NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #12

[Reno]

I am a woman that uses Head N Shoulders. I also, at times, may switch back and forth with 'good' shampoo so I might have 2 types in my travel bag. But there were 3 on the list, right? And I noticed a travel toothbrush and also a regular toothbrush, which I find odd. I'd only bring 1. Unless 1 was in the car before, left in there in case she sleeps over somewhere (then maybe 1 of the shampoos as well). And since she brought birth control, I'd say that leads away from being suicidal and possibly also rules out the pregnancy theory. Yeah, I am in the camp of her running away from DUI accident and getting lost in the cold woods and dying there (or accepting a ride from a bad guy).

Why no mention of the alcohol? It says list of items found in car (not trunk).

Hmm, interesting you bring that up, as I believe it is an important dimension to theories about the event. IIRC, the alcohol - with the exception of the boxed wine, which would have been too difficult to transport - was missing. So, to tally it up - Present in the Saturn: Franzia, coke bottle with wine in it. Absent from the Saturn: Kahlua, Bailey's, vodka. The police said she had a black backpack (presumably they saw it in the ATM or Liquor Store footage), which also was not present.

So the theory centers around why she took as much booze as she could, while leaving other necessities like her toothbrushes, given her "conscientiousness with oral hygiene" (per her mother). The birth control is also problematic for similar reasons, because it actually undermines the second occupant theory. The rationale for the BC is that there was someone to use it with - a measured choice at the start of the trip. But if she also had a measured reaction to the accident or someone to help calm her, so as to hitch a ride and continue on, one would think those items would have made it into the pack too. If the circumstances were pure panic fueled by the Corolla accident and BAC, or something else, the booze would go. Maybe it was something as simple as: run down the 112 in the dark to hide the booze, and then she got lost and sat down for a minute.

One of my pet theories: pure speculation...is that she was on a segment of the 112 she didn't know. It actually helps explain why she didn't take the 302 from the 91 and also suggests how disoriented she would have been.

 

[TessDeco]

it's interesting for sure. could say a lot or could say nothing! for example, in my trunk are a lot of car repair/maintenance items like power steering fluid, screwdrivers etc. it's just handier to have them there when fixing something.

Renner's post points out that there is a lot of shampoo on the list, and speculates that the Head and Shoulders indicates a man. i don't think it's unusual and some people (especially women) like to switch between multiple shampoos from time to time, including dandruff ones. maybe for her to have packed so many in the car is strange, now i wonder if she left any personal hygiene products back at the dorm? if not, that would seem like she was not planning to come back.

and the cellophane pouch could be cigarettes or could be from chewing gum. or both!

and btw, is it Spring already? i thought Renner wasn't going to post to the blog until then? :thinking:

Yes Renner was wrong about women not using Heads and Shoulders. Women get dandruff too. I have several different brands of shampoo in the workout bag I keep in my car. They are hotel/travel sized bottles because it's easier to carry than full sized bottles. Too bad there's not a better description of the items listed.

Ha! Fall is the new Spring?

All just MHO!

 

[Reno]

Is it not possible that the goal of putting the rag into the tailpipe was to try to start a car fire? I think there could be a few reasons for trying to do this: destroy evidence of DWI (alcohol spilled all over, alcohol in container, etc.), distract police from something, etc. Is that mechanically possible?

She could have tried it if she didn't know much about cars, but I believe most engines, and certainly modern computerized engines, will shut off rapidly if they can't expel exhaust from engine cylinders (certainly a 90s Saturn). The computerized ones have oxygen sensors, but even the classics have to push out exhaust fumes to bring in more oxygen for combustion. If you think about it, that's a reason why the garage method works more effectively for self-destruction than a rag in tailpipe - exhaust unobstructed, engine keeps going. I speculate it was what her dad said: to limit attention from a smoking tailpipe.

 

[Ricochet]

Is it not possible that the goal of putting the rag into the tailpipe was to try to start a car fire? I think there could be a few reasons for trying to do this: destroy evidence of DWI (alcohol spilled all over, alcohol in container, etc.), distract police from something, etc. Is that mechanically possible?

I'm glad this brought up, because Fred Murray explains this in an interview. According to him her car exhaust was smoking very badly, rather than run the risk of being pulled over by the police, as a temporary fix he suggested that she put a rag in the exhaust to cut down on the smoke it was emitting. So the rag wasn't jammed all the way up in the tailpipe to cause a stall. It would've been closer to the end, and used as a filter; snug enough that it wouldn't fall out but not so snug that exhaust couldn't escape.

On James Renner's blog he posted about Fred withdrawing $4,000.00 cash in a very odd way. Fred doesn't hide this. He explains over the course of 8 ATM transactions he withdrew $4,000.00 and on that Saturday went to Northampton to buy her a car. They were short a few thousand and the plan was to return at a later time.

My hypothetical would be this all occurred in a relatively short period of time. Fred knew she needed a car, probably not aware of just how bad of shape her car was in, withdrew the money in several ATM transactions to get her a car that Saturday. When he realized he'd need more money suggested using the rag as a makeshift filter until he could return later with sufficient money. I don't think she used her car all that much around UMass, and he was unaware she was intending a long trip.

I could actually see someone suggesting something like this if it was only going to be temporarily and the car wasn't driven much.

The full article can be found here http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2014/01/28/maura-murray/

 

[nycpizzaparty]

I don't think my post expressed what I meant to say, which was to bring up the possibility that she put the rag in the tailpipe after the accident, in the hopes that it would ignite in what might be a still very hot part of the car. I heard it was pushed way up there which is what made me think of this car fire possibility. It would have been done after the accident in an attempt to just get the car to go up in flames, not while she was driving or at any time prior. Sorry about that.

She could have tried it if she didn't know much about cars, but I believe most engines, and certainly modern computerized engines, will shut off rapidly if they can't expel exhaust from engine cylinders (certainly a 90s Saturn). The computerized ones have oxygen sensors, but even the classics have to push out exhaust fumes to bring in more oxygen for combustion. If you think about it, that's a reason why the garage method works more effectively for self-destruction than a rag in tailpipe - exhaust unobstructed, engine keeps going. I speculate it was what her dad said: to limit attention from a smoking tailpipe.

 

[gnomony]

<snip> I heard it was pushed way up there <snip>

If the rag were pushed way up the tailpipe, how would LE ever have noticed it? I gather that the car hasn't been run since it was towed away from the accident site.

 

[Fireweed]

If Fred had a daily withdrawal limit of $1000 (common), then perhaps starting earlier in the week he took out cash every day from his bank's ATM because he worked during bank business hours.

Did Maura have access to the account with the money before she went missing? According to Helen Murray, the $4,000 was put into an account Maura had access to after she went missing. She does not say that the money was put in Maura's account, just an account she had "access" to. Was this a joint account she had with Fred? I had such an account with my parents in college.

 

[rachaellouise]

Can someone please explain the Theory that Maura lives in Canada and that Fred helped her? I saw it on a Reddit thread (Reddit weirdly has some really good true crime and missing people subreddits, whod've thunk it?!) and can't remember the ins and outs of it. Could some lovely lady or gentleman help me out by giving me the brief synopsis of this theory and how it came about? Thank you so much


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[Pettibon Junction]

Can someone please explain the Theory that Maura lives in Canada and that Fred helped her? I saw it on a Reddit thread (Reddit weirdly has some really good true crime and missing people subreddits, whod've thunk it?!) and can't remember the ins and outs of it. Could some lovely lady or gentleman help me out by giving me the brief synopsis of this theory and how it came about? Thank you so much


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It originated with an anonymous message board post that James Renner ran with and wound up popularizing. He no longer seems to believe this theory is correct.

 

[Caffeine]

No alcohol, which to me is the most interesting of all.

Minus the box of wine there presumably should have been some alcohol left, despite a "small" trip to the liquor store. Even so, one would think a bottle or two would remain, if she left in a haste.

What to make of that, I don't know. I've always thought she left quickly by car to avoid a DUI. Removing evidence of liquor in the car would be a prudent move, so ultimately I think 1) she simply forgot about the wine or 2) the backpack already had the remaining liquor bottles as well as other essentials and she just instinctively grabbed that and quickly left.

 

[Reno]

I don't think my post expressed what I meant to say, which was to bring up the possibility that she put the rag in the tailpipe after the accident, in the hopes that it would ignite in what might be a still very hot part of the car. I heard it was pushed way up there which is what made me think of this car fire possibility. It would have been done after the accident in an attempt to just get the car to go up in flames, not while she was driving or at any time prior. Sorry about that.

Oh, now I understand what you mean. It's a good question, and it's conceivable she may have tried it if she just didn't know whether it would work. But just from a quick search, I think it's unlikely. Fires need an ignition source, oxygen and fuel. Under your theory, the heat and rag could create the ignition source and there would be ambient oxygen, but I think that's where it ends. At that point, there's no gasses from the pipe to "conduct" the fire (and even if the engine was on - it's not oxygen coming through the tailpipe). Further, there's some myth-busting out there on using gasoline/fuel to burn up a car. Apparently, it doesn't happen the way it happens in the movies. She would have been better off lighting the rag and tossing it in the backseat directly.

 

[Lamima]

I don't see the boxed wine (Franzia) on the list either.

 

[Reno]

If Fred had a daily withdrawal limit of $1000 (common), then perhaps starting earlier in the week he took out cash every day from his bank's ATM because he worked during bank business hours.

Did Maura have access to the account with the money before she went missing? According to Helen Murray, the $4,000 was put into an account Maura had access to after she went missing. She does not say that the money was put in Maura's account, just an account she had "access" to. Was this a joint account she had with Fred? I had such an account with my parents in college.

Yes, it's an interesting angle for the Canada/ flight theories (and I realize you didn't bring them up in your post). But a few things bother me about that - all the following are hypotheticals, none are even alleged, that I know of:

1.) if she took the $4K at any time, either before the trip or in the weeks and months surrounding the disappearance, I think police would have checked, known and built that into their BOLO. That would be a massive clue that would change their entire posture towards her behavior - kind of like "embezzlement from Dad",
2.) even if FM tamped that down or, alternately, actively aided her in a flight scenario, he'd be rapidly facing obstruction of justice charges if he didn't disclose that money was missing or refused to let LE check the account/trace the funds,
3.) MM's behavior before is inconsistent with a ruse like that. For MM, you've got $4K (or expect to have it) and a bad car, why not rent a good vehicle? If the answer is "too expensive to pay the under 25 fee", that throws cold water on the idea that $4,280 is enough to disappear to Canada or elsewhere for the rest of one's life. Then, there are the maps and reservations - again, that could be a ruse too. But the route and the in-car drinking? That seems like a really weird way to pull off the perfect disappearance. If alcohol is your thing, grab a flight and get loaded at the airport bar. After all, this type of thing would be meticulously planned - one would wait for best prices, best timing, etc.
4.) FM's behavior after is inconsistent with a ruse like that. He's walking through the woods looking for her for years, spending hundreds of dollars on motel rooms in NH (which could have been used to support her new life, if he's an accomplice). He's "aggressively pushing" PIs to search houses for cadavers. He sues NH for its case files and investigative reports of her disappearance. In this, I'm reminded of O.J.'s promise to search for the "real killers" and those occasional snarky reports that it involved a lot of golf. Put another way, if FM had a deceptive motive, his interest would have been to throw out some sleight of hand and then make it all go quiet fast.

 

[Caffeine]

I don't see the boxed wine (Franzia) on the list either.

Good point. Makes you wonder if anything else was left off, because that was basically the only alcohol related item left there minus the soda bottle that had an odor of booze.

To me it still stands as a crucial point because whether or not she consciously left the booze is telling in terms of her state of mind.

Leaving the booze behind would seem like a more hurried, frantic choice. Like she understood the severity of her accident and wanted to leave Asap.

However, consciously taking it with her could mean a whole slew of things. People with alcohol issues typically don't want to part with their booze. They want to keep the party going, they may not care about consequences of anything (ie bringing an open container in a car when they know its illegal, but they don't care) and that of course could mean she was very intoxicated and not capable of critical thinking after the crash.

Attempting to understand her state of mind after the crash is another important piece of the puzzle.

 

[gnomony]

I don't see the boxed wine (Franzia) on the list either.

A good guess is that LE gave the family -- and asked the family to return -- only personal effects, not including the booze. I think elsewhere it was reported that they did find booze.

 

[goldiegirl]

I don't necessarily think that Maura's carrying birth control around in the car is an indication of anything. I don't believe it means she meant to use it with somebody. Not to give a birds and the bees lesson, but this is germane to those who don't know (and I don't mean this in a patronizing tone, just to be helpful): women take birth control pills daily for a given time period (different for different types), not just on the days that they plan to have sex. These pills work by adjusting your hormones throughout the month, so you need to take them as scheduled, even if you're not going to have sex for a while.

I guess my point is that BC pills are just kind of a daily item for women who choose to take them, kind of like having your keys, phone, chapstick, wallet, etc. on you. If she was taking a brand that you take daily (which most were back at that time), it makes sense that she'd automatically have it on her, even if she had planned to commit suicide. More than likely she would have had to consciously remove it from her routine if she had realized she really wouldn't need it with those plans, and that would just be outright odd. Also, on a funny note, hers was probably found in her bag, but I've even known girls to store it in their cars so others don't find it. Who knows. By the way, I really don't have a direction I'm leaning in this case, so this is all just devil's advocate/food for thought.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

I don't necessarily think that Maura's carrying birth control around in the car is an indication of anything. I don't believe it means she meant to use it with somebody. Not to give a birds and the bees lesson, but this is germane to those who don't know (and I don't mean this in a patronizing tone, just to be helpful): women take birth control pills daily for a given time period (different for different types), not just on the days that they plan to have sex. These pills work by adjusting your hormones throughout the month, so you need to take them as scheduled, even if you're not going to have sex for a while.

I guess my point is that BC pills are just kind of a daily item for women who choose to take them, kind of like having your keys, phone, chapstick, wallet, etc. on you. If she was taking a brand that you take daily (which most were back at that time), it makes sense that she'd automatically have it on her, even if she had planned to commit suicide. More than likely she would have had to consciously remove it from her routine if she had realized she really wouldn't need it with those plans, and that would just be outright odd. Also, on a funny note, hers was probably found in her bag, but I've even known girls to store it in their cars so others don't find it. Who knows. By the way, I really don't have a direction I'm leaning in this case, so this is all just devil's advocate/food for thought.

I don't think the birth control was brought up as evidence that she was driving to NH for a romantic rendezvous but rather to debunk the rumor that she was pregnant at the time of her disappearance.

 

[Steleheart]

I don't necessarily think that Maura's carrying birth control around in the car is an indication of anything. I don't believe it means she meant to use it with somebody. Not to give a birds and the bees lesson, but this is germane to those who don't know (and I don't mean this in a patronizing tone, just to be helpful): women take birth control pills daily for a given time period (different for different types), not just on the days that they plan to have sex. These pills work by adjusting your hormones throughout the month, so you need to take them as scheduled, even if you're not going to have sex for a while.

I guess my point is that BC pills are just kind of a daily item for women who choose to take them, kind of like having your keys, phone, chapstick, wallet, etc. on you. If she was taking a brand that you take daily (which most were back at that time), it makes sense that she'd automatically have it on her, even if she had planned to commit suicide. More than likely she would have had to consciously remove it from her routine if she had realized she really wouldn't need it with those plans, and that would just be outright odd. Also, on a funny note, hers was probably found in her bag, but I've even known girls to store it in their cars so others don't find it. Who knows. By the way, I really don't have a direction I'm leaning in this case, so this is all just devil's advocate/food for thought.

Being a dude I shouldn't even speak on this, but women I have known, even when they weren't in a relationship, kept up their routine just because it was necessary if they wanted to be protected. Others needed it to help regulate irregular cycles.
It's not a like condom that you can use or not use AFAIK.
It seems to me that it takes a cycle to be effective and it takes a cycle to be fertile after you stop.
I just can't see that as any indication of anything let alone some kind of plan.
I don't know.
I said I'm a dude so don't slam me, LOL

LOL

 

[xjd]

I don't necessarily think that Maura's carrying birth control around in the car is an indication of anything. I don't believe it means she meant to use it with somebody. Not to give a birds and the bees lesson, but this is germane to those who don't know (and I don't mean this in a patronizing tone, just to be helpful): women take birth control pills daily for a given time period (different for different types), not just on the days that they plan to have sex. These pills work by adjusting your hormones throughout the month, so you need to take them as scheduled, even if you're not going to have sex for a while.

I guess my point is that BC pills are just kind of a daily item for women who choose to take them, kind of like having your keys, phone, chapstick, wallet, etc. on you. If she was taking a brand that you take daily (which most were back at that time), it makes sense that she'd automatically have it on her, even if she had planned to commit suicide. More than likely she would have had to consciously remove it from her routine if she had realized she really wouldn't need it with those plans, and that would just be outright odd. Also, on a funny note, hers was probably found in her bag, but I've even known girls to store it in their cars so others don't find it. Who knows. By the way, I really don't have a direction I'm leaning in this case, so this is all just devil's advocate/food for thought.

i think what most people are questioning is not only "was she pregnant" but also, why didn't she take the pills with her when she left the accident? she took her purse, keys, wallet, and possibly a back pack.

 

[Reno]

I don't think the birth control was brought up as evidence that she was driving to NH for a romantic rendezvous but rather to debunk the rumor that she was pregnant at the time of her disappearance.

I'll add to this, because my post on 67 discussed the BC angle in context of its "primary, traditional" use - pregnancy prevention in context of MMs trip. But I should clarify I don't endorse it, just reasoning for the context. Put another way, it's how I analyze more wide-range theories by taking them at face value, e.g. passenger, stowaway, saboteur, fleeing to CA. I get BC was both daily then (how many sitcoms were made about morning after, and then "uh oh, I missed a pill 2 wks ago!" with hilarity ensuing...) and has significant non-reproductive healthcare applications, e.g. hormone regulation, cycle control, etc. But if I covered it all, my posts would be even more TLDR than they already are! My bottom line on the BC is the same as goldie's - I think its inclusion was far more ordinary than occasionally insinuated. The really interesting question is xjd's: why she left it...because other evidence suggests post-accident preparations. I think only a woman who has used BC like that for any/all those reasons would have the necessary insight.