NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #13

[bluesneakers]

It's really interesting reading the posts about the interest of males in this case. I wonder if part of it is due to the "Maura is still alive" being a theory? And not "She's being held" but she's living a new life? So these guys don't feel like they are obsessing over a dead girl, but over someone who could still be alive? I also wonder if Maura being a pretty girl, but in an attainable way, plays a role too?

I think so, and that was the feeling I got when Renner went to Quebec.

 

[Fireweed]

Yeah until that podcast, I had no idea that head and shoulders was a shampoo for men. I thought it was for both genders who had dandruff, but I guess these men do not know that women can get dandruff too.

Of course women use dandruff shampoo, and I could have told them that when a young woman uses a dandruff shampoo, that she more likely than not alternates it with a froo-froo shampoo.

But I am just a female the same age as Maura so what could I possibly know about any of this?

The best one to me is the men who think that Maura was promiscuous when we only have real evidence that Maura slept with two men total in her entire life. I guess he was not sleeping with any of them so she must just be a big ole disgusting *advertiser censored* anyway, right?

 

[bluesneakers]

Yeah until that podcast, I had no idea that head and shoulders was a shampoo for men. I thought it was for both genders who had dandruff, but I guess these men do not know that women can get dandruff too.

Of course women use dandruff shampoo, and I could have told them that when a young woman uses a dandruff shampoo, that she more likely than not alternates it with a froo-froo shampoo.

But I am just a female the same age as Maura so what could I possibly know about any of this?

The best one to me is the men who think that Maura was promiscuous when we only have real evidence that Maura slept with two men total in her entire life. I guess he was not sleeping with any of them so she must just be a big ole disgusting *advertiser censored* anyway, right?

I was told it's sexist to suggest women google pregnancy facts just because they're women.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

I was told it's sexist to suggest women google pregnancy facts just because they're women.

Men Explain Things To Me: True Crime Edition :facepalm:

 

[Fireweed]

My fave is "Maura left her birth control pills behind, thus she was suicidal".

Or maybe she was sick of men and their crap and was not planning on having sex for a while. Or maybe she thought birth control pills were only for when you were in a serious, monogamous relationship and she was not interested in having one for a long time yet.

But the middle aged males all decided that not taking your birth control with you is a sign you just don't want to live anymore. Well maybe to them a woman deciding she is not sexually available anymore is akin to death or something.

Once again: I am the same age as Maura and have had boyfriends and have taken birth control pills. Whenever I broke up with a boyfriend, I ceased to take my birth control pills. I was not suicidal; I was simply not planning on having unprotected sex for at least another year (whenever the next relationship became monogamous and serious enough to just use the pill). Women do not pay for pills and deal with the hassle of taking a daily pill (that messes with your hormones) unless they have to.

 

[Fireweed]

Also, please PLEASE stop referring to Maura as a teenage girl or just simply a girl. She was 21. She was grown. There is so much sexism in this case it distracts from what really happened. How can we ever figure it out when the loudest group of men shouts down reason, gets their egos hurt and then can't have productive discussion?

Thank you for letting me vent here.

You nailed it.

 

[Tarik]

I'd like to believe Smith knows what he's talking about, since he knows the lay of the land up there, but a part of me suspects his motivation for needling local authorities has more to do with his bruised ego over no longer being among their ranks than any real evidence pointing toward police involvement.

p.s.
Is it premature to start petitioning for a Fireweed/Lolacat podcast?

If a crash happened 15 miles from your house and the person involved went missing for over 10 years, wouldn't you want to find out what happened?

 

[Pettibon Junction]

If a crash happened 15 miles from your house and the person involved went missing for over 10 years, wouldn't you want to find out what happened?

Of course, but not at the cost of my career and my marriage. Besides, we've had two hours of podcasts and about a decade's worth of combative messageboard posts from the guy and he has yet to get to the point. Personally, I'm not so sure he has one.

 

[Tarik]

Of course, but not at the cost of my career and my marriage. Besides, we've had two hours of podcasts and about a decade's worth of combative messageboard posts from the guy and he has yet to get to the point. Personally, I'm not so sure he has one.

Well some people are just incredibly passionnate. This is not a case that can be solved overnight, it's arguably one of the trickiest missing person cases in the US, hence why it is getting so much publicity.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

Do you really view John Smith - a private citizen acting in zero official capacity - taking time out of his busy schedule of cryptic messageboard trolling to loiter on a residential street with a loaded gun on his hip, harassing homeowners with half-baked accident reconstructions and accusing them of withholding information as the behavior of a man who is merely "passionate?"

I'm not trying to be contentious, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Tarik]

Do you really view John Smith - a private citizen acting in zero official capacity - taking time out of his busy schedule of cryptic messageboard trolling to loiter on a residential street with a loaded gun on his hip, harassing homeowners with half-baked accident reconstructions and accusing them of withholding information as the behavior of a man who is merely "passionate?"

I'm not trying to be contentious, I'm genuinely curious.

That's just your personal opinion not supported by concrete evidence but based on what he said on the podcast I personally am inclined to believe him. I'm not saying his opinions are the absolute truth but most of them make sense and add up. He debunked many theories that were completely false (Maura's car hitting a tree, for instance), he asked the right questions and he's already answered back to his accusators multiple times. Oh and Fred Murray, who has not exactly been very open to the locals in NH since 2004, trusts him completely. That should tell you something.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

That's just your personal opinion not supported by concrete evidence but based on what he said on the podcast I personally am inclined to believe him. I'm not saying his opinions are the absolute truth but most of them make sense and add up. He debunked many theories that were completely false (Maura's car hitting a tree, for instance), he asked the right questions and he's already answered back to his accusators multiple times. Oh and Fred Murray, who has not exactly been very open to the locals in NH since 2004, trusts him completely. That should tell you something.

My main problem with John Smith is that after a decade of pontificating, he hasn't actually said what he believes happened other than to suggest some big, overarching state police conspiracy. Do you know whether he was actually hired by Fred or anyone else in the Murray family? I know they hired John Healy, who did extensive research and developed a theory and POI pretty early on but as far as I know, they haven't hired anyone else. Further, I don't see Smith listed as having an active PI license in the state of New Hampshire so as far as I can tell (and this is just one man's opinion), he's merely a local kook who injected himself into the investigation and gained the confidence of a grieving old man.

 

[Fireweed]

At this point Fred is willing to listen to what a "psychic" has to say, and they are the biggest frauds to ever inject themselves into these cases and take advantage of the desperate. Fred is desperate and LE has given him no answer. Now a man comes along 12 years later and claims to know things LE doesn't know, and also offers Fred an explanation for LE's incompetence ("it's a conspiracy") and of course Fred is going to fall for it.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

I will say this for John Smith: he has been a VERY vocal advocate for investigating Maura's disappearance as a possible abduction and homicide, well after that scenario was deemed "impossible" by some of the other self-appointed experts. That counts for something.

 

[Tarik]

My main problem with John Smith is that after a decade of pontificating, he hasn't actually said what he believes happened other than to suggest some big, overarching state police conspiracy. Do you know whether he was actually hired by Fred or anyone else in the Murray family? I know they hired John Healy, who did extensive research and developed a theory and POI pretty early on but as far as I know, they haven't hired anyone else. Further, I don't see Smith listed as having an active PI license in the state of New Hampshire so as far as I can tell (and this is just one man's opinion), he's merely a local kook who injected himself into the investigation and gained the confidence of a grieving old man.

I agree with you that he has developed no real theories apart from the police conspiracy which is not impossible but very far-fetched I think. As for the family hiring him, according to John Smith he offered his help to Fred first but then LE told Smith to back off. Finally, he somehow managed to convince LE to let him look at the case, he called Fred back in the beginning of March 2004 and he has been investigating the case ever since.

 

[Fireweed]

I will say this for John Smith: he has been a VERY vocal advocate for investigating Maura's disappearance as a possible abduction and homicide, well after that scenario was deemed "impossible" by some of the other self-appointed experts. That counts for something.

That is all well and good but I think the problem with this is that when you tangle that advocacy up with hints at a conspiracy theory, it just discredits the whole thing and then people take it less seriously instead of more seriously as was intended.

 

[Tarik]

At this point Fred is willing to listen to what a "psychic" has to say, and they are the biggest frauds to ever inject themselves into these cases and take advantage of the desperate. Fred is desperate and LE has given him no answer. Now a man comes along 12 years later and claims to know things LE doesn't know, and also offers Fred an explanation for LE's incompetence ("it's a conspiracy") and of course Fred is going to fall for it.

That's a bit of a simplistic explanation, don't you think? Even after 12 years, I don't think Fred Murray is naive to the point of blindly believing whatever comes his way even if he could be desperate at this point. I wasn't there so I can't comment on that too much but Fred probably was given good reasons to believe both John Smith and his psychic friend.

 

[Lolacat]

Never underestimate the power of grief. I work in psychiatry and I can tell you that the only patients I ever worked with who had no history of any mental health issues prior to their admission were people who had lost children and subsequently had a breakdown. The grief of it literally sent them mad. These people were the most vulnerable, desperate people I ever worked with and they broke my heart on a daily basis. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if any of them reached to out to even the most unreliable person if they had even a sliver of hope that they could provide an answer. Cold reading is also a real phenomenon. I can actually do it pretty well myself, having worked in the area of mental health and I have zero psychic abilities whatsoever.

 

[Fireweed]

That's a bit of a simplistic explanation, don't you think? Even after 12 years, I don't think Fred Murray is naive to the point of blindly believing whatever comes his way even if he could be desperate at this point. I wasn't there so I can't comment on that too much but Fred probably was given good reasons to believe both John Smith and his psychic friend.

I do not think he is naive and I do not think he is blindly believing anything. I never used those words. I said I think he is desperate (which anyone in his position would be). Desperate people are far more vulnerable in these situations, and actually I think the Fred worked very hard over the years to not be a vulnerable person, but after 12 years and no help from LE, it much easier for a man in his position to see someone like Smith as their last hope.

 

[drjones]

"Desperate people are far more vulnerable in these situations"

that is precisely what makes these "psychics" so despicable.