how Maura was doing. You are simply restating what I said but in a much lengthier explanation.

I was hoping that with that statement, those who never went to college would get the point very succinctly about how all this stuff works. Unlike high school, where if you did not do any work for three weeks, your parents would get a letter and there would be conferences about you possibly flunking, in college a person is an adult on their own. If you do not study or do none of the readings the first three weeks of class, the professor and the school will not make an assessment one way or another.

 

[scoopd83]

Way too many posts and threads to go through to find out if this has been discussed before. Most likely it has. However, does anyone think that distressing phone call she supposedly received a few days before she left was a hoax on her part to set up her story about the family emergency that did not exist?

 

[ZooSleuth]

Way too many posts and threads to go through to find out if this has been discussed before. Most likely it has. However, does anyone think that distressing phone call she supposedly received a few days before she left was a hoax on her part to set up her story about the family emergency that did not exist?

It has been discussed before and I definitely think it's in the realm of possibility.

 

[Fireweed]

Way too many posts and threads to go through to find out if this has been discussed before. Most likely it has. However, does anyone think that distressing phone call she supposedly received a few days before she left was a hoax on her part to set up her story about the family emergency that did not exist?

That has been my own personal belief for quite some time. Despite all the years of trying no one can show who the upsetting phone call was with and what is was about.

 

[BillNH]

Way too many posts and threads to go through to find out if this has been discussed before. Most likely it has. However, does anyone think that distressing phone call she supposedly received a few days before she left was a hoax on her part to set up her story about the family emergency that did not exist?

I have a hard time believing she "staged" anything in regards to her disappearance. Usually when someone stages something, it is to lead whomever is looking towards some conclusion that wraps up events in a neat package, thus misdirecting them from the "real" course of events. There is no neat package here, there is no evident conclusion. There isn't even the beginning of some sort of conclusion, as if she was interrupted during the ruse and couldn't complete it. There just isn't any solid clues to where we were supposed to be led, which makes me believe there was no hoaxing, staging or ruse-ing happening here.

 

[scoopd83]

She most certainly lied about having a family emergency, which gave her an excuse with school and her job(s) to leave for several days at the very least. I'm not of the opinion she planned to leave forever but you can't dispute she deceptively created a situation in which to leave town.

 

[BillNH]

What is the possible necessity of "setting up" a family emergency? The emergency itself is generally self explanatory.

Obviously she created a situation to leave, I just don't believe it was part of an elaborate ruse. I don't think she playacted her distress at work, I don't think the accident(s) were staged.

 

[Fireweed]

What is the possible necessity of "setting up" a family emergency? The emergency itself is generally self explanatory.

Obviously she created a situation to leave, I just don't believe it was part of an elaborate ruse. I don't think she playacted her distress at work, I don't think the accident(s) were staged.

I don't think that the car accidents were staged. I think you're right Bill that the emergency itself would have been fine. I guess the reason that I reached the conclusion that the breakdown at work was "fake" was because in all the many, many years we have been trying to figure it out, no one can find the upsetting phone call, the contents of the conversation, or even who it was with. I think that Maura, as a soft-spoken, private, and reserved person perhaps was concerned that no one would believe her email on its own.

It is not the breakdown at work on its own that makes me think it was fake, it is the breakdown in combination with so many other things about this case that make me think it was fake. Obviously when Maura said, "my sister" that was a lie. There was not anything wrong with either of her sisters. I think that Maura was already very depressed and stressed, and so breaking down and having a good cry was not going to be that hard to do. But here we have a person who ostensibly rarely talked about her problems with people close to her, having a catatonic emotional breakdown in front of some people from work. I'm just not buying it is all.

 

[Fireweed]

She most certainly lied about having a family emergency, which gave her an excuse with school and her job(s) to leave for several days at the very least. I'm not of the opinion she planned to leave forever but you can't dispute she deceptively created a situation in which to leave town.

I go back and forth as to what she was planning. I think that Maura was desperate to get the heck out of there, and that she wanted to leave without anyone looking for her. I wonder if her father coming to visit was part of her plan, or if it was something that derailed her plan to leave that Saturday. Or did she have a "breakdown" at work right after her sister told her that their father had secured $4,000 cash for her?

 

[emeraldine]

Why is there so much bickering in this thread? It won't help the family, won't catch any possible perpetrator(s), and won't make a single difference in whatever happened to Maura.

It might even turn away someone who really could have offered something important, or who was involved in some way and stumbled upon this site.

Okay, now that I've said that, I'll add the actual input I came here to post...

I, personally, believe that, since Maura(allegedly) ran off after the final car wreck, the lack of footprints suggests that she did get into someone else's vehicle and leave the scene that way(she may have initially planned to go someplace on her own, on foot - but, a few too many minutes spent outside in the elements might have changed her perspective on that idea).

There is no proof that she planned to commit suicide - her behavior in the days leading up to her trip suggests sheer, if oddly well-planned, recklessness(in other words, the mindset of, "I like to make sound decisions, but I must get out of here as quickly as possible before I snap!"). Plenty of people have contradictory impulses like that every day, without the slightest desire to off themselves. Stress can get so unbearable that even the most stable people can lose all ability to plan for a more convenient time, or to wait for a more reliable car, or to establish a better financial state(or to rely any longer on others they may feel unhappy with or overly dependent on).

Furthermore, the fact(or, again, the alleged fact) that she initially left the scene on foot after her wreck demonstrates self-preservation(as does taking her "getaway trip" in the first place, really)...who cares if you could be facing a DUI if you don't plan on being around long enough to suffer any of the consequences it would bring to you?

If she wasn't abducted, however, it does seem like suicide IS the only other viable explanation...even if the map shows it to be physically impossible for her to get to a good enough "hiding place" in such weather before succumbing to natural forces like hypothermia(and being quickly found, out in the open).

I'd say it's a 98% likelihood that she had help to leave the scene(whether it was help she wanted or not...hopefully whoever took her was friendly and did no harm).

 

[Wisdom]

Off topic here but I know Israel Keyes has been discussed a little before in Maura's case... but according to the updated FBI timeline I think he can be eliminated now if I'm reading it right? It is very interesting that he was likely on one of his murder expeditions while Maura went missing however. It looks like they show him renting a car in Salt Lake City Utah from Feb 6th-13th 2004 and driving 522 miles which would be far less than needed to make a trip to Haverhill.
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2013/august/new-information-released-in-serial-killer-case/keyes-timeline

 

[Jane Birch]

But here we have a person who ostensibly rarely talked about her problems with people close to her, having a catatonic emotional breakdown in front of some people from work. I'm just not buying it is all.

Though she did, according to her supoervisor, seem pretty reluctant to talk about it, which is also (obviously) what catatonic means. So while it's an extreme emotional reaction, it's not out of character in that sense. Her supervisor tried to get her to open up, didn't she? Maura may well have been one of those people who didn't cry in front of others. So even though she was upset enough to have leave work, just clamming up and refusing to talk wasn't out of hcaracter.

That probably makes no sense. I'm really tired. I hope I'm being clear?

 

[Jane Birch]

Plenty of people have contradictory impulses like that every day, without the slightest desire to off themselves. Stress can get so unbearable that even the most stable people can lose all ability to plan for a more convenient time, or to wait for a more reliable car, or to establish a better financial state(or to rely any longer on others they may feel unhappy with or overly dependent on).

Something I can relate to, both on the larger scale you speak of and also the totally mundane one. I want to lose ten pounds but I also really wanted pizza for dinner. (we all know how that one went....) Self-contradictory is part of being a complex human.

 

[ruined detroit]

Ok reading between the lines..

It sounds as though Maura was an alcoholic and probably had bulimia or something like that along with it. She may well have just wanted to leave college for a bit and have a break but it sounds like on the weekend she disappeared and those leading up to it she was rarely fully sober so was probably at many times slightly addled and unstable. Alkies love a bit of drama and a dramatic phone call is not beyond the realms as when you are desperate it seems like a good idea and it can be an easier way round things than saying you are having a tough time. It sounds like Maura actively planned to head to the mountains as it is a romantic tragic place (alkies love a bit of drama and daring) where she could probably drink, think, and clear her head. The problem was the car accident which I don't reckon Maura bargained on. I think what happened is very sad but i think Maura left the car and ran off but came to grief in the woods probably not far from the accident scene. Whether she tripped, got caught in deep snow, got cold and lay down for a bit I don't know, but I think she was drunk/addled and not making the best decisions. People drink and swim all the time and many drown. This situation is not dissimilar. I hope there is a happier outcome and she is living happily somewhere as someone else but this seems unlikely. Maura sounded like a pretty decent person but a bit stuck and unhappy.

 

[armywife210]

Praying for Maura!


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[Lamima]

Ok reading between the lines..

It sounds as though Maura was an alcoholic and probably had bulimia or something like that along with it. She may well have just wanted to leave college for a bit and have a break but it sounds like on the weekend she disappeared and those leading up to it she was rarely fully sober so was probably at many times slightly addled and unstable. Alkies love a bit of drama and a dramatic phone call is not beyond the realms as when you are desperate it seems like a good idea and it can be an easier way round things than saying you are having a tough time. It sounds like Maura actively planned to head to the mountains as it is a romantic tragic place (alkies love a bit of drama and daring) where she could probably drink, think, and clear her head. The problem was the car accident which I don't reckon Maura bargained on. I think what happened is very sad but i think Maura left the car and ran off but came to grief in the woods probably not far from the accident scene. Whether she tripped, got caught in deep snow, got cold and lay down for a bit I don't know, but I think she was drunk/addled and not making the best decisions. People drink and swim all the time and many drown. This situation is not dissimilar. I hope there is a happier outcome and she is living happily somewhere as someone else but this seems unlikely. Maura sounded like a pretty decent person but a bit stuck and unhappy.

This is pretty much what I would bet on too. I know they searched near where her car was found but searches have missed bodies before, so I think she perished near the car accident scene (by near, it could be anywhere in a 1-2 mile radius).